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7/11/2004 - Brewers (Santos) vs. Reds (Acevedo)

brewcrewkid14

By brewcrewkid14,
in Archived Game Threads

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batman First Round Pick

batman

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So Yost should realize that even though Kinney was brought in two other times in this series to work out of big jams and did so successfully?

 

It depends on how highly you value those previous two relief appearances relative to his other 15 relief appearances. Taken as a whole, he has been below average at preventing inherited runners from scoring.

 

I'm sure Nedley didn't even look at those numbers, though, as he has on several occasions noted that he doesn't look at stats; most recently on July 7th in a Tom Haudricourt Notes Column:

 

Manager Ned Yost, who doesn't pay much attention to statistics, figured that Grieve's numbers had been climbing.

 

"I know they're up there," Yost said. "That's why he's playing so much."

 

So I would assume that Yost placed a lot of value on Kinney's last two appearances and very little on previous appearances in which the results were different.

 

Regardless, the hit from Valentin was a seeing-eye bouncer. If that ball is a few feet in either direction, he might have gotten out of the inning.

 

~Bill

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Oregon Brew Prep Ball

Oregon Brew

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Every one is blamming the pitching today. Sure Adams gave up the 2 run blast to Pena( who should of been walked to face the light hitting Hummel) but Adams came in with runners at 2nd and 3rd with 2 outs in a one run game.

 

The Reds have scored 6 unanswered runs. The offense is not doing it today. Sure we scored 5 in the first but have not gotten a hit since the bottom of the 3rd. The Brewers just assumed the game was over with 5 in the 1st.

 

The Crew is going to blow this game.

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DuWayne Steurer Wisconsin Timber Rattlers

DuWayne Steurer

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If that ball is a few feet in either direction, he might have gotten out of the inning

 

I gotta take issue with this, only because so many people are using the hypothetical angle quite a bit here lately. This isn't so much directed at just you Bill, but I get tired of seeing

 

"1/8th of an inch further up the barrel, and that ball was gone"

 

"2 feet to the left, and that's a double play ball"

 

"a foot higher, and that's over the shortstop's glove"

 

People have been throwing these out A LOT lately, as if these hypotheticals don't also apply to the other teams.

 

Hell, the Reds could say the same thing about the first inning, couldn't they?

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batman First Round Pick

batman

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Hell, the Reds could say the same thing about the first inning, couldn't they?

 

Sure, but what's the pitchers job? To get a groundball. All of the DIPS work has demonstrated that pitchers have little control over whether balls in play are converted into outs... as long as they keep the ball in the ballpark and on the ground, and limit walks, they will do okay. In this case, Kinney got Valentin to bounce weakly into the hole between first and second. He did his job. The defense just wasn't in position to make the play.

 

That's why luck has such a big impact on baseball games. Its one thing if that hit is a line shot, or even a humpback liner like Jimenez'. But it wasn't. Sometimes, you just gotta throw up your hands and hang with 'em.

 

~Bill

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Brewer Fever First Round Pick

Brewer Fever

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And Wes Helms had no business being in the lineup today. He is more lost up there than Bennett.

 

It's time to swallow the pride and admit that the Wes Helms pet project has failed. People look for a spot to get better...there it is. Get us a 3rd baseball who can hit.

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DuWayne Steurer Wisconsin Timber Rattlers

DuWayne Steurer

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Well, that wasn't what I was getting at Bill. My point is that we're seeing these "if only" comments popping up all the time lately.

 

I mean, hey, everyone's entitled to their opinion, and I'm not even disagreeing, but you can't just keep saying "if only" "if only" "if only"............

 

EVERY team has luck, good and bad. Every team sees slow bouncers get through the hole. Every team has to deal with the same vaguaries of chance, and saying "if only" doesn't change it.

 

Again, Bill, I'm not singling you out, it's just that yours was the comment that finally made me say something about it.

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batman First Round Pick

batman

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BTW, its nice to see John Vander Wal back healthy and in the big leagues. He was a good Brewer, and a solid representative of the organization in the community. Its great that he was able to bounce back from that freak knee injury... lots of hard work, I'm sure, and the fact that he's back in the big leagues is a testament to his perseverence.

 

Kudos to you, Vandy!

 

I just wish you wouldn't have hit a double. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

 

~Bill

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batman First Round Pick

batman

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I agree with you, Roco.

 

EVERY team has luck, good and bad. Every team sees slow bouncers get through the hole. Every team has to deal with the same vaguaries of chance, and saying "if only" doesn't change it.

 

The thing is, though, that in this case folks were debiting Matt Kinney because of that base hit. My point was that he didn't do anything wrong, and therefore didn't deserve said debiting. It happens to every pitcher and every team, and it happened to Acevedo in the first. You're 100% right. But it doesn't change the fact that Kinney has been a very solid reliever and that he did his job against Valentin. We just got a bad break. If that ball had been caught and the side retired, would folks be praising Kinney? Probably. But there wasn't really any difference between those two scenarios other than a few feet of defensive positioning.

 

That's all I'm saying.

 

~Bill

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Brewer Fever First Round Pick

Brewer Fever

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Hopefully Vizzy can get us out of this unscathed and then Jenks gets to lead off the inning...something he's actually had success with. And then with Overbay, we have a shot to get something going. We probably gonna need to get something out of the bottom of the lineup in order to win this thing. The 8th inning is gonna be key...maybe we'll see Grieve.
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DuWayne Steurer Wisconsin Timber Rattlers

DuWayne Steurer

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Bill, I agree with you 100%, especially about Kinney being good (decent) out of the pen.

 

I wouldn't have gone with Kinney there though, but that's just me.

 

I'm just trying to differntiate between Kinney being ok from the pen, and the constant "turn back the clock" stuff that we keep hearing.

 

I mean, honestly, by reading our game threads (aside from Obermuellers starts) you'd swear that every opposing hit is a slow roller or blooper, and every opposing homer has been a wall scraper that just barely made it over.

 

Overall, Kinney's not a good pitcher. He shouldn't have been in in that situation, and that's more Ned's fault than anything.

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