05/06/2004 - Milwaukee (Obermueller) at Cincinnati (Harang)

[Jaylyn]

First off, gotta say I'm a fan of Obermueller's. However, it's clear Wes cannot go past the 6th, so either move him to long relief or do not allow him to go into the 7th no matter the pitch count or even if he's throwing a no-hitterhttp://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/laugh.gif . Still, from everything I've seen, it was a total meltdown in the 7th

[DuWayne Steurer]

Ok Ja, I see that, but with hindsight being 20-20, would you rather send Bennet out there to start the inning, or with 2 on and no out?

 

Yost HAD to know that Obie was reaching the end of his rope. As long as we're making assumptions about what Yost may or may not have been thinking in this game, I'm going to make that assumption. Knowing that, he also knew that Bennet WOULD be the guy he'd send out there if Wes got into trouble. So what's the difference if he has confidence in him or not? It was almost a certainty (IMO) that Bennet would be pitching in that inning, and a DEFINATE certainty that if Obie couldn't finish the inning, that Bennet would be pitching with men on base.

[DHonks]

Let's forget all this stuff. Let's think about tomorrow. How can we be better prepared to win?

Well, as much as some have complained about Counsell, Grieve, Clark, and Helms, our offense is scoring runs. We need pitching now.

By late next week we have Capuano back, giving us three starters. But as of now we'd be still counting on 2 of Santos, Hernandez, and Obermueller.

And our pen would likely have Hernandez, Kinney, Ford, and Bennett still in it. We would have Kieschnick, Kolb, Vizcaino, and Burba, but that's 4 out of 8 effective. In AAA they have both Childers, Adams, Wise, and Michalek (although his numbers aren't that great).

And of course none of those address the rotation problems. If we fall much lower in the standings, then there's no real point in calling up Hendrickson until August, if at all this year. And the same can be said for Saenz (not that we're really arguing whether or not he's ready).

[Justin Einerson]

A friend of mine just said he'd give his left nut for Capuano to be healthy. Amen to that. We need some depth in our arms. We may be able to win from behind but man we sure can give up wins easily too... I must say this sure is fun and exciting to be as competitive as we are... but the record isn't really showing too much yet, I hope we can take advantage of the Mets and Expos.

[scoop53714]

....at least Helms didnt play.

 

I am begining to calm down......lets sweep the Mets and get over .500. Enough of this BS.

[DHonks]

Question is, how many runs will we need to score since we're sending Davis, Hernandez, and Santos out there. We might need 10 each night

[danzig6767]

That whole inning was a mess and to be fair to Yost/Bennett,if the defense didnt fall apart they wouldnt have scored all those runs.They scored 5 runs on 1 hard hit ball,the one Griffey hit.The rest were errors by Ginter/Pods and 2 bleeder hit balls off good pitches that just squibed there way up the base lines.Alot of bad defense and bad luck turned a 1 run inning into a 5 run inning.

 

As others stated it was bad roster management,Yost went into this game with a struggling SP and very little bullpen to back him up.What was their plan if Obie got shelled early in the game or if the game went 12-13 innings??

[rluzinski]

I'm over it... On to New York.

 

Atleast we are scoring alot of runs!

[RobertR]

That was a depressing game. Really points out that despite the fact that the Brewers appear to be the deeper, leaner, scrappier team offensively that they were claiming, the pitching staff looks like it's ready to collapse like a house of cards. Melvin and Yost really do have to figure out a plan of action to shore up the pitching staff.

 

Robert

[clancyphile]

Dhonks

 

First job:

Get Capuano healthy.

 

Second item:

Call Saenz up ASAP. He's already done decently, so let's keep him out there.

 

Wes did okay - Ned pushed him an inning too far this time. And I don't think Bennett was too bad, either. Not his fault that the team's defense screwed up three times in the seventh.

 

That gives the Crew four starters: Sheets, Davis, Capuano, Sanez - Obermueller might be okay - but for about five-six innings. Piggybacking Santos with him should do the job.

 

The bullpen: Kolb, Vizcaino, Bennett, Burba, and Kieschnick are doing okay. Kinney needs to go, on the other hand. As for Adrian Hernandez and Ben Ford, it might be time to really shorten the leash.

