Doug = Schuerholz?

[GenoSeligPrieb]

Hijacking a very long thread to morph a new direction to the discussion...

 

Peavey said last night:

 

"...(We gave up) our #2 position prospect in Nelson Cruz, and we all know how well that ended up working for the Brewers. Not that Inman is going to stink for sure, but the fact that the Brewers were willing to give him up speaks volumes, IMO."

 

It does.

 

I worked this angle around in my cabeza the last few days. Are we becoming the new Braves lately?

 

Think of it: The Brewers farm system has begun to develop a terrific reputation. Reid Nichols is obviously feeding MLB-caliber talent, All Stars in some cases, to the parent club. After a very bare cupboard for years, other GMs are now asking for Milwaukee's nuggets in trades. They may be forming the opinion that (all?!...OK, most?) Brewers minor leaguers = quality.

 

So I say we let them.

 

Throughout the 90's, anytime a Braves nugget was tossed into a deal, the Peter Gammonses and Paul Whites, instead of actually doing some in-depth homework on the guys, just labeled them as future stars, on reputation alone.

 

Melvin Nieves, David Nied, George Lombard, John Foster, Bruce Chen, Jose Capellan, Micah Bowie, Terrell Wade, yes, even Ruben Quevedo, and Wes Helms! ... none matched the hype they were accorded by media creatures who breathlessly predicted stardom.

 

And which nuggets did John Schuerholz refuse to part with as readily? Ones who contributed to successful Atlanta playoff teams throughout their 20's and beyond in some cases, like Chipper, Andruw, Rafael Furcal, Mark DeRosa, Marcus Giles...ya know, legit MLB contributors.

 

And how often have we been told that the Brewers have admired the Atlanta organization?

 

To me, this all means perhaps we shouldn't have as much to fear from sending away the likes of Inman, Thatcher and Garrison. Over the past few years, Doug DID keep the right ones, like JJ, Braun, Prince, etc., right?

 

Moreover, lately it seems that when a well-heraled Brewer youngster is traded by Doug, Gord, Reid, etc. their performances at their new career stops haven't been coming back to nip us on the tookis: Nelson Cruz, JDLR, Enrique Cruz, Dave Krynzel, Dana Eveland, Jose Capellan, Ben Hendricksen...

 

I guess this is along-winded way of illustrating that our scouting/minor league development guys have been pretty accurately guiding Doug to either keep a nugget at all costs, or to deem his as expendable. They're established an impressive track record over the past few years, and the odds are showing that they'll probably be right, when it comes to Inman, Thatcher and Garrison, too.

[pogokat]

I think you are right Geno---

 

It's just hard tto trade away guys that you really value like Inman... Doug has been very shrewd with his trades and i see no reason to think that he wasn't here as well..

[PeaveyFury]

I think it's an interesting comparison. As I said before, we haven't gotten even close to the worse end of a trade to this point, and I have every confidence in our scouting/front office staff, so it'll be interesting to see what Inman ends up doing.

 

That said, the Braves probably do get more hype being in both a larger market that has already won a ton while developing some great players, but with some winning and our guys hopefully sticking and continuing to dominate in the Majors, hopefully we can get to the Braves' status as far as perception.

[brettac1]

Well, I think Schuerholz is pretty incomparable, just based on the amazing run that his team has had for 15+ years, plus his run in KC.

 

I have been saying for a few years now that I envision Melvin/Yost to have run of longevity along the same lines as Schuerholz/Cox has had, though. If the player development/roster management blueprint they are following is Twins/A's, I think the front office and managerial blueprint (that being stability) is that of the Braves.

[GenoSeligPrieb]

Perhaps, but significant factors were built into Atlanta's success over those 15 years, such as:

 

a) A superstation to broadcast positive stories about playing in Atlanta, being able all these years to have your dad follow you just by getting basic cable, and overhype for Atlanta's nuggets.

 

b) The financial resources of Ted Turner's billions. Throughout their run, the Braves were pretty much always in the top 5 or 10 in payroll, which helped them retain potential free agents, and to lure in gaudy upgrades like an in-his-prime Andres Galarraga for a still-very-solid Fred McGriff, and the ability to pay top dollar to Sheffield to replace Brian Jordan.

