Was the Suppan signing Melvin's biggest mistake?

[adambr2]

I've made some comments over recent weeks about how disappointing Suppan is this season. Seems like the popular response I got is, "He's not that far off from his career numbers. He's been mostly as expected."

My first thoughts on this -- really? Is this it? Is this what we paid $42 million for? A guy with #4 - #5 pitcher type numbers? It just seems baffling to me, with all the good moves he has made, that Melvin would pay that much for a guy who esseentially made a big contract off the NLCS.

He isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Until the majority of the no-trade clause is lifted in 2009, we're stuck with Suppan, so no matter how bad he does, he's more or less in the rotation. He's not a spring chicken anymore, and so I don't really see him getting better. Considering his career ERA, is this all we're going to get for this $42 million? A back of the rotation #4 - #5 type pitcher?

[Yaz]

I agree with you Adam, the Brewers overpaid Suppan. It's just the state of the game. I just don't understand why Major League teams are giving this kind of money to players like this. But hey back at the time the move happened it seemed ok with me. Thought perhaps the Brewers found a pitcher who was finally hitting his stride.

 

He seemed more determined out on the mound Tuesday night. I think he is starting to feel the pressure. Furthermore, didn't he shut down the Mets in the NLCS last year? So that might explain the temporary improvement in his pitching.

 

Dunno I am just as disgusted as you are about Suppan. sigh..

[TracyThom]

If you are this upset about Suppan, thank goodness we did not win the Barry Zito lottery, or the Jarrod Washburn lottery the year prior.

[adambr2]

As far as I know, we were never in the Barry Zito sweepstakes. Nevertheless, I agree, I am glad we didn't end up with him. I have long thought Zito to be one of the most overrated starters in the league.

 

As for Washburn, definitely glad we didn't land him. I know we made him an offer, but as it would turn out, luckily he went elsewhere for more money.

 

This all doesn't excuse the Suppan signing, however. The Suppan signing would have been a good one -- to a team willing to pay that much to close out the back of their rotation. With Gallardo coming up, who can likely already exceed Suppan's production even at a young age, and Parra, who can probably match his numbers in a full season, it doesn't seem like the Suppan signing was a necessary one.

 

Hindsight is 20/20, but it seems that money could have been better spent elsewhere.

[bklynbrewcrew]

I hated the signing at the time and I hate it even more now. Suppan just isnt any good. All you heard was that he was a real innings eater yet the guy rarely gets past the 5th or 6th inning. He also leads the league in hits allowed and looks at times like he is throwing batting practice. As far as his signing being Melvins biggest mistake my reaction is that he isnt the one who made this move. Mark A was watching last years playoffs and he fell in love with Suppan off his playoff performances. He is the one that wined and dined Suppan and he is the one that is solely responsible for him being on the team. You really have to look at Melvins track record when it comes to pitchers and free agents in general. Melvin is constantly looking for values when it comes to pitching and he often targets young pitchers in trades. He traded for Bush, Villanueva, and Capuano and picked up Doug Davis and Turnbow off waivers. He has never given a mediocre pitcher a long term contract and that is why he traded Davis instead of giving him 21 mil over 3 yrs. If he wasnt willing to give Davis that kind of money I just dont think he would give a ridiculous amount of money to Suppan who isnt as good as DD. So therefore just based on track record and the way that the owner wined and dined Suppan the only conclusion you can come to is that Mark A wanted Suppan and Melvin probably tried to talk him out of it but Mark A had his mind made up. Yes Suppan was a huge mistake but the blame should solely go to the man responsible and that is Mark A.

[monkeyman343434]

I think the Suppan signing was average back then, and I still think it is average, not bad, not great. With Suppan in the rotation, it allowed Gallardo to mature further at AAA earlier in the season, I don't think he's as good of a pitcher today if he didnt get that experience at AAA earlier this year. Also, would anyone have expected Villanueva to make the opening day roster? If Suppan isn't around, the bullpen would have looked in even worse shape than it does now as well. At least Suppan has started 23 games along with averaging 6 innings per start, whereas Capuano is only averaging 5.5 innings per start, and Vargas is even lower than that, so Suppan has at least allowed the bullpen to take more of a rest.

[Invader3K]

While Suppan has definitely been disappointing this season, I still think it was the right move at the time. They needed pitching help, and they went out and got the best person available at the time. That said, I hope Suppan turns things around as the season continues.

