Textbook Bullpen Mismanagement

[Brewer Fever]

You simply can't continue to use 5+ pitchers in 5 run ballgames. Remember I'm talking about 5 pitchers before the Phillies 5-run 9th. This is not a today only trend or rant. This is a continuing pattern with Yost this season. He simply misses far too many opportunities to get through a 9 inning game using a solely a starter and a single reliever or two. Using today as a perfect example, you'll see that Suppan left the game after 83 pitches with 2 outs in the 6th and a 5 run lead. You're telling me he couldn't finish off the 6th and then go one more inning and pitch 7? To further exasperate his mistake Yost uses Shouse for the mere 1/3 of an inning he pitched finishing off Suppan's 6th. Yost then proceeds to burn through two more relievers over the course of the next 2 innings despite the fact that they pitch clean innings each and we maintain the 5 run lead. Now you can't tell me that Shouse is a 1 out only pitcher or that Villanueva and Linebrink are both incapable of going beyond 1 inning.

 

The problem with this bullpen mismanagement is two-fold. The short-term effect is a matter of mere probabilities. If you go through 6 pitchers, the chances increase that you're bound to call upon one who won't be on his game that day. You have the first three relievers pitch successfully yet you dispatch of all three of them to find out if you can find one who doesn't have it. The obvious long-term effect of this bullpen mismanagement is an overworked and ineffective bullpen. Some of these guys just are not used to getting up and throwing every or every other day.

 

As I type this, the result of finding those 1-2 relievers who didn't have it today after dispatching 3 who did has led to the Brewers using their 7th pitcher today. Now, many of you have asked for examples of Yost's incompetence with the bullpen and here you have it. Maybe this could be a thread to track this continued mismanagement. If I have time I'll dig up other games in which far too many pitchers were used in games that were well in or well out of hand.

[CportBadger]

Maybe he pulled Suppan too early, but Shouse got out of the inning. He wanted Villy to go 2 innings, but had to use Linebrink to get out of the inning, then he wanted Wise to go the 9th and he couldn't. His plan was to use 4 guys, one of which was his situational guy, and the circumstances didn't allow him to stick with his plan.

[Brewer Fever]

Darn right he pulled Suppan too early. He was in no major jam. He had thrown 83 pitches and we had a 5 run lead. And Shouse can go more than 1/3 of an inning. At most we should have used 3 pitchers. Suppan for 7, Shouse for 1 and possibly two. And if needed 1 pitcher for the ninth. Ideally Linebrink to get him back in the groove after his week off. Like I said if you force yourself to go through 5-6 pitchers you're going to come across guys who aren't effective that day.

[naivin]

Blah, blah, blah...If the pitchers do their jobs - and that is EITHER Wise or Cordero, it is a complete non issue. Suppan was not in a major jam? Maybe not, haven't we all been down that road with Suppan this season? Couple more hits, the Phillies get a couple runs and a 5 run lead becomes much smaller. Once again, the benefit of hindsight allows for completrely unwartanted criticism. Two pitchers failed to get batters out, the pitcher and the 3B commit errors (I don't care what teh scoring was), and its bullpen mismanagement. Whatever.

[Boy Jeenius]

Yep - It's a Textbook alright - knee jerk reaction. Stuff was planned just fine. Yost did not make the error on a slow roller to the mound or give up a 2 run homer, Yost did not fail to call Rowand out on a check swing when replay showed he went, Yost did not walk 2 and hit one, Yost did not let the playable ground ball roll under his glove to tie the game and on and on and on...................... The manager blew this one with bullpen mismanagement? He put 4 guys in a position to succeed, only one of them had to come thru and , but not one of them did, and somehow it's the manger's fault? I completely disagree.

[Brian the Automator]

I'm going to re-open this thread as I think the original poster makes some interesting points, but if the condescension in the replies continues, it's going to be re-locked.

[endaround]

I really can't believe he went to Parra over Spurling with Parra only having 3 days of rest since his last 90 pitch outing. Talk about setting up a pitcher to fail.

[Ennder]

I don't really agree with the original post. This is a case of the bullpen not doing its job, I think its really stretching things to try to blame this on Yost.

 

I was surprised when he yanked Suppan but given our struggles in the 6th this season, the fact we are off 2 of the next 8 days, the fact we hadn't used our MR's all that much lately and the fact we have 13 pitchers right now I don't have any problems with the bullpen usage.

[moofnelson]

I don't believe Brewer Fever was implying that Yost blew the game, he was simply using today's game as an example of how Yost mismanages his bullpen.

[brewmann04]

I too was shocked with Parra figured he go wit Spurling since the talk was saving Parra Innings and he is their Long man

[Ennder]

I still disagree with it. He used Shouse the way he should, he tried to go 2 IP with CV which was a good move, only CV stunk up the 2nd inning. He pulled Suppan a baserunner sooner than I probably would have but it certainly was defensible.