 

c) Incompetent and/or underfunded division rivals. Any team with the Expos/Nationals in it for the last 10 years has more than a dozen gimmes built into their schedule....that is, unless they're the 2007 Brewers. The Marlins showed flashes of lucidity, however those years were immediately followed by ridiculous fire sales. The Mets, only until recently, hadn't spent wisely, peeing money away on guys who didn't deserve it anymore. And the Phillies are always cursed with key injuries and/or a GM who's not on the ball, and/or ownership which occasionally dictates to throw in the towel early on a season, a la the White Sox A's have.

 

I guess I was just saying that I'm glad other teams covet our nuggets, and we've been tending to keep the better ones. Think of when was the last time the Brewers traded away a nugget, and he turned into an All-Star? That tells me Doug & Co. are trading the right guys when they do dig into the farm system, right?

[TheCrew07]

I agree with your points Geno, but the flip side is that how many nuggets did they really have to trade away? Hart maybe was the only one of the current young crop who there was some doubt would ever get the playing time in Milwaukee. Most of those guys got a chance in Milwaukee and failed. JDLR would be good here and there, but his numbers in the minors were never jaw dropping, just his stuff was. Eveland looked good early in Milwaukee, and faded... Enrique Cruz only spent any time in Milwaukee because he was a rule 5.. Nelson Cruz was pretty old for his leagues when he started to succceed, granted he was up there when he was traded, but he wasn't hyped by anyone I remember other than the people here at Brewerfan. Hendrickson was the only one who dominated most of his minor league career, but Melvin didn't sell high with him, they let him fail in Milwaukee before shipping him out. Inman is the first prospect of any significance to be traded by the current front office, it will be interesting to see how it turned out. I liked Thatcher quite a bit as well, but he wasn't a top prospect, it's tough for relievers to attain that status.

[GenoSeligPrieb]

Nice reply, The Crew...especially this:

 

"Hendrickson was the only one who dominated most of his minor league career, but Melvin didn't sell high with him, they let him fail in Milwaukee before shipping him out."

 

Can't argue with that one. Classic case of waiting too long and being forced to sell low. I still believe we could have dumped a few other nuggets before they went sour, as it was with Brad Nelson and Dave Krynzel, and got perhaps a better return for them when their hype was still high.

 

"Nelson Cruz was pretty old for his leagues when he started to succceed, granted he was up there when he was traded, but he wasn't hyped by anyone I remember other than the people here at Brewerfan."

 

That last qualifier is key here: "...other than the people here at Brewerfan."

 

Sure, there are many here who are tearing their hair out with the departure of Inman, as a "top 3 prospect, if not our #1 overall." But is the rest of MLB, its fans, sportwriters, scouts...ya know, the baseball community laughing at the Brewers for trading away a Wil Inman? Not that I've seen.

 

As I've noted before, by default, EVERY franchise has a #1 minor league prospect, some of whom could only rank, like 13th if they were traded to a very rich farm system.

 

I looked at the Inman trade, and shrugged my shoulders, because a) he was still far away from helping the parent club, if ever, b) Doug and his staff tend to know what they're doing, and c) I saw Braun as our #1 this year, Gallardo as our #2, and Villanueva as our #3 prosepct, and thankfully so far, they HAVE panned out. Not all nuggets do, and the dice were still being rolled on Inman.

 

That's why it didn't bother me. That, and the fact that I have confidence in Linebrink...which is a lot more than I have for CoCoCo these days.

[homer]

Quote:

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But is the rest of MLB, its fans, sportwriters, scouts...ya know, the baseball community laughing at the Brewers for trading away a Wil Inman? Not that I've seen.

---

 

Actually some guy at BP called Melvin's move the worst trade of the season so far (the link is buried somewhere in the Linebrink trade thread). I'm not so sure I agree with that assessment but it's a third party stating their case in any event.

 

But I do think you have some very valid points Geno. I think part of the negative reaction has to do with the fact that until very recently the Brewers protected prospects like they were the gold at Fort Knox. It's a big change of pace to see them actually trading nuggets for talent.