[Never Outhustled]

Like I've said before, if you think Suppan is overpaid, just wait until you see what FA pitchers get next offseason. Suppan will become a bargain. All the factors are in place for the FA market to continue to escalate wildly, with no end in sight.

[Fatter than Joey]

I think the jury is still out -- In 2006 we took some hits to our rotation that were unrecoverable. I think signing Suppan was better than offering arby to Ohka, and Suppan hasn't been any worse than Doug Davis.

[BrewCrewForever]

I think it was, but who knew Villanueva, Gallardo and Parra would step up this season already and show how good they are. Melvin had no way to know that. If he felt one or all of the young guys could step in and do it, Im sure he would have thought twice about giving Suppan that contract. It sucks, but we have to swallow it and live with Suppan for awhile.

[hauser42]

Suppan was a good addition for this team. No one knew if the young guys could handle playing in big leagues this year. He allowed them not to rush the young arms up to the majors and overwork their arms this year, and also give them a quality arm for a contending team.

Lot of people should be asking themselves this question when it comes to Suppan. Would I rather have had Yo or Carlos V as a 5th starter for the begining of the season and have their young arm taxed by a huge jump in innnings or have Suppan to take that load.

The rebuttle that might cost us signing some players down the road is a reach. Most of the young players are going to be able to be kept during Suppans contract. Sheets is coming due but with inability to stay on the field for a length of time he would be a higher risk than Suppan.

[zingsheim]

He is just an average guy who cashed in on one good year. It's a pity we can't move hime earlier to make room for Gallardo or Parra.

[Ennder]

He is an average pitcher, he makes average pitcher money. That is what the market is now unfortunately. He is actually having a very normal year for him, he's just got a high ERA to show for it. Which isn't surprising since ERA isn't a stat you want to use to judge how good a pitcher is over the course of a year, I simply cannot say that enough..

 

I think this team would be in a lot of trouble without his signing though. With Capuano and Sheets going on the DL we already are bumping into innings limits with our young guys and Villaneuva saved the bullpen in the 1st half. If we hadn't signed Suppan I think the pitching staff would be in trouble right now.

[bigbrewkahuna]

Suppans hot start early this year is a big reason this team is still hovering around the 1st place mark.

The Brewers might be way behind the Cubs right now if it wasn't for his early sucess.

For that you can applaud Melvin or Attanasio for signing the guy.Well at least for this year anyways.

[JoeHova]

I don't know if signing him was Melvin's biggest mistake, but it was definitely a mistake in retrospect. The fact is that he turned out to be superfluous. I don't really blame Melvin for panicking after last year, but it would have been nice if he could have kept his head a little better and realized that some pitching prospects would eventually pan out.

 

I wish the Brewers didn't have 1/7th or so of their payroll tied up in a 4th/5th starter.

[BrewCrewForever]

Who knows maybe Saturday Suppan starts a hot streak together.

 

And then Melvin looks like a genius.

[gregmag]

All right, this is going to be one of those annoying "maybe he can catch" type posts, but I wanted to at least throw it out there so that somebody could tell me the specific reason why this won't work.

 

Here are some of the Brewers' biggest pitching problems:

 

-- Suppan doesn't appear to be a good starting pitcher right now. In particular, he can't go deep into games effectively. (Maybe he'll figure it out and be great down the stretch, in which case this whole conversation goes away; but for now, he's hurting the team in the rotation.)

 

-- We have at least five starting pitchers who look like better options than Suppan for next year's rotation.

 

-- However, we're stuck with him for the next three years, and we're stuck with him at a high price, which means -- given the way these things work -- he has to have a big role.

 

-- Meanwhile, our closer and our newly ransomed set-up man/closer candidate are about to become high-priced free agents.

 

You see where this is going . . .

 

Is there any way that Suppan could be converted into a closer? The obvious reason to say "no" is that he doesn't have that one killer pitch that most closers rely on. IIRC, however, he does seem to pitch better his first time through the lineup, at least this year. He seems to have the competitive/unflappable attitude that closers have. There are closers who don't throw hard; does he compare to any of them? Could he add a freakin' splitter or something?

 

Like I said, this seems very implausible to me. But it would be such a perfect solution to two big problems at once that I think it's at least worth throwing out there and making sure there's no possible way it could work.

 

Greg.

[patrickgpe]

i think he paid the going rate for a pitcher of his caiber. His numbers are not that much worse than his career so how can we say its a mistake. Seattle signing Weaver was a mistake because his numbers are far worse than his norm.

