Dugout altercation

[Kraft4a3]

Found Uecker's call of the incident, but I don't think he could quite see what was going on since he didn't get all his facts straight.

 

Uecker's Call of the Fight

 

Seriously, this Yost-Estrada-Graffy incident at least breaks the status-quo because the status-quo sucked.

[Nearsighted Views]

I think this whole thing is very simple

 

Losing=Frustrating=Dugout Tantrums=Called Bad Manager

Winning=Elation=Abundant High Fives=Called Good Manager

 

This stuff probably goes on every day in a clubhouse somewhere that it's not caught on tape. How this turned into Estrada needing to go and team dissension is beyond me.

 

The one thing that I see in all this is that by everyone saying how it's nothing most likely means it's something but I again refer you to the chart above. If they win 8/10, it was a spark. If they lose 8/10, it was the proverbial straw.

[hawing]

I happened to flip over to 1070 coming home from work, and they took a call from a season ticket holder down by the dugout,

1070 had Brewers talk? I probably shouldn't be surprised since I don't usually listen, but on the day of the Linebrink trade I gave them a try and got nothing, nada, nix about baseball, let alone the Brewers.

[IslandsAC]

Found Uecker's call of the incident, but I don't think he could quite see what was going on since he didn't get all his facts straight.

Mahaha, very nice. I didn't expect that, although in retrospect, I should have.

 

[Oldcity]

Hall4President's got it right. The no-hitter was supposed to be a changing point. The blown saves were. Now this scuffle. The Brewers aren't going to play better or worse because this happened.

 

As far as the quote about the team not waiting for Ned Yost... I agree with those saying that the player was probably just saying that they had to start winning themselves.

[bigredrobbo]

This was wet-dream-on-Christmas-Day-time for the 50% of this board that doesn't like Ned. "See, he's even lost the clubhouse now, he's gotta go!"

 

Man, it's like Fox News around here at times, with people interpreting the incident in the way that best fuels their fire...

 

I'm willing to bet a lot more of this goes on than we ever see, but today the cameras caught it. That, allied to the fact that the Crew does look kinda touchy-feely to the outside world sometimes and this all of a sudden looks like a big deal.

 

Frustration=cross words=letting off steam=be a man about it=respect=kisses before bedtime.

[burniebrewer]

I didn't think 1070 ever aired anything that wasn't about left turns.

[Never Outhustled]

Sounds like the guy Yost snapped on is JJ Hardy. Certainly deserving, as he has been in a daze for months now.

[Mike Felder]

Yeah, to me the JS article seemed to hint at Hardy being the one yelled at...the writer was very quick to mention his error. It would seem to make sense that Graffanino would defend a fellow middle infielder too.

 

Or maybe I'm just reading too much into it.

[Paul77]

Now that more info is coming out and it seems that Graffy & Estrada - being veteran clubhouse guys - were defending one of their younger teammates I wonder if Johnny "the clubhouse cancer" Estrada will get an apology from all the people who jumped all over him for this today.

 

jsonline - Tony Graffanino, then Estrada, came to the defense of a teammate who they thought had been unfairly singled out by Yost for poor play.

 

In an interview with the Journal Sentinel later in the day, Yost confirmed that Graffanino and Estrada were defending a teammate. Yost said it was unfortunate the incident was being interpreted by some as a problem between him and Estrada.

 

"Nothing could be farther from the truth," Yost said. "For Johnny Estrada to be portrayed as the villain in this, as somebody who instigated it, is not even close. To be honest, Johnny stepped up to protect his teammates."

[Ashford Lando]

Roger that, on the fact the initial target may have been JJ -- and then his teammates defended him.

 

Nevertheless -- we are going to find out in the next 10 days what kind of team we are dealing with in '07.

[jhart05]

You know, I can understand the entire team being frustrated lately.

 

Seems like they are constantly bombarded by questions about the ScRubs.

 

Did you see this: http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=642007

 

Under the "Now they're chasing" heading.

 

Can't our local media give the local team a break and stop asking them about the ScRubs all the time?

 

Did you see what they did today?

They've won 10 in a row, they're creeping up, what do you think about it?

They're catching you, how do you feel about that?

Now they're caught you, do you feel like it's slipping away?

 

I don't know, I could see getting really pissed off if I had to answer questions about some other team every day.

[sheetswannabe]

This stuff happens all the time. Its just that the camera caught it. Thats all.

[ccbrew]

Now that some more details have come out that have clarified some things, I think the importance of not jumping to conclusions (belated kudos to naivin for the Office Space reference) is pretty clear.

 

After taking a little time to digest it, I actually don't see this incident being that big of a deal. Two possible scenarios that will inevitably be brought up by fans and media depending on what happens next..

 

-The Brewers go on a hot streak in the next couple of weeks, and people will point to this incident as being the catalyst and turning point.

-The Brewers continue to play poorly in the next couple of weeks and slip out of the race, and people will blame this incident as being the catalyst and turning point.

