7/6/05 Brewers (Ohka) @ Marlins (Burnett) 6pm CST

[Brian the Automator]

[ Why don't the Brewers give up on the Wes Obermuller experament? This has gone on way too long. I can't believe this guy still takes up a major league roster spot. ]

 

The guy had a 4.08 ERA coming into the game.... Who's the better option here?

[badgerfan.tgf]

As depressing as this loss was, and I'm sure it would have been much more depressing if I'd seen it, it only counts for one loss. If we win tomorrow we can forget about today and focus on the fact that we won 3 of 4 at Florida.

 

I will agree that it is totally disgusting the way this team gets your hopes up and then goes down 28 times in a row. Seriously, how many times have the Brewers been victim of ridiculous strikeout totals? Maybe I don't notice when it happens to other teams but it seems like we're the worst.

[sgtcluels]

I always cring when the brewers score in the 1st, it just seems like they give up. Stop swining and just play "prevent" defense. We needed this one to get closer to .500 for the break.

[brewizard]

That's the Brewers I know and love (hacking cough)...

 

http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/pimp.gif

[PietroSanGiacomo]

I'd look to the defense in the late innings and the absolute lack of offense after the 3rd before I look to Obie. We didn't put him in until we were low on options, and most long relievers aren't any better than he is anyway.

 

But feel free to vent. You'd think we'd be better at dealing with this by now considering even the best teams lose 60 games, but it sucks that most of ours are reminiscent of kicks to the gonads.

[lithium75]

If you are going to sling blame, blame our offense and defense. The pitchers did just what they are capable of, and Yost didn't do anything too stupid. 28 in a row, and the bone headed defense were both spectacularily bad. I mean really REALLY bad, worse than listening to Tom Arnold, worse than left over McDonald's for lunch, worse than paper cuts on your tongue...

[AJAY]

You can't blame Obermueller. Sooner or later they were going to score off someone anyway. The defense and offense were horrendous. They didn't deserve to win at all.

 

Like another poster said, if they win tomorrow and take 3 out of 4 in Florida, I will be very happy and this loss will be forgotten.

 

Santos better not pull that vampire nonsense tomorrow. No excuses. Get the job done.

[LouisEly]

Quote:

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Why don't the Brewers give up on the Wes Obermuller experament?

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Why don't they give up on the Ricky Bottalico experiment? Why don't they give up on the Julio Santana experiment? Obermueller gave up three singles, one of them an infield single, and two walks, one of them intentional. It's hardly like they were crushing the ball off of him. You could not possibly have watched the game and said that the game should even have gotten to Obie. Two hits and an error in the seventh, that's what killed them. No runs scored the last nine innings - basically the Marlins threw a shutout on the Brewer offense. Check that - they were NO HIT for nine innings. It is almost mathematically impossible to win when you are shut out for nine innings. Four hits in 12 innings. That's pathetic.

 

There's plenty of people to point fingers at for this one, but they should be pointed at a lot of people before they are pointed at Obie.

[rotoherb]

Yost botched it by not using Wise in the eighth inning of a one run ball game. If he was fine to pitch two innings in a tie game then your best setup guy is well enough to pitch one inning with a one run lead. If he needs the rest then don't pitch him at all, but if you are going to use him then get him in there when you have the lead. That and some shabby defense....

[wisportswriter]

How anyone can blame a loss on the manager ("Yost botched it") after a team boots the ball three times and goes 0-for-28 is beyond my capacity.

[rotoherb]

because he did botch it.

 

Look, if your best reliever is available to pitch two innings and you fail to use that reliever until the game is tied, then you failed as a manager regardless of how the defense played. It's quite possible that the poor defense would have lost the game even if Wise was in the game, but Yost still didn't manage very well at all.

[homer]

Quote:

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over under on Brewer hits the rest of the game is 4.

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Eek. I posted this in the second inning. I meant four more hits - not four total.

[Ennder]

So we lose 1 of 3 against a playoff team on the road and we lose it in the 12th inning and suddenly this team looks terrible? I don't get it.

 

We definitely need to polish our game and I agree that this team makes too many mistakes that cost them games, but the reality is they have the talent to play almost every game close, they are one step away from being a legit playoff contending team given how they have played since april.

[H0FFY]

they are one step away from being a legit playoff contending team

 

The problem is, that step is a mental step. I dont know how the heck you make winner out of perennial losers. They have the talent, just not the ???? non-frightenness ????

[BadgerBacker4ever34]

Yost didn't botch sh*t. If the players don't make errors, we win the game. End of story.

[Ennder]

I think we fall one step away on talent and one step away mentally. Next year with one good FA signing, one good trade of overbay and hopefully one good new rookie of Fielder we will have the talent to be a true playoff team. I don't think we make the playoffs next year but we start to learn how to win and the mental process starts. In 2007 we have a real chance at the playoffs, though its not a given. At least thats how I see it.

[And That]

p092.ezboard.com/fbrewers...=576.topic

 

Also, using creative spellings to avoid the cuss filter will result in warning, then dismissal.

 

Yost didn't botch sh*t.

 

Warning warning warning.

[H0FFY]

C'mon all you managers to be: you are in a one run game in the 7th inning. All your relievers are available. You have one guy that can go two innings, that has been absolutely lights out. Just brilliant.

