Why is Cordero so afraid of his fastball?

[danzig6767]

I've noticed in nearly every meltdown by Cordero,he almost never gets hurt from his fastball,it's the slider.I understand the slider is his out pitch,but when he gets in trouble,it by throwing slider after slider that's either walking guys or getting hit.For a guy who throws 95-97 and rarely grooves one over the center of the plate,he only seems willing to throw it to get a strike or two early in the count or every once in awhile try to sneak on by if he has two strikes.

 

Even when he's not able to throw his slider for a strike and hitters are laying off it,he still will rarely use the gas he has.Today wasn't the first time he hot himself into a mess by continuing to throw sliders that hitters aren't swinging at even though no hitters are getting good swings at his fastball.I'm no pitching coach,i just have noticed this with Cordero so much the last month or more when he gets himself into trouble and find myself baffled that a guy who throws so hard and with command of it,looks petrified to throw it if anyone is on base.

 

I certainly don't thinks hitters have figured out his stuff,but more and more they are just taking pitches because Cordero is throwing the slider so often and it's a ball much more than a strike.Maybe i'm way off base because his slider can be devastating as evidenced by yesterdays game,i just get frustrated watching nearly all his big innings unfold the same way.Pound beautiful 95-96 fastballs on the corners that hitters aren't coming close to making good contact on early in the count,then having two strikes to one batter after another and that fastball on the outside corner sits in his pocket as the other team keeps getting hits or walks off the steady diet of mediocre or bad sliders.I end up yelling at the TV saying throw your damn fastball,it's a great pitch.http://static.yuku.com/v2//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/mad.gif

[Nearsighted Views]

A breaking ball is useless if you can't throw it for a strike. Turnbow has made this evident. Hitters have learned to sit on the fastball with Cordero and have stopped swinging at the ball out of the zone.

 

If he could drop one in there, his fastball would seem like it's coming at 102. There is no such thing as an unhittable fastball where you can't throw a second pitch for a strike.

[kgbaseball]

Cordero is absolutely unhittable when he throws his slider just off the outside corner to righties. When he doesn't, hitters can watch 4 straight balls and walk to first, or wait for the fastball, something that's easy to do if you're expecting it, even if it's 94-97. We were talking today about how nice it would be for him to add a changeup or 2 seam fastball; it might give the hitters something else to look at and expect instead of the slider. I think Turnbow recently added an 80mph changeup to his repertoire, although he rarely uses it. It's just nice to have that extra pitch.

[danzig6767]

They aren't sitting on Cordero's fastball though,it rarely ever hurts him like his slider does.I'm not basing this just off todays game,it's happened in almost every outing that he struggles.Guys are sitting on his slider if he gets ahead in the count because that's almost entirely what he throws,it's why batters are always late on the fastball if he actually throws it.

 

Cordero isn't like Turnbow,he's the reverse Turnbow.Derrick throws mostly fastballs and here and there throws the slider to try and keep hitters off balance.Cordero throws mostly sliders,especially if he gets a first pitch strike and then tries to keep hitters off balance by throwing his fastball.If he had a 91-92mph fastball and a nasty slider,i'd understand why Cordero would be so nervous to throw it.He throws 95-97 and generally is able to keep it on the corner,but he uses his heat less than any hard thrower that i can remember.

 

I'm certainly not saying he shouldn't throw that slider,it just in my amateur opinion seems he's to reliant on it and for whatever reason doesn't trust his great fastball enough even though it's the slider 75% that's causing him to get in trouble.If i'm a hitter and i'm in a 0-2/1-2/2-2 count,i'd be totally focused on slider only and would be right almost every time.

[pitchleague]

Weren't all four balls to Rollins (I think it was him?) in the 9th fastballs? They sure seemed too high and outside-ish to be sliders

[Fatter than Joey]

PL is right --

 

That looked like an "unintentional-intentional walk" -- all fastballs out of the zone. Philly hitters take a very patient approach to hitting it seems.

[IIAY]

This is my biggest pet peeve with CoCo. He had a 3-run lead with two outs in the ninth and no one on base. What purpose does the "unintentional intentional" walk serve? I don't care who you are, you have to throw strikes in that situation. I don't care if he would rather face Iguchi than Rollins. Let Rollins earn his was on base. If he hits one out, you still have a 2-run lead with no one on.

[Fatter than Joey]

What purpose does the "unintentional intentional" walk serve?

 

None -- I was just commenting -- that is what it looked like to me -- either CoCo was missing badly, or didn't want to pitch to Rollins -- I don't think it was a strategy thing.

[dlk9s]

Once again, Cordero goes with the old "it's not the first time and won't be the last" style quote.

 

This time, it was, "It was bad but it's over. That's the way it is. Nobody's perfect. I haven't seen one guy be perfect the whole season."

 

No, Francisco, nobody is perfect, but we do kind of expect you not to blow multi-run leads with regularity.

