05/18/2004 - Brewers (Davis) @ San Juan Expos (Day)

[RyDogg66]

Pods is worrisome, but it sounded like he just missed a leadoff double in the 9th, it also sounded like Ginter almost had one as well.

 

The guy I am worried about is Jenkins. He went 3-4 today, but at least one of his hits was an IF single. WHere is his power stroke he lad last year?

[scoop53714]

Pods is begining to worry me a bit because he has basically stunk since he signed his contract.

 

Meanwhile Alex Sanchez is hitting about .900.

[DHonks]

Pods isn't having too many problems. Like I said, he hit three balls into the left-center gap against the Braves that Jones ran down, and only Jones or Cameron could ever have gotten to. I still think Scotty is pulling his front shoulder open a bit early, but I haven't seen it anywhere in print--might just be my mind.

I'm more concerned about Moeller and the strikeouts at this point. Too many times he's had runners on, and not even put the ball in play.

Good to see DAvis throw well again. And nice job for Adams...wasn't he undrafted?

[badgerfan.tgf]

I'm also wondering where the HR's are for Jenkins. This team is sorely missing some power in the middle of the lineup. A home run every now and then would really help things considering the amount of close games the Brewers seem to play. If I'm not mistake, I think the Brewers have had two or three home runs over the course of the last 10 games. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/eyes.gif

[DuWayne Steurer]

Overbay and Jenks account for 37% of the team's extra base hits at this point, and that's with Jenks hitting only 4 homers so far. Seriously lacking in some PUNCH besides that pair, and games like tonight are the result.

[rotoherb]

Anyone worried about Pods should check out the threads from last July when he hit .248/.307/.299 for the month and people were freaking out. He promptly went on to hit .364/.414/.542 in August and no one cared much about his slump in July. It's a long season, slumps happen.

[homer]

Maybe Ginter or Hall should start for Podsednik.http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[homer]

Quote:

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WHAT DOES HE HAVE TO DO FOR PEOPLE TO THINK HE'S STARTER QUALITY

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For me he just has to produce more consistently when he starts. He hasn't done that this year although I think the day or two off he just had will help.

[rluzinski]

For me he just has to produce more consistently when he starts. He hasn't done that this year although I think the day or two off he just had will help.

 

Well Pods, is slumping, so he should be a utility player? But, in Helm's case, since he's sucked CONSISTANTLY all year, he's OK?

 

What do you mean by consistantly? Never get hot and never get into slumps? This is BASEBALL, that's what happens. That's why we AVERAGE a player's performance. Ginter's AVERAGE is great. Better than 2/3rds of the starting second basemen in the National League.

 

But apparently that's not good enough anymore. Atleast not for Ginter.

[homer]

Helms and Ginter had the exact same OPS last year (actually Helms' was better by a small percentage) - no small sample there.

[DuWayne Steurer]

If we're going to use "consistency" as the hallmark for deciding who starts and who doesn't, by all means, Geoff Jenkins should be riding the pine then. The guy is average for 2 months at a time, then gets hot for 2 weeks, the is pretty pedestrian again for a month or 2, then has another torrid 2 week stretch. Bench his butt immediately, and wait til he gets HOT to put him in the lineup!

[JohnBriggs12]

Podsednik's May numbers: .215 BA, .307 OBP, .246 SLG.

 

This is quite disturbing. For this team to score runs, he needs to get going. With Grieve nursing a groin and Spivey on the longest day to day watch of all time, Ned does not have a lot of flexibility. I'd sit Scotty a couple games, move Clark to center, Ginter to right and Hall to second. Hopefully, sitting and watching will get his juices going.

[Member]

.215 BA, .307 OBP, .246 SLG.

 

Those numbers are not good, but I'll "take a look at the bright side".

 

Even tho he is slumping, Podsednik's OBP is still nearly 100 points higher than his BA. What does that mean? It means even if he "only" hits .280, which is probably a reasonable expectation, we can expect his OBP to be in the .370-.380 range, which is right about where it was last year.

 

I'm encouraged to see this sort of improvement in his game in spite of his two and a half week cold stretch.

 

Combined that with some well hit balls that have turned into outs, and I'm not too worried. It would be nice if he could get a day or two off now and again, but I don't think he needs an extended sit-down.

[rluzinski]

homer,

 

Which is it? That Ginter is obviously a utility player because his OPS was .001 lower than Helms, or because he's obviously not consistant?

 

Your logic escapes me.

[batman]

Nicely played, rluzinski. Ginter's line is now:

 

.268 AVG, .366 OBA, .495 SLG, .861 OPS

 

The NL average second-baseman is:

 

.267 AVG, .327 OBA, .404 SLG, .731 OPS

 

And the average NL player, regardless of position, is:

 

.261 AVG, .326 OBA, .420 SLG, .746 OPS

 

I wish we had 10 utility players as good as Ginter.

