Dugout altercation

[Mr QL]

The thing about that quote is that the player was unnamed presumedly meaning he wanted to remain anonymous. Interesting. I don't like Yost and hope he's gone regardless of this incident

[Nearsighted Views]

A note to Ben Sheets:

 

In the event of any further dugout discretions: GET AWAY AND DON'T GRAB ANYTHING!!!!!!!

[JJHardy7]

I know I might take some heat for this...but give me a chance.

Does anyone think this is at all like Mike Sherman with the Packers? He was liked at first. Good coach, plays, and players like him. The winning stopped (granted Yost hasn't always had the talent), but it look like the team quit and Sherman was gone. I see some things that are similar (obviously Sherman drafted and spent stupidly), but just the way we thought of Sherman reminds me of how some think of Yost now. Anytime Sherman would show emotion during a Packers game (instead of eating his pen) it was a good thing. And Sherman was also very quick with his answers regarding losses.

I'm ready to take on the heat...just wonder if this makes sense to anyone else.

[billyhallfan]

packers is football, brewers are baseball, I don't think it is similar at all. You could say that about any coach or manager, using that example, any coach that was once liked but then fired fits that scenario

[JJHardy7]

I understand what is football and what is baseball. I'm saying their styles. Both were questioned and were thought of as laid back and the players possibly quit on them. This doesn't always happen in every situation.

[brettac1]

I guess I don't take that comment to mean that the players don't like Yost - I think they are saying it's their respoinsibility to win the games.

[homer]

The Michaels quote is meaningful depending on who said it. If it was Estrada - who cares. If it was Capuano - post game bitterness. If it was Elmer Dessens - again, who cares.....but if was someone like Sheets or Jenkins - one of the leaders - than it might be curtains for Nedly.

[AdvantageSchneider]

What exactly has Ned Yost done that would cause the team to turn on him? Sending down Weeks had to be Melvin's decision as much as Yost's. Some people have problems with his decison making, but I haven't seen anything that would be so stupid as to be questioned by the players. He doesn't call the players out in the media.

 

If that quote is true there must be more to the story than what's been aired in the press, or at least anything I've read.

[uwisfan]

even if you disagree on the notion that yost is a bad decision maker, what you can't disagree with is this:

 

-The Brewers were expected to win the division with an unknown in Prince, Hardy, and Sheets to start the season

-All 3 of those unknowns started the season as all-stars

-The Brewers started out with the best record in baseball through the first month and a half

 

-That great start and preseason prediction was without the aid of Parra, Yo, and Braun, who are all turning in allstar performances

 

In spite of all the added super talent and everyone proving they can play great ball, and a bunch of rising allstars, the Brewers have played sub-.500 baseball since their great start. As the season progresses, all of the players have regressed. The only thing keeping the team with the hottest start alive is the phenoms they have brought up from the minors at this point.

[AdvantageSchneider]

I'd see more of a parallel with Yost and Holmgren than Yost and Sherman.

[crewcrazy]

Football coaches have way more control over the outcomes of games than baseball managers do...I don't think the Sherman comparison is accurate, but there are some parallels as far as clubhouse/locker room management goes. As for the whole dugout altercation thing, I don't see how this could be positive if you have players arguing at each other. Soon the clubhouse could be split up into sides and things could get a lot worse.

 

That anonymous quote about Yost is pretty damning if it's true, though, especially since one of Ned's strengths has always been his ability to calm clubhouse manners behind closed doors. I see him motioning Estrada to come with him to the clubhouse during the game as an attempt to settle things behind closed doors, but it's the arguing in plain view that's a little troubling to me.

 

In my mind, it's one thing to have something like this happen in June like the Cubs situation, but it's a completely different story in August/September. The Cubs were just "struggling" at the time and it was seen through the media as something that awoke a sleeping giant...this situation is perceived as frustrations about a "collapse" and how a young team supposedly can't cope with the pressures of a pennant race (nevermind that everyone involved was a veteran, not one of the young guys). I just really don't like the way this whole thing looked...the Cubs incident was two guys getting caught up in the frustration of a single game -- this seemed like it's been building for a long time, especially when you factor in that anonymous quote.

[AdvantageSchneider]

Convenient of you to leave off Sheets injury, Hall's injury, and Hardy's 2 month slump. And they are still tied for first. For that Yost should be fired? I don't think so.

[moofnelson]

How about a comparison between Yost and Alan Trammell with Detroit. Trammell took his lumps with a young team for a few years, then they dumped him and brought in a veteran manager and a few key veterans. Maybe that is what the Brewers need to do. Bring in a veteran manager.

[Pointer1VB]

How come when the Cubs get in an altercation it's viewed as an embarassment but when the Brewers do it everyone thinks it's a good thing?

[uwisfan]

other teams play through injuries this time of year, and its not like we lost Utley. As for the slump..look around.. aside from Braun, everyone is in a slump. Yes, I do believe Yost is part of that equation.

[JJHardy7]

I'm not saying football coaches and baseball managers control the same. I'm saying this..

 

1. Both lacked emotion

2. When they showed it people loved it

3. Players quit (at least on Sherman) and now maybe on Yost

 

They were sent out of town in a hurry...that's all I'm saying and I think it makes sense. I understand football and baseball is different. I find it unique though that in one state there pretty much is a strong parallel with these two in their demeanors. Sherman couldn't overcome his and will Yost? I'm not trying to compare football to baseball...sorry if I wasn't clear.