 

The things i do question is using Parra after such a long outing just 3 days ago and leaving Cordero out there for 40 pitches when he wasn't throwing strikes.

[brettac1]

Along with end, the only thing I disagree with is Parra on three days pitching the 11th. Considering he threw 90 pitches the other night and has had significant arm problems in the past, that was probably a mistake. I guess I don't see what the real benefit was of using him there, as opposed to the long-term risk.

[logan82]

I have to agree this was more of an issue with the relievers not getting the job done. I think in the first half of the season that Ned would have left Villy in there longer. I thought Villy was going to finish the game. I think if Villy would have been effective he would have left in longer and we use 2 relievers instead of 5. Yost has had a much quicker hook lately. You really can't blame him with all the 6th inning blowups by the starters earlier in the year.

[Brewer Fever]

I agree it's not Yost's fault that Wise and Cordero failed to get the job done. What you have to consider is the fact that when you rely on 6 pitchers to do the job that 3 could have done, you open up the door to realizing the odds of running into an ineffective pitcher. Instead of relying on 3 players to do their job effectively, you rely on 6. It's like playing Russina roulette. You pull the trigger 3 times with good results and probaly could have finished the game, with just 3 pulls of the trigger, yet you instead insist on pulling the trigger 6 times.

 

And again. that's not even touching on the fact that every time you pull the trigger there's wear and with more and more wear and tear the gun become more susceptible to malfunction.

[logan82]

You are really overlooking the fact that the relievers that got pulled were not exactly effective.

[NYChez]

The only mismanagement was in the 9th inning. If Suppan gave up a three-run bomb in the 6th, Yost would have been criticized for leaving him in there too long.

 

Regarding the 9th, I don't like putting Wise in a situation to "work out his problems" with a lead in the 9th inning. That was not the correct situation in which to put Wise in. I would have either used Turnbow or left Linebrink in there.

 

Coco coming off consecutive days of saves in tough one-run games is not going to work anymore. Yost needs to let Turnbow or Linebrink or somebody else be the "2nd closer" (like Francona has done with Okajima in Boston).

[Brewer Fever]

I don't believe Brewer Fever was implying that Yost blew the game, he was simply using today's game as an example of how Yost mismanages his bullpen

 

This poster speaks the truth.

[Brewer Fever]

You are really overlooking the fact that the relievers that got pulled were not exactly effective.

Absolutely not. In fact quite the opposite. The 1st 2 pitchers used in this game were very effective and both could have and should have gone longer.

[brewmann04]

I would think Lindenbrink has to move up the Chain to the 8th Spot.

[Brewer Fever]

It's August. Shouldn't our starters be extended to 110-120 pitches by now in these type of games. 1 run through 5 and 2/3 innings, 83 pitches, and a 5 run lead = bullpen time?

 

I'd love to hear from rluzinski what percentage of major league baseball games are played where one team holds a lead of 5 runs or more. It's probably an eye-opening small percentage. Games like today are where you use 1-2 pitchers, not 5 before you have even given back 1 run of a 5 run lead.

[Ennder]

I'm going ot guess Linebrink is the closer for Monday and/or Tuesday with Cordero/Turnbow getting a day or two off. I agree with the other poster that Cordero needs to be on a pretty short leash for a while, Turnbow or Linebrink should be saved to finish for him if he has problems throwing strikes in the 9th again.

[Brian the Automator]

Did you think Yost should have just let Villanueva continue to implode?

 

Has Linebrink ever been more than a 1 inning guy?

 

Should Yost have run Shouse out there to face Werth (RHP), Coste (RHP), PH for pitcher (RHP), Rollins (switch hitter), Iguchi (RHP)?... after pitching the previous 2 games?

 

I don't know... I'm on the fence as to whether Soup should have been yanked, but he gave up 3 singles and a wild pitch. It doesn't instill me with confidence. To me, the bullpen was actually well managed today, despite the results.

[brewcrew00]

Amen Brian, couldn't have put it better myself.

[RU Rah Rah]

Hindsight is famously 20/20, but I was hoping that Yost would leave Linebrink out there a little longer. Coming into the game, he had thrown a total of 42 pitches since July 24. (By contrast, Turnbow had thrown 100; Cordero had thrown 121; and even Shouse had thrown 65.) Of course, doing that might have left Ned open to criticism for wasting Linebrink's innings in a game that (apparently) was comfortably in hand, and he's been pretty much a one-inning guy all year long.

 

I guess the key was trying to sneak Wise out there to exorcise his demons, and then following him with Cordero for the third straight day. I also wasn't especially happy to see Suppan leave so early. I think you have to try to get into the seventh inning with him at least once in awhile.

[brewmann04]

I guess wveryone see it a different way but we all agree the Results Stunk