07/15/2004: Brewers (Davis) at Cubs (Prior)

[clancyphile]

JoeHova

 

Simply because he can fetch the most right now.

 

The Brewers need a catcher and a third-base prospect. With Spivey hurt, is there any other Brewer who could be dealt for anything significant?

[endaround]

So trade a cheap above average strating pitcher? What else can the Brewers trade? Vizcaino, Kolb, Burba.

[DuWayne Steurer]

What's Santos going to "fetch"?

 

I'm sure other GM's would have it in the back of their minds that this could VERY well be a fluke from Santos this year. Even if they don't, they aren't going to give up a whole lot to get him, given that he's not exactly tearing it up. He's got an ERA over 4, and can't pitch worth a CRAP during the day.

[rluzinski]

why the hell do you keep harping on this? Did Santos sleep with your mom or something? He's been pitching well and he's cheap, why dump him?

 

Clancy HAS to be HARPING about something OVER AND OVER AN OVERRRRRRRR. It's like a rule or something.

[batman]

RoCo, I know you can't *just* walk to score runs, but we did get five hits tonight. That's 14 baserunners. If some of those walks were "refused" and instead the batter was "aggressive" and tried to get a hit, who's to say they would have reached base at all? We'd probably just see more Jenkins' at-bats that result in 4-3 rollers.

 

Ginter and Podsednik both doubled. Put a couple walks before one of them and we have an additional run or two. Add a single and we've tied it up. We had the component parts tonight, in other words, we just didn't "put them together" well. That will be a problem on some nights, but it doesn't mean our offense shoulder alter its approach. If Jenkins and Helms would manage a few extra-base hits and Overbay would continue hitting doubles, we've got enough ammunition to drive home baserunners.

 

The offense has problems, no doubt. But its because some of our players aren't very good, not because we drew nine walks tonight and only got one run.

 

~Bill

[Member]

why the hell do you keep harping on this?

 

Because, Clancy can only think of one thing at a time, for weeks at a time.

 

Give him some time and he'll go on to harping on something else for weeks on end. Sort of like the weather.

[DuWayne Steurer]

The offense has problems, no doubt. But its because some of our players aren't very good, not because we drew nine walks tonight and only got one run.

 

I know Bill. I was hoping that you'd see my weak attempt at humor for what it was. I'm certainly not saying that walking 9 times was a detriment to scoring runs at all. It's just that walks *in and of themselves* are not going to get the job done.

 

And this goes back to the "OBP is 50% more important than SLG%" argument.

 

I'd say that OBP is *more* important, but certainly not 50% more important.

 

And you said it yourself. With a few doubles, and if Jenks and Helms were getting extra base hits, those walks would be coming around to score.

 

We need some sluggers.

 

Period.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Brewers are 14th in the NL in runs scored.

 

They're 10th in OBP

 

They're 14th in SLG%.

 

There's a common denominator there, and I'm *pretty* sure that the Crew is close to the bottom in scoring not because of their OBP, but because we can't slug for ****.

 

There's a reason OXS is 97.5% accurate, and I'm sure a bit of it is because it weights SLG% and OBP evenly.

[batman]

Yep.

 

~Bill

[DuWayne Steurer]

And sorry if I came across a bit snotty here Bill, but as I'm sure everyone is, I'm a BIT disgusted that we put a small village on the basepaths, but refused to bring them in. The frustration just boiled over a bit is all. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/happy.gif

[950opsLHcatcher]

The frustration just boiled over a bit is all.

 

Eat your damn cheese sandwich.

[DuWayne Steurer]

http://frey.pp.jippii.fi/~burke/homer/homer.gif

 

mmmm..............cheese sandwich...........

[DHonks]

We're not seeing the end result. Why? No hitting. Why? No sluggers

 

forget the part about sluggers, and you're right. If we have people on second all night (like tonight), and a team of 8 mark Loretta's were to come up to bat, they'd likely score 4 or more runs.

 

As for the comments by Clancy about selling off the parts....WHY? this was one loss. Last I checked we have allowed more runs than we've scored, but we're over .500. As far as I'm concerned, we have a chance to sweep the final three games of the series.

Why sell off parts? Do we need more AA/A+ fringe prospects for guys like Ginter, Helms, Spivey, Burba, Vizcaino, Kolb, Davis and Santos? I'm sick and tired of landing AA/A+ fringe guys who will be lucky to ever put up decent numbers in AAA. Let's buckle down and make a run here, cause we've got a Cards team playing over their heads, a Cubs team with major question marks surrounding the health of their Aces, a Reds team with serious injuries and no pitching staff, and then the most talented team in the division just fired their manager. We aren't out of this thing, and we have no reason to sell off any parts.

[batman]

Rumors are floating that Mark Prior has been hurting since at least his last start. Anybody want to place odds on whether or not he has a torn ligament in his elbow? I'd say its got to be at least 25/75 right now.

