5/11/2004 - Brewers (Sheets) vs. Expos (L. Hernandez)

[danzig6767]

Good for Wes

 

He's got plenty of flack,from me included,hope it gets hi out of his funk.This team is amazing this year when it comes to dramatic games.

[mikerollins]

I'm glad you posted that....

 

I was going to but figured I'd get bashed since I'm turning into a big time Pro-Yost guy.

 

I just love the job he's done with this team!!

 

I still maintain that Durrington is the best option for a bases empty, leading off an inning at bat. Why waste your big run producers when nobody is on base and you are down 3-0.

 

Also, I think down 3-0 in a game where you haven't touched Livan Hernandez all night looks like a good time to try to "straighten Bennett out". It's still a meaningful inning because you are only down 3, but it is improbable that you are going to win. If you dont pitch him in a game like this, when can you pitch him?? When it's 11-0 one way or the other??

 

I still maintain that Nedly pushed all the right buttons tonight.

[DHonks]

Why waste your big run producers when nobody is on base and you are down 3-0.

 

once again, I was wrong. I was wondering why you don't use Hall or Kieschnick then. But tonight it's hard to argue that any of Yost's moves were mistakes, since they won. I guess my issue with using Durrington there is that if you keep waiting to use the best pinch hitters, then there's a chance they'll never get to the plate.

 

Anyways, I can finally eat. Milk and cookies was tiding me through the game, since I didn't want to spend more than 1 min 30 secs in the kitchen at a time. What an exciting game from start to finish, and--yes it was 8-5--but I call that a pitcher's duel. Sheets and Hernandez combined for gems, even if they both gave up three in the end.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Just because they won doesn't mean EVERY MOVE Ned made was the right one. If he uses Vizcy in the 9th, the game never goes to extra innings. I know, hind-sight is 20-20, but I just can't go all roses and puppies and say that Ned is perfect, when he's clearly not.

[RobertR]

Jeff Bennett is clearly not someone who you want in the game if it's even close. Granted, Ned didn't know the Brewers were going to score 5 runs, but it's not like the Expos had Gagne in the bullpen to close if Hernandez ran out of gas.

 

As for Trent Durrington, he's hitting .176 with a .263 OBP and the Brewers are down multiple runs. That's not a time for your worst hitter to come in. It's also an example why someone like MacGruder should be on the team instead of a middle infielder who can't hit.

 

Still, the Brewers won and Ned obviously did some things right, tonight. That said, just because they won doesn't mean that Ned didn't make mistakes either. And some of this is simply roster construction issues. Neither situation may have come up if Ben Ford and Durrington were replaced with competent major leaguers in order to give Yost real options.

 

Robert

[RyDogg66]

Well said Robert.

[clancyphile]

Uh... not to nitpick on things... but do we WANT Brewers hitters to be swinging at the first pitch of an at bat?

 

*pause*

 

ONLY KIDDING!!!! I loved this win!!!

[danzig6767]

The thing i wonder about Bennett is,does he have enough upside to carry on the roster all year??

 

His fastball doesnt look overly explosive and his slider isnt devastaing.He doesnt look to have enough pitches to start,so he looks to be a career bullpen guy at best.

 

What about his upside am i missing that justifies having a guy your petrified to use for a whole season??

[Al the Thinking Man]

It's also an example why someone like MacGruder should be on the team instead of a middle infielder who can't hit.

 

Don't forget, Trent played 2B and they moved Spivey to SS when Hall got hurt that one game. It's even worse to have a 2B/3B who can't hit.

[rluzinski]

Another great game... I tuned in for the bottom of the 9th... man I have good timing http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

Wes certainly needed that. He doesn't go anothe rmonth to get another RBI.

 

Why is Trent on the team?

[AJAY]

Just got home from Miller Park . . .

 

 

YEEEAAAAHHHH !!!!

[danzig6767]

I wonder is Trent is on the team mainly because he's fast,they want that quick pinch runner factor.

 

Not what i'd advocate,but not many logical reasons besides that sound reasonable.

[mikerollins]

>>>>

Why is Trent on the team?

 

****No idea!! He doesn't belong. He hasn't belonged all year. However, based on the players available and the situation I did not have a problem using him in the 8th. But he in now way deserves to be on a major league roster.

 

Just to clear up.....

 

Spivey (not healthy....Yost said on the radio he cant run yet..yes he hit late in the game, but that was with a runner in scoring position where he could have just jogged to first.)

 

Bennett (hate to waste your backup catcher just in case)

 

Hall and Brooks (I want them when they represent the tying run...not to try to start a rally)

 

So it basically came down to Clark or Durrington. He went with Durrington tonight. Big deal. He's on the roster....that's the problem. Using him in that situation tonight was not.