[logan82]

even if you disagree on the notion that yost is a bad decision maker, what you can't disagree with is this:

 

-The Brewers were expected to win the division with an unknown in Prince, Hardy, and Sheets to start the season

-All 3 of those unknowns started the season as all-stars

-The Brewers started out with the best record in baseball through the first month and a half

 

-That great start and preseason prediction was without the aid of Parra, Yo, and Braun, who are all turning in allstar performances

 

In spite of all the added super talent and everyone proving they can play great ball, and a bunch of rising allstars, the Brewers have played sub-.500 baseball since their great start. As the season progresses, all of the players have regressed. The only thing keeping the team with the hottest start alive is the phenoms they have brought up from the minors at this point.

Where were the Brewers expected to win the division? JJ Hardy had 2 great months until the league figured him out and he regressed towards expectations. Sheets is hurt. Prince had 3 homers for the month of July. The only player hitting in the month of July was Braun. The Brewers did start the year great. They played inferior talent for the whole month of April. By my count Capuano has had 4-5 starts where he should have gotten a win. Players win or lose games. Managers take the blame.

[saget]

How about a comparison between Yost and Alan Trammell with Detroit. Trammell took his lumps with a young team for a few years, then they dumped him and brought in a veteran manager and a few key veterans. Maybe that is what the Brewers need to do. Bring in a veteran manager.

 

There's no 'veteran manager' to get though. This is Yost's 5th year. How long till we consider him a veteran?

[brettac1]

How come when the Cubs get in an altercation it's viewed as an embarassment but when the Brewers do it everyone thinks it's a good thing?

I only think it's a good thing if Ned laid into Estrada. I don't think things like this have any sort of real impact on what happens in the future. First and foremost, these things are usually funny.

 

[pretendastronaut]

How come when the Cubs get in an altercation it's viewed as an embarassment but when the Brewers do it everyone thinks it's a good thing?

 

Well for one, the Cubs situation was teammates throwing punches and spitting on each other. Vastly different. But I also don't think many people would argue that this looks good persay, or is something you want to be shown off, but I think people are hoping this is finally some sign that a fire can be light under these guys, because they haven't showed a lot of spark this year. Its more about hoping something positive can come of it than anything else.

[drezdn]

I hope this leads to an all-team meeting and something positive.

[Mr QL]

How about a comparison between Yost and Alan Trammell with Detroit. Trammell took his lumps with a young team for a few years, then they dumped him and brought in a veteran manager and a few key veterans. Maybe that is what the Brewers need to do. Bring in a veteran manager.

 

There's no 'veteran manager' to get though. This is Yost's 5th year. How long till we consider him a veteran?

 

When he leads a team to a postseason or at least a winning record. Yost is a bad manager. There's no way around that. Maybe he's not the reason we're losing but he's certainly not helping. Yea, maybe it's not fair to fire him since he has a young team and has had bad luck with injuries but life is not fair. Is he the man who is going to bring us to the next level and win us a world series? I don't think so and that's our goal. It's not like it's just irrational Brewer fans that think this either. I know tons of other fans from other teams that all agree when watching Brewer games that he is not a good manager and could cost us the postseason.

[naivin]

this seemed like it's been building for a long time, especially when you factor in that anonymous quote.

 

WHAT!?!?!??!?!?! What seemed to be building? Nobody even knows exactly what happened, who was involved or what it was about, and now it has been building for a long time? As for that "anonymous quote" from some blowhole who supposedly heard some namesless faceless player said something, being some sort of smoking gun, c'mon. You're better than that.

 

http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/user_images/pics/1/245000/ngbbs3c48f1755fcfb.jpg

[brewcrew00]

I for one don't understand how some on here as well as the 1250 postgame show can sit and continue to pin stuff on Ned. There are many reasons why, and I'd like to list a few of them here, as I truly believe this altercation was a good thing.

 

--Estrada is a clubhouse cancer, the guy is with his 4th team in 7 seasons. There is a reason that organizations keep passing on a .300 hitting catcher, obviously character is one of them.

 

--"Key contributors" hitting .245 & .212, a power bat with 9 home runs and only 42 driven in

 

--4 of your 5 starting pitchers with an ERA over 4.70.

 

--The absolute collapse of the back end of the bullpen. July ERA's for CoCo's at 4.66, Turnbow at 6.10, and Villanueva at 6.75

 

All in all, it was time for some type of venting/blow out session. This one just happened to be in the dugout and get caught on camera. I find it hard to believe that all this blame could be placed on Ned, and this thread would turn into something about firing him and keeping Estrada. I know it's like a swear word on the board to criticize Melvin, but remind me what bat he added at the deadline to help an offense that can't score after the 4th inning? He has forced Ned's hand to be that of guys producing like Weeks, Jenkins, Suppan, Vargas, Mench, Counsell, and Graffanino. To me, before everyone goes jumping on the managers throat take a step back and look at the whole picture.

[crewcrazy]

this seemed like it's been building for a long time, especially when you factor in that anonymous quote.

WHAT!?!?!??!?!?! What seemed to be building? Nobody even knows exactly what happened, who was involved or what it was about, and now it has been building for a long time? As for that "anonymous quote" from some blowhole who supposedly heard some namesless faceless player said something, being some sort of smoking gun, c'mon. You're better than that.

 

You're right...I had a bit of an overreaction. This was the first I had heard of the incident since I wasn't able to listen to the game this afternoon and didn't see the clips until I started reading through this thread. The whole thing just left a bad taste in my mouth and I couldn't help but feeling like something's been going on that we didn't know about -- I don't have anything to back that up, though...it's probably just an irrational fear at this point. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

 

As for the Bill Michaels quote, I just didn't like how it sounded at the time. I'm not in the Milwaukee area, so I don't know if that guy is the kind of radio host that makes up anonymous quotes and makes outlandish statements just to get people to call in, but it looks like he might be. Sorry if my initial reactions were misguided...usually I try to get all the facts before saying something, but due to the uncertain circumstances I had to go with a gut reaction.