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7-2-2004: Brewers (Wise) @ Pirates (Fogg) - GAME 2

MassBrew

By MassBrew,
in Archived Game Threads

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RyDogg66 ACL Brewers

RyDogg66

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Posted
Posted

Please. The fact that luck exists in baseball and the belief that clutch hitters exist are entirely unrelated. I agree that baseball is a mental game as well as a physical one. But that doesn't mean that myths like the "clutch hitter" are true.

 

Bill - I agree with a lot of things you bring up but I just can't let this one go.

 

One of the biggest characteristics of an athletes ability is his ability to "clutch up" or perform under pressure. Believe me, in every sport, when the game is on the line, in Baseball, Basketball, Football, etc. there is a third baseman praying that the ball is not hit to him, a pinch hitter hoping he doesnt get the call, a shooting guard hoping the coach isnt drawing up a play with his number on it with 2.1 left on the clock, and a WR that hopes the deep post to the endzone is run by the X receiver, not the Z. Mental toughness is a huge part of the game. Hitting in clutch situations a mental thing and to pretend that it doesnt exist is silly. I am not saying that the 2004 BRewers are not clutch, per se, but the mental aspect of the game is there in every nook and cranny. Just as much as luck and addition and subtraction.

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PeaveyFury Biloxi Shuckers

PeaveyFury

Community Moderator
Posted
Posted

Maybe this crap is good for a wake-up call??

 

http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/mad.gif

 

http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/sick.gif

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batman First Round Pick

batman

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Posted
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From Rob Neyer (link):

 

First, it should be noted that by "clutch hitters," all the analysts are thinking of players who perform better under pressure than when not under pressure. This is the standard, I think, although one can certainly argue that a good clutch hitter is a hitter who hits well under pressure, regardless of what he does the rest of the time. However, by that definition, the best clutch hitters would almost always the best hitters, period. At least within the range of statistical chance.

 

And speaking of statistical chance, we already know that some hitters have performed particularly well under pressure. We would expect this, for the same reason that if you flip a coin one hundred times, over and over again, eventually you'll get heads 75 times in 100. The question here is whether hitters who have hit well under pressure will hit well. And as I've been saying, no such tendency has been demonstrated, at least not to my satisfaction.

 

Anyway, Jeff, you're right. People perform in the clutch every day, and in many capacities. What happens to people who perform well under pressure in their jobs? Right, they tend to be promoted, and then promoted again.

 

What are major league baseball players? Essentially, they're athletes who have been promoted as far as they can be promoted. There is no higher league. You know what I think? I think that in the great majority of cases, baseball players who can't handle pressure simply don't reach the major leagues. Those guys get weeded out on the way up, because in essence every professional at-bat is a "pressure situation." Wouldn't you agree that standing at home plate with thousands of eyes watching, and a behemoth throwing a baseball 95 miles an hour at you from 60 feet away, is a "pressure situation"?

 

If you can relax, stay focused in that situation, even if it's the first inning and the bases are empty, is it a giant leap to stay relaxed and focused in the bottom of the ninth with the winning run in scoring position? I respectfully submit that it's not.

 

You know what else? I think that this obsession sports fans have with "clutch hitters" and "money players" is yet another manifestation of what I will call our "need for explanation." We humans simply aren't content with thoughtless gods like Dame Fortune and The Great Unknowable. They scare us. Give us the willies, the creepy-crawlies.

 

So we invent mythical creatures like "the clutch hitter," in hopes that maybe the dreaded Imps of Ramdomland will leave us alone, at least while we're watching the ballgame in the presumed safety of our own homes.

 

Hey, I'm keeping an open mind, just like I have an open mind when it comes to the Loch Ness Monster, and Bigfoot, and flying saucers piloted by little green men. But you know, it's funny; people offer, as evidence, blurry photos of those things, and when you look at them, really look at them with the tools available to men of science, you find out that the Loch Ness Monster is a log in the vague shape of plesiosaur, Bigfoot is a big guy in a monkey suit, and the flying saucer is a flying Frisbee.

 

And if you look, really look at the "evidence" of clutch hitting as a true ability rather than happenstance, you find out that, at best, it's a bunch of blurry photos, in the form of poorly constructed studies presented by people who desperately want to believe.

 

Like I said, I'm keeping an open mind. But to this point, all I've seen are blurry photos. When you've got more than that, you'll know where to find me. I'll be home watching "The X-Files," waiting for the episode where Mulder thinks he's finally found a real clutch hitter, and Scully doesn't believe him. The truth is out there.

