Prince's "It's poor for the fans to boo us" comment (merged with "Prince blasts fans")

[mpepy05]

I also don't like booing because I think, for the most part, it makes the fan base look bad. Yeah, Boston fans boo all the time, but does anyone outside of New England have a high opinion of Red Sox fans

Yeah, but couldn't the argument be made that not booing makes the fan base look apathetic?

I suppose it could...but the fact that there are 30-40K there on a weeknight might help refute that argument.

I don't watch a lot of Cardinals games unless they're playing us, but I know their fans have a reputation of being good fans that stick behind their players. I would guess (I don't know) that they probably don't boo a lot, and I don't think anyone would describe them as apathetic.

 

No, the cardinals fans just enjoy clapping their hands on queue.

 

[mpepy05]

Therefore, I'll cheer and boo any place and time I deem it necessary.

 

What a lovely disposition.

And now that I think about it, it would be hard to do my job with a crowd of people of booing me all the time. Cus good lord, I certainly ain't perfect.

 

[pretendastronaut]

astronaut, thank you. one of the best posts i've read and exactly the way I feel too.

 

Thanks man, I appreciate that.

 

If they improve by 5 games next year and miss the playoffs are we supposed to be content with that? With the core of talent they have...no way.

 

There is a mile of difference between content and support. What if that happens, what would booing accomplish? What if they win 90+ and still miss the playoffs?

[crewcrazy]

We should boo whenever our pitchers give up a single...do your job, you bum!

[valpocrewsader]

I don't watch a lot of Cardinals games unless they're playing us, but I know their fans have a reputation of being good fans that stick behind their players. I would guess (I don't know) that they probably don't boo a lot, and I don't think anyone would describe them as apathetic.

See, in my mind there's just no way you can compare the folks sitting in the stands of Busch vs. those sitting in the stands at Miller Park.

 

Cardinals 1983 - present

-------------------------

East and Central Division Titles: 85, 87, 96, 00, 01, 02, 04, 05, 06

League Pennants: 85, 87, 04, 06

 

Brewers 1983 - present

-------------------------

East and Central Division Titles: NULL

League Pennants: NULL

 

Sure, if I'm sittin in Busch as a diehard Cardinals fans and it looks like an opportunity to sneak into the playoffs is slipping away in one of the final games, you know what?, I -- and probably a lot of other boo birds -- can accpet the fact that there's been a lot to be happy about in recent years, no big deal. Heck, just one playoff appearance in the last 15 years would probably be enough to keep my mouth shut. But 25 years of failure? And Prince wants us to bow down because 2007 is more exciting than 2005 just because our division happens to be laughably and embarassingly awful? No way. The misery, failure, and "same old Brewers" results cropped up once again this year -- there could've been A LOT more boos these last two days than there have been. I guarantee other cities, in the exact same situations concerning game play and the context of similar team history, would've behaved much, much worse.

[mpepy05]

So the fans have the right to voice the way they feel by booing, but the players don't have the right to feel slighted by it, much less voice their opinions on the booing, lest they turn the fans away?

Yes, they have every right to offend their fan base. Just doesn't seem like a wise business decision.

[gregmag]

So the fans have the right to voice the way they feel by booing, but the players don't have the right to feel slighted by it, much less voice their opinions on the booing, lest they turn the fans away?

Yes, they have every right to offend their fan base. Just doesn't seem like a wise business decision.

Also, we aren't talking about "rights" at all. We're talking about justifications. To me, the question of justification for fans' booing is kind of pointless. Crowds at games number in the tens of thousands. Crowds are going to do what they're going to do. That's a matter of mass psychology, not some reasoned analysis of the pros and cons of booing. But the players are individuals who are acting and speaking individually. They can make reasoned decisions about what they say, and in that context the question of justification seems to me more relevant. I wouldn't mind if a player said "I wish the fans wouldn't boo. It makes me feel bad" (or "it makes it hard to do my job," or whatever). That's honest and nonjudgmental. But to presume to pass judgment on the behavior of a group of 30,000 people whom you're being very well paid to entertain? I don't see a good justification for that.