 

You also have a guy you are trying to trade who was ok earlier, but lately has stunk up the joint, and last time you were on a start of a winning streak this guy lit the fire and poured petrol on it - leading to a loss and huge headaches.

 

So, managers-to-be, which way do you go.

 

There are only two reasons you go with the fire-maker-man. The first is you want to trade him, so you care more about a trade than your team winning.

 

The second reason you can choose thr recent fire-make-man is because you follow the school of Davey Lopes, which is: if you fail in a decision, just keep making that same wrong decision over and over again until it works. Then you can thumb your nose at the world and say 'seeee, I am right'.

 

Again, Nedster does have this trait that Lopes has, which is:

 

DO NOT LEARN FROM YOUR MISTAKES

 

Damn shame to lose a game we were in front of late. Damn shame.

[Ennder]

Well Wise is traditionally our setup man and 8th inning guy assuming that is who you were talking about. I have no real problem with saving him for the 8th. Botallico has had one bad game since June 28th and his next truely bad game was on June 11th, so while he hasn't been great this past month or so, he hasn't been terrible either. He allowed a .217 avg against in June with a 3.46 era and 1.23 whip. Santana has been really shaky lately, phelps is the lefty specialist, JDLR has too many control issues, that leaves Wise and Botallico and he was saving Wise for the next inning, I have no real problem with Ned's bullpen use. Every bullpen needs at least 3 reliable guys, the fact that Botallico is proving he's not reliable just gives us a bad bullpen in general.

[wisportswriter]

I feel so foolish as I read this thread. I thought it was pretty obvious that horrible defense and horrific offense were to blame for this ugly loss. I'm glad I've been educated here that a manager's decision on which relief pitcher to bring in was the true cause for loss.

Folks, are you kidding me? Three errors, 22 strikeouts, 28-up-and-28-down, four hits in 12 innings, and we're discussing which reliever was called upon?

[brewerjamie15]

Wow. His third post, and he puts lots of people in their place. Nice job wisportswriter. You called it as it is.

[H0FFY]

You know it is completely illogical to say because we did 'A' badly, therefore wrong decision 'B' does not matter. That is just silly. It is the same logic that simply says 'oh, we are the Brewers, so we are bad, that is just the way it is, accept it'.

 

I refuse to accept it.

 

We should have got away with a win, if Ned had pulled the right strings. To be honest, he would have had to pull EVERY right string as the guys seemed to be doing their best to undo their 3 run lead and their run at .500.

 

I want Ned to be so bloodly brilliant that even his frightened children (the ball players) will end up winners.

 

Again, I explained clearly the choice Ned had. Ned made the wrong choice (logically) just like the players made some bad, bad mental choices throughout the game.

 

It is impossible for this team to have 28 up and 28 down against middle relievers! That can only happen if some mental meltdown is occuring.

 

What amazes me, is that day in and day out, this mob has enough talenet that they need to make many, many mental mistakes and Ned must make many, many mistakes for us to consistently lose. But the players and Ned working together overbalance the talent this squad has. And we are 4 games below .500.

 

To recap, the logic I dislike the most is stuff like: because Billy Hall made a brilliant play in the 2nd, we should expect it to balanced by a passed ball in the 8th to lose the game. Sorry, guys the two are unrelated events. If the events were BALANCED (50% wow good, and 50% oh yuk) I can accept that.

 

But I reiterate. This mob must make multiple gaffs a night in order to overcome (in a bad way) their talent. If they would bloody well relax and have some fun and stop CHOKING they would understand their sporting lives can be better.

[Loopee]

Quote:

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Folks, are you kidding me? Three errors, 22 strikeouts, 28-up-and-28-down, four hits in 12 innings, and we're discussing which reliever was called upon?

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Preach on brother.

 

Can't wait for your 4th post.

[H0FFY]

Man, it is like talking to a statue.

 

The ONE non-pressure, non-CHOKE, 'you have time to think and guarantee the right decision' happening in this game was what reliever to go to. To be honest, Botts should have done the job or we should not have made three errors and we shold not have struck out 20+ times. But all those events happen in the twinkling of an eye and well, they guys are a little tight around the collar in close games.

 

So, the managers need to show the way. For the manager - given all the time and information he has to make a stupid call sends WHAT KIND of message to the teammates.

 

If this was the 7th game of the world series who would Ned have put in there. It would have been Wise.

 

So, yes, it is obvious that this one decision should be discussed.

 

Heck we deserved to lose the game. But many, many times we deserve to WIN but we lose. So we need to snag a few games that we do not deserver. Our leader, Mr Ned, should be a magician to these guys. They should know that Ned will do all he can to overcome any problems the guys are having (mentally or physically).

 

If we had won this game, it would have been a huge boost. If we had won making so many blunders and chokes, the guys would stop being so afraid. Ned missed a big, big, big opportunity. So, the players, instead of reading how they stole a game and their manager played brilliant tactically, leaving nothing in the bank... instead of that they read how they blew a lead and could not get it down and struck out like nobodies and were 28 up and 28 down.

 

If I was 28 up and 28 down I couldnt care less if we still won. I would laugh about it. But given our leaders' ineptitude (they are shopping Botts) to the detriment of the team couple with the 28 up and down, would make me want to hang my head in shame.

 

So, yessir, this is one decision that should be discussed a lot.

[ja002h]

If 3 posts means you don't get any respect, I must be the most respected person here.

 

Don't question me.