 

Even though Braun makes an error every other game and can't seem to drive in runs late in games, at least he comes right out and says it's a problem.

[Samurai Bucky]

Perhaps he is throwing more offspeed stuff because he had thrown the two previous nights. On Friday, he was lights out throwing hard and getting his slider in for strikes. Saturday, he struggled with his control. I didn't want to see Sunday's game, but it had to be absolutely terrible.

 

Could it be he is just tiring more quickly and can't pitch three days in a row?

[MJLiverock]

I was at the game but couldn't see the bullpen from our seats. Did CoCo even get a chance to warm up before Wise got yanked? Not that I'm complaining about Wise getting yanked, I was glad Ned had the quick hook for him when it was apparent Matt couldn't throw a strike that wasn't a BP pitch.

[theavrock]

Cordero warmed up very quickly. I was watching and didnt see him throw too many pitches. They actually had Spurling up when Wise was in trouble before giving up the home run.

[davego]

Ive thought the same thing; use the fastball more please. I understand that the slider has to get over, but thowing that fastball at 94-96 is still a tough pitch for most hitters, even if they know it's coming. That said...I'm sure I'd be all over him for giving up a homerun too.

 

Maybe not having to use CoCo in 3 straight games would also help.

 

My mind is wandering now,but if Spurling was used in place of Matt...

[sheethead]

My mind is wandering now,but if Spurling was used in place of Matt...

... the Brewers would have won the game.

[bjkrautk]

Ive thought the same thing; use the fastball more please. I understand that the slider has to get over, but thowing that fastball at 94-96 is still a tough pitch for most hitters, even if they know it's coming. That said...I'm sure I'd be all over him for giving up a homerun too.

 

Maybe not having to use CoCo in 3 straight games would also help.

 

My mind is wandering now,but if Spurling was used in place of Matt...

My problem with Cordero is that he seems too predictable for a 2-pitch pitcher. Whenever he gets 2 strikes, he starts throwing the slider on the edges of the strike zone almost exclusively until the count is full. Additionally, his refusal to 'give in' leads to walking guys a bit too often for my liking....which can lead to stressful innings if a second man reaches base. (Note: I'm not just talking about Sunday's game, but a number of games in the first few months of the season that he managed to pitch his way out of.)

 

For a guy with his stuff, he nibbles too much for my liking. I can't remember the last time I've seen a closer pitch around someone the way CoCo did Rollins yesterday. That isn't to say that he hasn't done a great job this year (he is leading the NL in saves, after all), just that I don't see him on the same tier as guys like Hoffman, Gagne, and Rivera in their primes. I don't like it when a closer starts gathering base-runners.

[strawbossisevil]

Do Cordero's recent struggles make him more affordable in the offseason? Maybe that could be a silver lining from the last few games he's blown. It might bring him back into our price range. Think about it this way. The market for sub 3 ERA closers is big time bucks, but what about the guys with an ERA over 3? There seem to be plenty of relievers out there who could put up a similar ERA.

 

If he continues to have an ERA in the low to mid threes, I could see him actually falling back into Milwaukee's price range.

[danzig6767]

Ive thought the same thing; use the fastball more please. I understand that the slider has to get over, but thowing that fastball at 94-96 is still a tough pitch for most hitters, even if they know it's coming. That said...I'm sure I'd be all over him for giving up a homerun too.

 

Maybe not having to use CoCo in 3 straight games would also help.

 

My mind is wandering now,but if Spurling was used in place of Matt...

My problem with Cordero is that he seems too predictable for a 2-pitch pitcher. Whenever he gets 2 strikes, he starts throwing the slider on the edges of the strike zone almost exclusively until the count is full. Additionally, his refusal to 'give in' leads to walking guys a bit too often for my liking....which can lead to stressful innings if a second man reaches base. (Note: I'm not just talking about Sunday's game, but a number of games in the first few months of the season that he managed to pitch his way out of.)

 

For a guy with his stuff, he nibbles too much for my liking. I can't remember the last time I've seen a closer pitch around someone the way CoCo did Rollins yesterday. That isn't to say that he hasn't done a great job this year (he is leading the NL in saves, after all), just that I don't see him on the same tier as guys like Hoffman, Gagne, and Rivera in their primes. I don't like it when a closer starts gathering base-runners.

 

That also sums up what i was getting at in the thread,even though he's a two pitch pitcher,he's more predictable than your normal two pitch closer.Get ahead with his fastball,then it's one slider after another off the plate regardless if they are swinging at it or if he has command of it.Seems like on those days it's not working,he'd get more swings at the slider if he mixed in more fastballs.

Trevor Hoffman throws 86-87 and even he doesn't seem to abandon his fastball as often as Cordero does when ahead in the count.Hitters are looking slider and when Cordero throws his fastball anywhere except right down the middle,it's very rare to see one get hit hard.Just wish he'd use it more.