 

Greg.

[Patrick425]

I understand the whole "not booing" stance. I can't remember the last time I actually booed. Sometimes the booing goes too far and makes me cringe. But I think it's absolutely necessary for a crowd to show it's disapproval in certain situations.

However, even though I don't partake in the booing, I have fundamental problem with millionaire ball players (I know, Fielder does not make over a million, but he will make much more than that in the near future) telling the paying fan that they shouldn't boo. Oh gee, please don't boo us, it hurts our feelings. Give me a break! This isn't little league or high school ball.

I'm having a hard time even believing there is a debate about this. Fan's shouldn't boo anymore? We should just all pay our money and go "Yay team!" regardless of the situation?

There is a mile of difference between content and support.

So, it's ok not to be content with a team, but just don't let them know about it because they already feel bad enough and they need our love? Brother..

[Invader3K]

Hmmm...well, I was only two years old when the Brewers went to the World Series, but I have a sneaking suspicion that fans at County Stadium booed the Brewers plenty of times during poor play.

[pitchleague]

is it okay to boo a player if they pull a "Randy Moss 'moons' the crowd" kind of a move? What if he's on the HOME team? Is THAT okay?

[PKBadger]

Turnbow certainly didn't help himself by having an outing reminiscent of Rick Vaughn's first appearance for Cleveland.

 

To throw a breaking pitch that Damian has to reach ABOVE HIS HEAD to catch is unacceptable, in my book, and I think falls into Simmons' criteria of unexcusable shoddy play.

[BrewCityUnit]

Maybe if you get so upset you feel the need to scream and boo at a man during a game that means little to nothing in the grand scheme of life, you should find something else to do with your time and money.

 

Please don't tell me what I should do with my time and money. Sports and the Brewers do mean a lot in the grand scheme of my life......does that make me a bad person?

 

My life importances

 

1) Friends and Family

2) Sports

 

When my sports teams are doing well, I am happy.....when they are not, I am not very happy.

[Bruce Ciskie]

I booed the Packers off Lambeau Field at halftime of that playoff loss to Atlanta. I drove 300+ miles to watch them not give a crap in the first half. I had every right to boo.

 

They gave a crap in the second half, but had given up too much ground and lost too many players to make a serious comeback. So I didn't boo them in the second half. Granted, it was too little too late, but it was an effort.

 

As for booing this sorry garbage they're supposed to call "baseball", I think Prince should be more worried about the blown opportunities (and blown defensive plays) of the last 18 innings or so of Brewers baseball. I love the guy, but he's flat-wrong on this one.

[dannyjnoonan]

Would you guys boo your son or daughter at one of their high school sporting events if they made a major error? Or were not hustling enough? Obviously I don't love Derek Turnbow in totally the same way that I'd love my children. He's more like a cousin. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif I seriously want him to play well just like I'd want my kids to play well. So I wouldn't boo either.

 

Or, if you play on a softball team or in a bowling league or whatever, would you boo a team mate that wasn't performing up to your expectations? I wouldn't. I'd encourage them. I'm obviously not on the Brewers, but they're still my team. Don't you guys think of them as your team? Don't you want your team to play well?

 

I'm not trying to pick, I really just don't get the psychology of booing. I can't wrap my head around why you guys would want to harm people that you supposedly like and want to win. I don't get why bad play makes you want to see worse play.

[DougJones43]

It would be one thing if Prince came out against all booing. But to say that Red Sox and Yankees fans have the right to boo, but Brewers fans don't is just ridiculous. I like Prince, but between all of his blow-ups on the field, acting like everything is "him against the world," and now saying something stupid like this? I think his big offensive season has gone to his head a little, and he should consider calming down and shutting up for awhile. He seems to basically be saying that because this team has performed better than some of the atrocious Brewer teams of the past 15 years, the fans should be satisfied. Well, last time I checked, this team hasn't even surpassed the win total of the 2005 Brewers. Some of these guys are getting a little too big for their britches, considering they're barely above .500 right now. They've become a somewhat unlikable group over the past few months, in my opinion. Whining about umpires. Getting into beanball wars. Ejections and suspensions. Whining about the fans. Ed Montague was right when he said it's time for these guys to look in the mirror to find their problems.