[endaround]

Wes did not do ok. 5 earned runs in 6+ innings with 7 hits and 3 walks is not close to OK. He actualy raised his ERA after this outing.

 

Saenz should not see Milwaukee unless its for another emergency start or the month says September.

[JohnBriggs12]

I've had all night to ponder this disaster and just have to chime in with a few observations.

 

One way to overcome a short bullpen is to put the game out of reach when you have the chance. Obermueller is a decent hitter for a pitcher but should have been pulled for a pinch hitter in that situation. They were one hit away from putting the game basically away in top of 7th. Say he hit Helms there and Wes clears the bases with a double. You've accomplished 3 things. Obermueller leaves the game ahead with some confidence restored. Helms wakes up. Team wins the game and series.

 

Yost claims to have learned so much from Bobby Cox. Yeah right. No way Greg Maddux bats in that situation, much less Wes Obermueller.

 

It's time Melvin does something to get a serviceable left handed reliever (or two). Reds lineup of Casey, Dunn, and Griffey cries out for a lefthander.

 

Managing is about setting up players to succeed. Last two games Yost has done the opposite.

[Kraft4a3]

Night to sleep on it and still feel the same.

 

I am not down on Obie or Bennett. The decision not to pinch hit for Obie, then bring in Bennett with a clean slate still bugs me. The excuse hindsight is 20/20 will not cut it because 75% of the Brewer fans watching were thinking the same thing.

 

Wins for this team are not going to be easy to come by, when you have a chance to grab one you take it.

[clancyphile]

endaround

 

Yost pushed Obermueller an inning too far. Had he yanked Wes after six, it's 4 runs in 6 IP - not the best start, but one that would have been good enough.

 

Instead, Bennett came in starting with a jam (two on, no out).

 

This one is Ned's fault.

[endaround]

No 4 ER in 6 innings with 6 hits and 2 walks is not good either. There is a reason why Obermueller has a career ERA of 6.49

[Hank Aarons Shoes]

I agree Briggs that it was a poor decision to bat OB. Cox might have let Maddux hit b/c he would have a more than reasonable belief that Maddux would shut down Cincy for another 2 innings. Yost has no logical reason for thinking OB would do that.

 

He should have been pinch-hit for period. While it may be too simple to say a hit puts the game away at that time . . . .it's fair to say it would have greatly changed the complextion of the game.

 

I know the Brewers are operating w/ a thin bullpen, but if Yost manages to win the game he is playing, and not worrying about the next one, they MAY have split this series.

[batman]

I probably would have pinch hit with Kieschnick and hoped he could give me two or three innings, but I can't really fault Yost for expecting Obermueller to get to 100 pitches. If he's unable to do that, he doesn't really deserve a rotation spot regardless of performance. Unless he's Tim Hudson and can throw 85 pitch complete games, he's got to have some more stamina than he's shown.

 

Ugly, ugly game. While Junior Spivey has played very well, I still think this team would be better off had he already been dealt for a starting pitcher. Even if that starter was of Doug Davis quality, we'd be a lot better off and the bullpen wouldn't resemble a MASH unit.

 

They need to get some folks from Indy up for this weekend. They've got two pitchers they could DL if needed (Burba and Kolb), and they could certainly designate Durrington for assignment. With Adrian Hernandez getting a start, Ben Ford could also be sent down temporarily.

 

Davis + Hernandez + Santos = We Need Relievers Badly

 

~Bill

[rickey24]

That was just too frustrating to watch last night. The bottom line is that OB is going to give you 6 innings, that is it. Every time it seems that Yost asks him to go longer he gets shelled. Not pinch hitting for OB with the bases loaded after he had given up two runs the inning before, is just plain bad baseball. You had a chance to put the Reds away and you let it slip through your fingers.

 

The worst part? Listening to Sutton and Schroeder bumble on about the Texas Rangers while not once bringing up the fact that OB should have been pinch hit for. I felt like I was watching a Ranger broadcast when they kept going on and on about how great Michael Young was. Come on, wake up, watch the game, have some critical comments when they are necessary!