 

..when really, neither winning nor losing in the future have much to do with this event. Nothing that happened in the dugout today will help or hurt the players in coming through with RISP, the bullpen in holding leads, and the starting pitching to go beyond 5 innings. As fans, our jobs are to over-analyze and that's exactly what we're doing. I trust that the actual players involved have already put this behind them.

[uwisfan]

I'm not sure how often this happens. Seems I see a lot more of Yost railing on a player in public than I see from other managers against their players..and thats just what we are seeing. It seems to me that Yost's managing style consists of huffing and puffing, and complaining to Sveum and others over every bad play from a position player, while dressing down his pitchers every once in a while in public. I don't see how he's a players coach - just doesnt seem professional. I'm not saying the players arent screwing up. I'm saying whatever Yost is doing to get them to play better is not successful.

 

Also, I disagree with the 'poo pooing' of the incident like its just the 'common fan' that doesnt see that this is common. What was interesting about the Cubs fight was that it was pretty unusual. If it weren't you wouldn't be having the front office meeting with Ned about and questioning if there is a serious issue between the players and management. You also wouldnt have a player say something that could be interpreted harshly go "off record" to say it.

[logan82]

I think you and I are watching 2 different managers. Up until the last month Yost has rarley gone out and chewed out pitchers. I don't remember him chewing out other players in public at all. He almost never says anything about players in the media. I don't know which managers you are comparing him to, but Yost seems to keep most stuff in house.

[tomwopat]

It's nice to see the Jeff Kent school of clubhouse chemistry isn't a lost art.

 

In all seriousness, I'm sure Ned Yost is feeling the presssure as much as the players, and would assume he has his theories as to why the team is underperforming. And I think it's highly unlikely that it's the personality of all 25 guys to lay down and do what they're told, especially the grizzled vets like Graffy who know that the only thing scrappy battlers have to look forward to is being a free agent bargain. Nor do I find it likely that there are n't people who think the team could use a little fire, even at the cost of some of the personal relationships.

 

As Casey Stengel once said, "The key to being a good manager is keeping the people who hate me away from those who are still undecided."

[Fatter than Joey]

My thoughts --

 

This is different from the Cubs situation. The Cubs fight happened earlier in the year and between 2 veteran players. The Brewers situation happened between a manager and a kid that is playing in his first full season. I wouldn't expect that this would be a positive catalyst for this team.

 

Estrada is what he is. Yost cannot make him run fast or throw hard, however IF this has anything to do with pitch selection one would hope that after 100+ games a manager could coach a catcher into calling a game like he wants it to be called.

 

I am not sure what the "waiting for Yost" comment means or what context it was extracted from, but I think that there is a presumption about Yost and "intangibles", when we really have no evidence that he is a good or bad clubhouse/personnel manager, and we probably shouldn't assume he is or isn't going to make the right moves behind the scene.

 

 

(edit: formatting repair --1992)

[hauser42]

Looks to me like this just seals that this team is very tight and is concerned about each other. This could be a spark that puts this team back on the winning way.

[hammytime]

Regardless of the reason(s) for the altercation, I appreciate the humor in Graffy's comment about showers and birthday parties and what presents to get. That tells me that things aren't too serious, because I don't see that kind of humor coming out of a truly serious situation.

[Paul77]

Up until the last month Yost has rarley gone out and chewed out pitchers. I don't remember him chewing out other players in public at all.

 

Yost has been doing this all season. The first time was back in April during a Brewers/Cubs game. The Brewers had tied the game the inning before and Villanueva couldn't find the strike zone. Yost popped out and gave his "one way conversation".

 

I'll give Yost credit trying to instill a "performance counts" attitude in his pitchers, but that kind of on the mound dress down has started to become routine. You almost expect it now, where as before, if Ned came out there and gave you, the pitcher, an earful you might think, "wow, Ned doesn't do that very often, I better get me act together". Now it's kind of like when the Cardinals are down and Tony LaRussa starts arguing with the umpires. It might have fired up his team in the past, but now it's like "oh come on, drop the act."

[Roscoe Chill]

I'd see more of a parallel with Yost and Holmgren than Yost and Sherman.

 

 

Someone is really going to have to explain how in the world Ned Yost compares to Mike Holmgren.

 

Seriously, I hope there's another confrontation with Yost and players soon. I eagerly await Ned Yost's termination. And the fact that the players were sticking up for their teammate against Yost speaks volumes, and if the comment that Bill Michaels reported is true, Yost has lost this team. All I have to say about that is...good.

 

[endaround]

I think Yost's new tactic of constantly going out and yelling at his pitcher may have finally caught up with him. I wouldn't be surprised Estrada was still slightly steamed at Yost waiving him off from a mound meeting.

[Fatter than Joey]

Let's see you yell yourself out of this one Nedgar.

[Bruce Ciskie]

---

Someone is really going to have to explain how in the world Ned Yost compares to Mike Holmgren.

Um.

 

Yost hasn't won a championship, hasn't quit on his team because he wanted a better job, and he doesn't have any streets named after him in Milwaukee.

 

So, yeah, I don't get it, either. http://static.yuku.com/v2//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/happy.gif