 

If anything, this team hasn't earned the right to criticize a fanbase who has shown up faithfully to watch one of baseball's biggest choke-jobs in recent history.

[pretendastronaut]

is it okay to boo a player if they pull a "Randy Moss 'moons' the crowd" kind of a move? What if he's on the HOME team? Is THAT okay?

 

Those are vastly different scenarios, apple and oranges. I think some people are assuming the argument is there is never a place for booing, and that's not the case, at least in my arguement. I'd have booed Moss in that moment for sure and I'll boo someone like Sheffield every time I see him on the field. I'd boo Prince if he flipped off the fans. But that has nothing to do with performance or execution, which is what we've been booing.

I booed the Packers off Lambeau Field at halftime of that playoff loss to Atlanta. I drove 300+ miles to watch them not give a crap in the first half. I had every right to boo.

 

I never understand this one' date=' what would possibly make you think that you care more about that game than they do? Because you drove a long way and paid money? These guys have spent their entire lives trying to get to this point and beyond, most of them dedicating countless more hours to perfecting their skill than any of us will in our lifetimes, and yet you think they're going into that situation and not caring?

It would be one thing if Prince came out against all booing. But to say that Red Sox and Yankees fans have the right to boo, but Brewers fans don't is just ridiculous. I like Prince, but between all of his blow-ups on the field, acting like everything is "him against the world," and now saying something stupid like this? I think his big offensive season has gone to his head a little, and he should consider calming down and shutting up for awhile. He seems to basically be saying that because this team has performed better than some of the atrocious Brewer teams of the past 15 years, the fans should be satisfied. Well, last time I checked, this team hasn't even surpassed the win total of the 2005 Brewers. Some of these guys are getting a little too big for their britches, considering they're barely above .500 right now. They've become a somewhat unlikable group over the past few months, in my opinion. Whining about umpires. Getting into beanball wars. Ejections and suspensions. Whining about the fans. Ed Montague was right when he said it's time for these guys to look in the mirror to find their problems.

 

If anything, this team hasn't earned the right to criticize a fanbase who has shown up faithfully to watch one of baseball's biggest choke-jobs in recent history.

 

I'm guessing that Prince didn't choose the best words to get his point across honestly (and I actually didn't see a link to this article anywhere, I'd be curious to read his full comments if someone has it). On face value its a strange comment, I agree, but I think the root of the point is that we have been a good crowd for the most part this year (and for several years) but now this year, we've had a taste and we're pretty quick to lay into these guys. I've been at games this year that I just couldn't believe we were booing our guys. Mistakes happen, it sucks, deal with it, don't degrade your team like that. The record may not end up a vast improvement, but you can't deny this season has been just as much fun as disappointment.

Like I said earlier, I think a lot of people are only focusing on what they didn't do, and not acknowledging what they have done. Yes, it's extremely frustrating to see how this year has turned out, and I'm as disappointed as the next guy, but I know it was an exciting year and I'm even more excited for next year, and I certainly expect better next year. I don't think they've become an unlikeable group lately. For one, there were grounds to question the umpires, but to the best of my knowledge no player publically complained about the umps. The beanballs are part of baseball, that's nothing new in the least, and even still those were ordered to the players. I think to many of us forget that these are extremely young kids, that we're expecting to play like seasoned vets, maybe because we're so hungry ourselves for victory.

[lumberrule]

If Prince doesnt want the fans to boo when the team plays poorly, perhaps the fans should stop cheering when he hits a home run. In fact, lets have the fans just sit on their hands the entire game, raising them only to flag down the beer vender.

 

It works both ways, Prince.

[PeaveyFury]

While I agree that booing is generally counter productive and pointless, to suggest that the Brewer fans having to earn the right to boo because they 'haven't seen any winning baseball' is so backwards it's absurd. After 15 years without a winning season at 25 without a playoff appearance, the BREWERS have to earn the right not to be booed.