 

This one stings.

[scoop53714]

....frustrating is about the only way to describe last nights events. Yost puked big time. Physical errors will always be slightly more acceptable than mental errors. Ginter and Pods both made horrible plays but the disaster was already underway thanks to complete mismanagement by Ned. I still like Ned but he has to do better than that.

 

Without question, Brooks should have hit in Obie's spot. A single makes it a 4 run game. Even the Reds manager expected a pinch hitter. He yanked his pitcher after the walk to load the bases. Had he known obermuller was about to hit, I am sure he would have just left him in.

 

Nothing short of a sweep in NY will make me feel a bunch better. Milw is 2 big comebacks away from being on a major losing streak.

 

This series is the first crossroads of the season in my opinion. Milw either gets back in the hunt or lays down this weekend.

[JohnBriggs12]

When you consider the Reds lineup that was loaded with left handed power, Obermueller's performance was as good as one could expect from 75% of right handed starters in the league. Not great, but acceptable.

 

He minimized damage in what could have been a huge 4th inning and didn't get rattled after Junior took him deep.

 

The bottom line was he was ahead by 2 runs through 6 and that should have been enough for a guy who has not been pitching every 5 days. Heck, I might have pulled him for a pinch hitter in the top of the 6th when he bunted with runners on first and third and one out. That was another wasted opportunity to pad the lead done just to keep the starter in the game.

 

A little creative thinking was lacking. They could have used Hernandez in relief Thursday, optioned Durrington and brought up a pitcher for Saturday or reverted to Kinney.

[igor67]

I think Yost goofed, but the brutal truth of the matter is the decision to carry 2 wounded relievers and spot start some long relievers put Yost into a terrible situation. I mean the team did have the lead at the time, so the question was which way gives me the least opportunity of screwing it up? No guarantee Kiesch doesn't strikeout or GIDP. And he's been dealing lately, but how much of that is real? If he gets into trouble you don't want to bring in Bennet to try and preserve a lead in a jam. Basically Kolb is going to end up going almost a full 15 days without pitching. The difference between him being available a couple of days earlier does not outweigh the affects of playing with a 24 and for a couple of days a 23 man roster, really 22 with the rule V guy.

[GenoSeligPrieb]

"When you consider the Reds lineup that was loaded with left handed power, Obermueller's performance was as good as one could expect from 75% of right handed starters in the league. Not great, but acceptable."

 

JBriggs:

 

Obermueller:

 

6 innings pitched,

6 runs,

5 earned runs,

7 hits,

3 walks,

ERA: 7.50,

WHIP: 1.67

 

And THAT'S "acceptable?"

 

If anyone connected to the Brewers, fan, sportswriter, broadcaster, coach, manager, front office...feels that outings such as these are acceptable, then we'll stay in last place indefinitely.

 

Obermueller, with his 8.28 ERA, should not be pitching in the majors.

[DuWayne Steurer]

It's pretty sad what Brewers fans are willing to take as "acceptable" these days when a 7.50 ERA is "OK".

 

I'm not getting Doug Melvin right now. This roster, more specifically the pitching, is in complete SHAMBLES right now. We've used 2 relievers as spot starters, 2 OTHER relievers are hurt and can't go, leaving us with, essentially, a 3 man bullpen. That's ludicrous.

 

Like I said, and I know there are a few who disagree, but it really seems lately that the day in and day out priority has NOT been to win games, but to just make it to tomorrow. That's not fair to the players, and it's not fair to the fans.

[rluzinski]

When Melvin decided it wasn't worth signing an OK #3 type pitcher and maybe shore up the pen, he KNEW he was playing with fire. Well, this is what he gets.

[1992casey]

---

batman wrote: They need to get some folks from Indy up for this weekend. They've got two pitchers they could DL if needed (Burba and Kolb), and they could certainly designate Durrington for assignment. With Adrian Hernandez getting a start, Ben Ford could also be sent down temporarily.

---

How about Mike Adams as a callup? He's on the 40-man roster and is doing well.

 

According to this site, Durrington has an option. He wouldn't have to be DFA'd if the Brewers went to the 40-man roster for help.