 

--

 

What he said.

 

~Bill

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batman First Round Pick

batman

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Posted
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I don't want to talk about clutch hitting anymore. I don't want to talk about how much Ben Grieve sucks. I don't want to talk about sweep suits, or 2001, or how much I hate the Pirates.

 

What this thread needs is more Anna Benson.

 

http://www.annabenson.net/gallery/gall2j.jpg

 

Before anyone makes an angry post or starts a bitter argument, just think of the children... err, rather think of Anna Benson.

 

Thanks, MassBrew... I think we all needed that.

 

~Bill

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nikip43 Prep Ball

nikip43

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Posted
Posted

things are going to get better....the sun's going to shine again!!!

 

it happens, Pittsburg is just playing fantastic ball right now by sweeping the first place Cards and now dealing the Crew two losses.

 

This team has two games until Chicago...here's hoping they forget this Friday and go into the next game....I guess the goood thing about losing two games in one day is that you only have to relive it for one night.

 

Saturday will bring new (recycled) light again hopefully

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obobo55 College Ball

obobo55

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Posted
Posted

I am sure for those that settled in to watch these games it was invredibly frustrating, but jeez.......the doom and gloom here is pathetic.

 

The team is still tied for 3rd with the 5th best record in the NL. Only 2 games out of the wild-card--losses happen, as lomg as they rebound and prevent it from becoming a 5-6 game losing streak all will be OK.

 

Let's go WES!!!

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colbyjack Wisconsin Timber Rattlers

colbyjack

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Posted
Posted

Let me play the role of JaNelson tonight by reminding the Brewers that the 13-man pitching staff is ridiculous already. Kieschnick, Wise, and Burba were all very rusty coming in -- heck, Kinney hasn't pitched in what, 13 days?

 

You mean the role of pointing out when & how the Brewers will fall so fast because they're playing way over their heads?

 

Sorry, every time this point has been brought up this year it's because they have faced brief periods of adversity. I have been amazed at the teams consistency all year. The 5-game win streak was somewhat of an aberration for this team, who took several games to get 2, then 3, then 4, then 5, and so on, games over .500. They haven't won too many games in a row, despite their recent 5 game win streak, but they haven't lost too many games in a row either. They have won in April, May & June, they have won at home & on the road. The splits aren't painfully disturbing as they just have been incredibly consistent all season.

 

I've called this team the past couple of years team streak, because they have had some nasty Jeckyl & Hyde impersonations. When they've been on, they're unstoppable. When they're off, they're horrible. This year they have been amazingly consistent, and simlar to Scott Podsednik's success last year, just when you think they're going to hit the tank, they bounce back and improve a game or two from where they were before.

 

Basically, there's no reason to panic even after a couple of crappy performances today. I'm not saying anyone is, but I am incredibly impressed with the team's constitution to not fall victim of the spiralling losing streak that has stricken the Brewers so many times in the past. At least not yet.

 

In a nutshell, since the Brewers long homestand in mid-June they have taken 2 from the Astros, 2 from the Mariners, 2 from the Twins, only 1 from the Rockies (when several thought was the downward turning point for the Brewers series) only to bounce back by taking 2 more from the Twins & sweeping the Rockies at home. There are 2 more games to be played in this series, & then it's on to the mighty Cubs. Show some faith, as few expected the Brewers to be even this good at this point in the season, and I'm loving the fact that they keep proving people wrong, even the most die-hard & knowledagble fans.

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DuWayne Steurer Wisconsin Timber Rattlers

DuWayne Steurer

Brewer Fanatic Contributor
Posted
Posted

holy crap, we lost a double header immediately after a 5 game winning streak and the rats are diving off the sinking ship faster than you can blink an eye.

 

I was one of the most critical fans in the early going, and have even been labelled a pessimist by many, concerning our Brewers. I thought this was a 70 win team at best coming into the season, and still think they're going to fight to get to 75-80.

 

HOWEVER, I just can't understand all the doom and gloom here! (Did I just say that?) They're still 5 games over. They're still in 3rd place. So they got their asses whooped. It happens, and it's gonna happen a fair number of times over 162. To everybody.

 

We know the Pirates are tough on the Crew. Let's hope this is an abberation, and let's not assume that this is 2001 all over again and that it's the preface to a tailspin into oblivion.

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nikip43 Prep Ball

nikip43

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

this team has been very consistant this year like it was pointed out above...

 

no excuses, go into tommorow's game and win...don't worry about splitting the series, just win tommorow and go on from there

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