 

I just think it should be reserved to lack of effort/bad attitude/stupidity, rather than simply not succeeding like it has been for much of the booing this year, unfortunately.

[DougJones43]

but you can't deny this season has been just as much fun as disappointment.

I can, and will, deny that. April was fun. Since then, I've watched bad pitching, embarassing defense, blown leads, a manager that behaves like an orangutan, a squandered division lead, and a 65-69 record. That's not my idea of fun.

 

 

The beanballs are part of baseball, that's nothing new in the least

In 1-run pennant chase games?

[PKBadger]

One thing I wanted to add....didn't Prince get a standing O after his horrible start last year, where he didn't get a hit for like the first week? I guess those were different fans.

[pretendastronaut]

but you can't deny this season has been just as much fun as disappointment.

I can, and will, deny that. April was fun. Since then, I've watched bad pitching, embarassing defense, blown leads, a manager that behaves like an orangutan, a squandered division lead, and a 65-69 record. That's not my idea of fun.

Well that's your perogative, but I've still had plenty of moments to cheer this year as well and I've still enjoyed the season. If you can't look beyond the dissapointments and also find the positives, then that's your call.

 

 

The beanballs are part of baseball, that's nothing new in the least

In 1-run pennant chase games?

I'm not defending the move or the timing of the move itself, that's a completely different issue, I'm just saying, it was being used in this instance to start putting an ugly label on the team, as if they're a nasty team that throws at people. All I'm saying is throwing at someone in retaliation has long since been commonplace in baseball, so us partaking in it, isn't us becoming some dark team.

[pretendastronaut]

One thing I wanted to add....didn't Prince get a standing O after his horrible start last year, where he didn't get a hit for like the first week? I guess those were different fans.

 

Well maybe they were, because that's support.

I think there have been plenty of times when several Brewer players have acknowledged that we're great fans, and that they love the energy here. We shouldn't take these comments about a specific event to translate to an attitude overall.

[xisxisxis]

After 15 years without a winning season at 25 without a playoff appearance, the BREWERS have to earn the right not to be booed.

 

I would really be interested to know if anyone in the organization has pulled him aside and nicely pointed out what the fans of this team have gone through over the last 25 years. Did they also point out to him that the nice stadium he comes to work in cost the taxpayers of the state/5 counties over $400 million dollars and the revenues from the games he get's paid to play help pay his salary? I personally only boo if the player is not showing the effort, but I certainly am not going to tell someone else who worked hard to pay for a ticket to the game he/she has to act in a certain way as long as they aren't a nuisance to me or anyone else. Sounds like Prince and the rest of the team need a little dose of growin' up.

[DougJones43]

If you can't look beyond the dissapointments and also find the positives, then that's your call.

Of course there are positives to take from the season. That's not what you said. You said "you can't deny this season has been just as much fun as disappointment." Gallardo, Fielder, Braun, and many other things were positives. In the end though, I think the disappointments have outweighed the fun.

 

 

All I'm saying is throwing at someone in retaliation has long since been commonplace in baseball, so us partaking in it, isn't us becoming some dark team.

I think prioritizing petty retaliation over winning a pennant-chase game is a repugnant thing to do.

[pretendastronaut]

If you can't look beyond the dissapointments and also find the positives, then that's your call.

Of course there are positives to take from the season. That's not what you said. You said "you can't deny this season has been just as much fun as disappointment." Gallardo, Fielder, Braun, and many other things were positives. In the end though, I think the disappointments have outweighed the fun.

 

I didn't say it was more fun though. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif I can see how someone can say the dissapointments out weighed the fun for them, that's fair.

I think prioritizing petty retaliation over winning a pennant-chase game is a repugnant thing to do.

 

Again, I'm not defending the move itself, I'm as much against that call as the next guy, but that wasn't a player decision and I'm only defending not labeling the team as a whole hotheads who throw at people, because of one move, that, while it shouldn't have been done at that moment, is something that is part of the life of baseball.