[rluzinski]

Hall and Brooks (I want them when they represent the tying run...not to try to start a rally)

 

Huh? Why exactly would you NOT want your best players to start a rally in the bottom of the 8th, down by 3? Save them until after the game? It's not like there were two out when Durrington hit, so the situation is as good as ever to start a rally.

 

There was atleast 3 better options:

 

Clark

Hall

Keischnick

 

I just don't understand the logic. It was just Yost trying to find a place to pinch hit for a guy who has no role.

[mikerollins]

I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree. I guess I just wouldnt have wanted to waste Hall or Brooks with a solo shot to make it 3-1 or a single to start a rally (with a lineup that had nothing against against Hernandez).

 

I would rather see if you can get somone on base, walk, hit, error whatever....and then bring up Brooks.

 

I really wouldnt have had a problem with Hall hitting there I guess, but I wouldnt have hit Brooks there.

 

Look at like the days Barry Bonds gets off. He doesn't come up when its' 4-0 in the 9th inning to lead off the inning and "start a rally". They only use him if the bases are loaded and he can tie the game.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Mike, I'd agree that using Brooks there is a bit of a waste. It seems they almost exclusively use him when he'd be at least the tying run, which makes sense.

 

I still think however, that Hall or Clark is a better choice than the anemic Durrington. Like you said, this is where we simply agree to disagree.

[JohnBriggs12]

I was critical of Yost's moves last week. Last night I thought his moves were well timed and he outmanaged Robinson

 

Trailing 3-0 going into the ninth the way Hernandez was pitching was a large deficit. That's exactly the time to get a struggling reliever like Bennett an inning.

 

Even after a 14 inning game, Yost still has 6 guys in the bullpen fresh enough to pitch tonight if needed including the setup man and closer. That is quite remarkable.

[batman]

Talk about a tough night for Ginter... oh-for-7, four strikeouts, and an error.

 

That guy sucks... he's a bench player.

 

~Bill

[TracyThom]

FWIW, Helms' homer was #1 on Sportscenter's Top 10. Wowee.

[BuckyTuba]

i have to say i hate sutton, but his call of the homer last night was hilarious. couldn't understand the thing he said after he said flyball, but when he shouted "EVERYBODY, GO HOME!", it just made me laugh out loud. funny stuff

 

good for wes, great for the team, back @ .500, let's go slaughter zach day today.

[igor67]

Having watched the banter the durrington move was pretty dicey, but considering the roster is missing a few available people he wasn't an obviously worse choice to hit in an OBP situation (which is to say I highly doubt that Trent can't atleast post an OBP near .300 given time). Using Bennet in the 9th looks bad in retrospect only because the Crew came back. Given the overall quality of Expos pitching so far, even if Livan struggles that inning it would seem like they still have a good chance to shut you down. This might be a case where Melvin should take some heat and they might want to be thinking about letting Bennet go and finding a real reliever.

[endaround]

Why get rid of Bennet instead of Ford? Bennett has not been great, but Ford has been worse. So why not bring some one in, andmove Bennet to the role Ford has (blowout, last man out)?

[fstorm1]

Quote:

---

Ok, time to set the record straight. I cant speak for everyone, but I think everyone here is pulling for Wes Helms, to at least be as good as he was last year, if not better. I'd love Wes to hit .260 with 28 Hrs and 85 RBI, but so far, .230/1/9 just isnt what we need. Now, granted, Keith Ginter has been slumping, but he STILL is hitting better than Wes, leads the team in HRs, etc. that is why I would like to see Keith get a majority of the PT. Just like Id like to see Hall get more PT at SS. So nobody has any ill will towards Wes, I think we all just want our best 8 out there every day.

---

 

Please. Two weeks into the season, and there were (and are) daily posts of how Helms "sucks". People aren't necessarily pulling for Wes, they're pulling for the team, which is fine, but all the posts about how he "sucks" and needs to go blah blah blah...those are uncalled for and useless.

 

The guy's 27. Last I checked, he had a decent year last year. Only with playing time can he get better.

 

If anything, Craig should sit, move Spivey to short and play Gint at 2B.

 

And yes, there are plenty of people here who have "ill will" towards Wes. I don't have the time now, nor the desire to go back to each game posts and find all the bashers, but feel free.

 

I just thought he should be given more time than just 25-30 games.

[SomewhereInTime]

This was a fun read through, brings back a lot of memories. I can't believe it took 16 years for another 4+ run 9th inning comeback.