[EinhornIsFinkle]

At least if we would have signed Schmidt he would be hurt so we could actually make a spot in the rotation for our younger guys.

[bigbrewkahuna]

That's the first time that I've heard of a pitchers durability being a liability.

[JoeHova]

i think he paid the going rate for a pitcher of his caiber. His numbers are not that much worse than his career so how can we say its a mistake.

 

 

But if that's the case, why is Pittsburgh being roundly criticized for picking up a guy (Matt Morris) with much better career numbers who is making less per year and is signed only through next year?

 

I just think it's a little depressing that the biggest free agent the Brewers have signed in at least 20 years is a league average pitcher who has been given the largest contract in team history. I know that isn't really anybody's fault, but still.

[crewcrazy]

i think he paid the going rate for a pitcher of his caiber. His numbers are not that much worse than his career so how can we say its a mistake.

 

 

But if that's the case, why is Pittsburgh being roundly criticized for picking up a guy (Matt Morris) with much better career numbers who is making less per year and is signed only through next year?

 

I just think it's a little depressing that the biggest free agent the Brewers have signed in at least 20 years is a league average pitcher who has been given the largest contract in team history. I know that isn't really anybody's fault, but still.

 

I think the whole "largest contract in team history" thing is blown a little out of proportion. Like it was mentioned earlier in this thread, in a year or two, Suppan's salary is going to be looked upon as average, since salaries will continue to rise. The next free agent the Brewers sign will probably take over as the "new" highest-paid player in franchise history, Sheets' next contract with the Brewers may be worth more per year (if he re-signs), if Braun signs an extension it'll definitely be worth more per year than Suppan, etc. With more success, the Brewers should be able to draw "bigger" free agent signings, and (hopefully) everyone will forget about the Suppan signing. Take a look at Geoff Jenkins' contract. A couple years ago he was vastly overpaid considering his production. Now $8 million a year is pretty much league average for an outfielder of his caliber...isn't inflation fun? http://static.yuku.com/v2//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/laugh.gif

[Bucky Rules]

As far as his signing being Melvins biggest mistake my reaction is that he isnt the one who made this move. Mark A was watching last years playoffs and he fell in love with Suppan off his playoff performances. He is the one that wined and dined Suppan and he is the one that is solely responsible for him being on the team. You really have to look at Melvins track record when it comes to pitchers and free agents in general. Melvin is constantly looking for values when it comes to pitching and he often targets young pitchers in trades. He traded for Bush, Villanueva, and Capuano and picked up Doug Davis and Turnbow off waivers. He has never given a mediocre pitcher a long term contract and that is why he traded Davis instead of giving him 21 mil over 3 yrs. If he wasnt willing to give Davis that kind of money I just dont think he would give a ridiculous amount of money to Suppan who isnt as good as DD. So therefore just based on track record and the way that the owner wined and dined Suppan the only conclusion you can come to is that Mark A wanted Suppan and Melvin probably tried to talk him out of it but Mark A had his mind made up. Yes Suppan was a huge mistake but the blame should solely go to the man responsible and that is Mark A.

This is a tremendous leap in logic. You really have no fact to base it on -- just a wild theory. I have never seen any shred of evidence, or the slightest speculation from anyone inside or around the organization, that suggests that Attanasio has ever told Melvin to do something that he doesn't want to do. The only thing I ever heard was that Attanasio made it clear that we didn't want to be in a position where we didn't have enough major league quality pitchers to cover for injuries. That's a very general direction. And nobody ever suggested that Attanasio told him to go out and get Suppan. Just because he did his part to help lure him, doesn't mean that he brought him in against Melvin's wishes. And just because a budget strapped Melvin never spent money on FA pitchers in the past, doesn't mean he wouldn't want one if given the cash to do it.

 

Am I happy with the Suppan signing??? That depends on if it costs us a better player down the road (possibly Sheets). If it doesn't, I'm fine with the signing.

[JoeHova]

I think the whole "largest contract in team history" thing is blown a little out of proportion.

 

I agree, but I was just saying the fact that Suppan is the guy holding that distinction is a little depressing, though I guess less depressing than when it was Jeffrey Hammonds holding the title.

 

The next free agent the Brewers sign will probably take over as the "new" highest-paid player in franchise history

 

you are assuming that there will be a "next free agent". I hope you're right, but Suppan takes up 1/7th of the payroll and the guys the team has are just going to get more expensive. That's the main problem I have with the deal, if your payroll isn't that high, I'm not sure that you can really afford to pay average guys average money.