 

Talk about a tough loss for the Cubs if that is indeed true. Maybe they'll get RJ for themselves instead of pawning him off for Nomar.

 

~Bill

[950opsLHcatcher]

Maybe the Twins aren't looking as stupid for drafting Joe Mauer right now, not that he's been healthy this year, either. Who went third in that draft?

 

If your team walks nine times, nine times out of ten, you'll score more than one run. It's frustrating, but I have a sneeking suspicion the offense will turn out to be better than they are right now.

[batman]

01. Joe Mauer - Twins [C, high school]

02. Mark Prior - Cubs [P, USC]

03. Dewon Brazelton - DRays [P, MTSU]

04. Gavin Floyd - Phillies [P, high school]

05. Mark Teixeira - Rangers [3B, GA Tech]

06. Josh Karp - Expos [P, UCLA]

07. Chris Smith - Orioles [P, Cumberland]

08. John Van Benschoten - Pirates [P, Kent State]

09. Colt Griffin - Royals [P, high school]

 

Other notables include Mike Jones at 11, Casey Kotchman at 14, Bobby Crosby at 25, Jeremy Bonderman at 26, and David Wright at 38 (among others).

 

Interesting.

 

~Bill

[PeaveyFury]

These guys just aren't good enough, folks. Playoff-caliber teams score runs.

 

Like the Cubs.

 

 

 

Oh wait....

 

And may I just say that if people consider Ned Yost's in-game managing to be bad, then they must consider Dusty Baker to be downright awful, because there's no way around the fact that Dusty is pretty freakin clueless as an in-game guy.

[950opsLHcatcher]

Peavy brings up a good point...

 

Who's a good in-game manager?

 

No one springs to my mind right away. All I can think of is guys who I don't like.

[bjkrautk]

Quote:

---

Rumors are floating that Mark Prior has been hurting since at least his last start. Anybody want to place odds on whether or not he has a torn ligament in his elbow? I'd say its got to be at least 25/75 right now.

---

 

According to the radio programs I heard on the drive home, apparently Prior has had the same sort of discomfort in the elbow since Spring Training. I can't help but think of Viscaino last year, and wonder just how much of that discomfort the training staff knew about.

 

This was my first game at Wrigley Field (my uncle had extra tickets)....a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there. The crowd at tonight's game made last year's games at Miller Park seem evenly attended. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif You can't help but get caught up in the history of the place....but by the time you realize Glendon Rusch has suddenly become a dominant pitcher....it just feels like any other baseball game. Oh, and one of the main reasons that so many Cubs fans go to games in Milwaukee is that there are actually places to park here....to say nothing of Chicago traffic.

 

I really thought the Brewers were going to pull it out when Kieschnick stepped up to the plate. And, BTW, If anyone can explain to me the call when Jenkins had the runner at third beat by a step or two....and the glove was in place to make the tag....I'd love to hear what the announcers said about that play.

[jwaltz]

I hate to sound like a sadist but even though we lost the game we might have won the war with Prior going down. While I like Prior I have no sympathy for the Cubs. They got what they deserved for letting Dusty abuse their pitchers. Zambrano. You're next!!! It's possible the best thing that could happen to Prior is being shut down for the season. This would allow him to heal properly and without Dusty constantly abusing his arm.

[MarquesJohnson2000]

I don't think Prior's arm has been "abused" this season, they've kept him on a pretty strict pitch count and were VERY cautious about bringing him back after the injury. He hadn't even thrown 100 pitches in a game this year.

 

Meanwhile, I read somewhere that Zambrano asked to throw 150 pitches in a game.. I'm not sure of the context.

[endaround]

Though he tries to be too cute at times, LaRussa is a good in game manager. Torre doesn't do much during the regular season (because in general he doesn't need to), but in the postseason he is an excellent in game manager.

 

And I don't understand the dig about the Cubs not scoring runs. They are 7th in the NL, which isn't great but hardly on par with the Brewers.

[batman]

The thing about finding in-game managers that you like is that most of us don't see very many games of teams that aren't the Brewers. We get a good feel for the divisional opponents, but even that is not a real, day-in-day-out perspective on what the manager does in certain situations. You can get a pretty good "executive summary" of how someone handles their club, but unless you watch the team every day and really pay attention, its hard to separate the good from the bad.

 

That said, a few of the managers that I find to be solid tacticians (mostly in small samples, mind you) are Eric Wedge, Carlos Tosca, and Buck Schowalter. All three are way down on the list in intentional walks given, sacrifice hits, and stolen base attempts. I think Lou Piniella is very good, too.

 

The only managers I see consistently, however, are Baker, LaRussa, Miley, Sacrifice Jimy, and Stealin' Lloyd. I don't really like any of them with the exception of Miley, who also seems to have problems handling his bullpen. I don't think there's a manager I'd rather have in the NL Central than Nedley, warts and all.

 

~Bill