 

~Bill

[homer]

My point is that he's not shown that he's better than Helms as a starter. Most of his at bats are in spot duty. When he was given the starting job his numbers fell - same with last year - he hit .271 in July, .244 in August, .222 in Sept. As a result his OPS went from .859 to .812 to .788

 

These are not bad numbers by any means, but my opinion (and it could be proven wrong and if he does I will be the first to admit it) is that given an everyday role, we can't expect him to have an .800 OPS

 

I'll grant you that he gets his share of extra base hits, but so does Kieschnick. Can we expect Brooks to maintain his 1.061 OPS all year? No, and that's why I'm not in favor of starting him either. His role is pinch hitting which puts him in a position to succeed.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Keith Ginter

 

 

Month AB's OPS

Apr. 49.......557

May. 43......760

June. 43.....828

Jly. 59.......859

Aug. 82......812

Sep. 81......788

 

I don't know, but there's 3 months where he played regularly, and his OPS was .788 or higher in all 3 months. Yes, his BA went down, but his OBP and SLG% both went up. I don't see any correlation in those numbers between playing time and performance, other than his rather poor first month.

[endaround]

Well Ginter's OBP went from 317 in July to 373 in August and 344 in Septmeber. Ginter's OPS went down because hit had a huge slugging month in July of 542 which no one seriously believes will last for any length of time.

[homer]

Before I start another Ginter war, I just want to clarify that the reason I bring all this up is that I get the impression that people thinkg Ginter will be able to maintain an OPS of upwards of .825 - .850 as a starter and I just don't think that's realistic. Having said that, if he has a .700 - .750 OPS as a starter I think that could be considered successful and I'd have no problem with him as the starting 2B after Spivey gets traded and into next year.

[batman]

He had a .779 OPS last year. Why do you expect that he will have a lower OPS (.700-.750) this year?

 

And yes, I believe KG would produce an OPS of between .800 and .900 while playing a full season. Somewhere between .810 and .825 seems reasonable given his minor league numbers and production in the big leagues thus far.... his career OPS is .791 as-is.

 

~Bill

[rluzinski]

First of all, I would like to here a rational explanation for how a player could actually be BETTER as a pinch hitter/utility player. I can appreciate a hitter that pitchers don't know, but it doesn't take that many PA for a team to know how to approach a batter. Unless proven otherwise I completely reject the possibility outright.

 

With that in mind, Ginter's career OPS is .791, with many of those PA's coming as a pinch hitter/spot starter. It would be fair to assume then, as a regular starter, those numbers will only go UP. Even if you wish to make the ludicrous claim that Ginter's career numbers are as good as they will ever be, it's still 60 points HIGHER than the average NL second basemen!!

 

So I ask one more time, WHAT has Ginter done that allows so many to confidently claim that the best role for Ginter is as a utility player?

 

I suspect that many decided in haste that Ginter would amount to anything but a utility player. Last year, when some disagreed it became a bit personal. Even though Ginter has done nothing but shown thse people they are wrong, their hubris still won't allow them to concede that fact.

 

I HATED Helms last year, but knew better than to claim he had anything but a decent year last season. Perhaps it's time for the other camp to do the same for Ginter.

[xisxisxis]

First of all, I would like to here a rational explanation for how a player could actually be BETTER as a pinch hitter/utility player. I can appreciate a hitter that pitchers don't know, but it doesn't take that many PA for a team to know how to approach a batter. Unless proven otherwise I completely reject the possibility outright.

 

Many players have huge splits depending on whether they are hitting Left or right handed pitchers. Usually Pinch hitters are in the game because of a favorable matchup with a pitcher and sometimes utility/platoon players are in the game when the pitching matchup favors them. So it isn't entirely impossible for a player to do better in limited time because he is usually only playing when he has a matchup advantage.

 

I am not saying that is the case with Ginter, just that it can happen and does happen. Same reason that platoon players often don't hit as good when they are full-time players because they play against good and bad pitching matchups.

[homer]

Quote:

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First of all, I would like to here a rational explanation for how a player could actually be BETTER as a pinch hitter/utility player.

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As opposed to a rational explanation, I'll give you another example: Brooks Kieschnick. Do you think if he started everyday he'd have an OPS over 1.000?

[homer]

Quote:

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And yes, I believe KG would produce an OPS of between .800 and .900 while playing a full season.

---

 

 

I hope you're right.

[rluzinski]

Many players have huge splits depending on whether they are hitting Left or right handed pitchers.

 

Point taken, although what I was trying to refute was the notion that some players are simply a better hitters overall when not playing everyday (independant of the matchup). If I did misunderstand, and the Ginter haters WERE refuring to his splits, they are STILL wrong.

 

Ginters splits for the last 3 years.

 

Vs. Leftys: 99 AB; .719 OPS

 

Vs. Righties: 341 AB; .791 OPS

 

Atleast I don't see it.

 

 

 

Kieschnick has 20 AB, his stats mean nothing. Not to mention he's faced only 11 lefiesin the last 3 years.

 

But you already know that.