6/20/05 Cubs (Maddux) vs. Brewers (Ohka) 7:05pm

[scoop53714]

how the hell do you blame clark for baserunning mistakes when he was safe on both counts? The umpire screwed clark twice and it likely cost us the game. Bradys mishandling of the base hit late in the game was huge but he was safe at 2nd both times. We got jobbed.

[RyDogg66]

Well, if Clark doesn't risk getting thrown out when we were down 3 runs in the first, and two runs later in the game (when his single run meant nothing) then the umpire would not have been in position to make a bad call.

 

We have been consistently making or giving away 2 outs a game on the basepaths, while giving the other team 2 extra outs in the field.

 

playing 25 outs to 29 outs isn't going to win you much.

[brewmann04]

what cost us the game even if Brady stole the base

The LACK of Clutch Hitting

[clancyphile]

AJ Love

 

You just hit on one big thing - probably one of the things that Ned Yost has done well: This is a team that doesn't quit - and that attitude is something Yost has created.

 

Remember that game last year, when the Crew was down 5 in the ninth with two out, but came back to tie - and then went on to win in 14 innings?

 

Or those times when Bill Hall made some very big clutch hits last year? That, I think, was Ned Yost simply changing the tone (for lack of a better term) of the team.

[RyDogg66]

If there is anything this team hasnt quit doing, its making mental and fundamental mistakes.

[clancyphile]

RyDogg66

 

From what I gather, the umps gave the Cubs at least one out. Remember the time in Spring Training they called interference on Cirillo? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/mad.gif

[PrimetimeHater]

I agree...there are so many things to look at in one run decisions. That double play that Miller hit into was definitely disheartening though...Cubs got very lucky on that one...oh well. Anyways, I have to say I was impressed that Ohka settled down and pitched well after the first inning. He's going to be a great pick up.

[xisxisxis]

If there is anything this team hasnt quit doing, its making mental and fundamental mistakes.

 

Clancyphile: "From what I gather, the umps gave the Cubs at least one out."

 

xisxisxis: "Don't forget, the Padres beat the Dodgers behind 13K from Jake Peavy."

[scoop53714]

Quote:

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Well, if Clark doesn't risk getting thrown out when we were down 3 runs in the first, and two runs later in the game (when his single run meant nothing) then the umpire would not have been in position to make a bad call.[/quote

 

Uhm.....worst argument ever. Remind me not to hire you for my attorney. Blaming the victim for putting themselves in position to be screwed over? Nice concept. Maybe Brady was dressed to sexy and ASKED to be mistreated. Good call. Wow. So its ok for the ump to make a clearly incorrect call if was a risky play to begin with? No. Sorry. Clark was clearly safe on both plays and the ump ble

---

[clancyphile]

PrimetimeHater

 

Yeah, I am pretty impressed, too. He has no fear of challenging hitters. It does give the Brewers a lot of room in the rotation as well.

 

The real issue is consistency from the offense now. When Branyan returns, that will help.

[xisxisxis]

So its ok for the ump to make a clearly incorrect call if was a risky play to begin with? No. Sorry. Clark was clearly safe on both plays and the ump ble

 

No it isn't ok for the ump to ble it. Bad calls even out over a 162 game schedule so I don't think you should ever make an excuse that you lost a game because of bad calls. What was plainly obvious is that Ned is a moron for continuing to run Brady and yet he leads the Universe in CS. I guess if your theory is that CS are random event then it's fine to continue to run a sloth because eventually the SB will come, but I don't think anyone has shown that baserunning is completely a random chance event. Somebody should inform Nedly.

 

 

Uhm.....worst argument ever. Remind me not to hire you for my attorney.

 

I don't think you could afford him so that's the weakest argument ever. No thank you! I don't want your stinking Mercedes, my Yugo is just fine.

[RyDogg66]

Come on scoop, that isnt what I am saying at all.

 

Down 3 runs in the first inning and already we are trying to stretch singles into doubles?? I know it was only the first inning, but Clark needs to realize that we need more than just his run, and that we need to start a rally. I'd complain about a Cirllo bunt in the first as well.

 

Then I believe they were down 2 runs when Brady tried to steal 2nd base, his run meant jack-squat.

 

What I was saying is that even attempting to take extra bases when you are down 3 in the first, or 2 late in the game is crazy because you need a lot more than one run at that point.

 

Regardless of the call the ump made, it wasnt all that bright to be risking it at those points in the game.

 

Also at both times there were fewer than 2 outs, which makes it less excusable. Clark has shown no ability to take extra bases, he's been thrown out stealing a lot this year. with 2 outs I can see the attempted steal or extra base, because the chances of two hits with 2 outs is slim, but with no outs or one out, just stay at first and let Overbay and Lee do their thing.

[brewmann04]

if they can get Clutch Hits we would be talking about a wild card spot

[JohnBriggs12]

I suspect those criticizing Clark for his baserunning must have been listening to the game and not watching it. He was clearly safe both times and it wasn't really all that close. Even Bob Brenly admitted it on the Cub telecast though he did try to expound some theory about the base being blocked.

 

I do question why Yost wasn't out there protesting. Heck even a mild protest on the first one could have prevented the second. The 2nd base umpire was playing to the pro-Cub crowd and appeared to enjoy calling Clark out both times.

[brewmann04]

excellent point Briggs

[RyDogg66]

I saw the second one, he was safe.

 

That's not my point though. If it were Podsednik, or even Krynzel, I might have a different take on it. But Clark has shown a propensity to get thrown out MORE OFTEN THAN BEING SAFE!! So why steal him at the point to begin with?? If he doesnt go, he doesnt get called out.

 

 

I just wish that someone were held accountable for the terrible base running and other mental mistakes both at the plate (missed bunts) and in the field (a laundry list of things).

[brewmann04]

I agree there has been a lot of base running mistakes ,but the lack of clutch hitting is even worse

[RyDogg66]

Yost can't coach "clutch hitting" - on the other hand, the one thing a coach should be able to do is teach and stress fundamentals. If we've got the gamers, the hard-workers and battlers Yost wants, then why do they keep making fundamental mistkes like this?

[xisxisxis]

I suspect those criticizing Clark for his baserunning must have been listening to the game and not watching it.

 

Those that aren't criticizing Brady running don't seem to understand the following facts:

 

2005 (prior to last night):

 

SB = 8

CS = 7

 

 

He was clearly safe both times and it wasn't really all that close.

 

You might need to get your Brewer goggles check John because the 2nd time was very close, Brady just got under the tag. I'm not saying he was out, both times he was safe, but to say they weren't even close really isn't accurate.

 

 

The 2nd base umpire was playing to the pro-Cub crowd and appeared to enjoy calling Clark out both times.

 

Who was the 2nd base umpire? Have you seen him many times before and his approach to the calls were completely different than before? Did you have a special TV set where you could see inside his head? His angle was bad on both calls and he couldn't see the plays as well as he should have. To accuse him of making the wrong calls because he was influenced by the Cubs fans in attendance is beyond silly.