7/8/05 Brewers (Davis) @ Braves (Sosa) 6:35 CST

[Brian the Automator]

[ Why do you walk intentionally walk the guy to load the bases when you are going to play short and second in? ]

 

To have a force out a home plate... in that situation, you really can't assume a double play is going to save you, especially with the defense having some 'off nights' recently.

[scoop53714]

Well......Hell, God, Crap!

 

Just a few choice words that have allready been used here this fine evening....

 

So firing Butch wouldnt make a difference but Ned reaming the team behind closed doors will? Butch playing the role of "good" cop would wake this team up?

 

I just don't agree. I think someone needs to be the sacrificial lamb, as you call it. I never said anything to the contrary. Dont tell me to just admit something I have already publically put on record. I said it. It may or may not be Butch's fault, but the dude needs to get canned. I never said its his entire fault or that there is anything different he can do. He gets the shaft, but to bad. Lets start hitting.

[Weirdos19]

I agree with the "nights off" idea. Defense hasn't been their strong suit lately. So, why make the infield make two plays then?

 

And I do understand the force at home.

 

 

Just shaking my head too often lately.

[moofnelson]

The Brewers, to me, look exhausted. I don't know if the hot weather has worn them down or what. Carlos Lee looks like he can't hit the ball out of the infield right now. He needs a three day vacation more than a Home Run Derby and an All-Star Game.

 

moof

[Weirdos19]

Shaking my head too much lately. This is what I mean:

 

1. JJ Hardy needs the AAA seasoning. Let Hall and a Branyan/Helms platoon go for a while.

 

2. Julio Santana wasn't good enough to make our Opening Day roster. Now, he's the guy who gets pressure innings.

 

3. Tommy Phelps can't hold JDLR's jockstrap. If we are playing our youngsters, why isn't Jorge pitching at all?

 

4. All of this bullpen trouble. And where is Adams?

 

5. How long before Weeks is hitting third? Imagine the number of fastballs he would get batting in front of Carlos?

 

 

Just a few things that go through my mind.

[brettac1]

That actually makes sense. I would say overall fatigue has had more of an impact than "not caring" has. It seems that the bullpen, especially Santana and Bottalico, are overworked. This is why the decision to carry 12 pitchers seems baffling. If you are going to carry so many guys, then why not use them? Why not option Obermueller and bring up Adams to give the team another mid-innings guy? If they're not going to use DLR other than once every two weeks, then what's the sense of keeping Obermueller as the long man. That role is the least utilized one in the bullpen, yet there are two pitchers filling it. DLR is out of options, Obermueller isn't.

 

In terms of position players, I can't really think of anything they could do with them, other than wait for the break.

[Brian the Automator]

[ Well......Hell, God, Crap!

 

Just a few choice words that have allready been used here this fine evening.... ]

 

None of which are banned words, nor were they personal attacks. If you're going to call me out, next time you'll have to do better.

 

[ It may or may not be Butch's fault, but the dude needs to get canned.

 

I'm really glad that my workplace doesn't fire people because things may or may not be their fault. That would be pretty brutal.

 

[ He gets the shaft, but to bad. Lets start hitting. ]

 

Seriously. What's going to happen here? I can just imagine Lyle Overbay walking into Miller Park before the game and hearing that Butch Wynegar got fired and saying, "You know what, maybe I better start hitting consistently now". Maybe JJ Hardy will be surprised and say "Wow, they fired Butch, so they must think we ought to start hitting better".

 

Heck, maybe they can pry Jim Lefebvre away from his "blue stuff" infomercials and re-energize the lineup. Maybe Rod Carew can sit on the bench with his dull stare.

 

Firing Wynegar would really just be a move to satisfy some of the fans, in my opinion. It's just a charade to cover up the real problem. That problem either being that the players aren't living up to their potential, or that they just weren't talented in the first place.

[chowyo123]

Sorry all.. I wasn't able to watch the game and would love to read a small recap of how it went. Why did we lose? RISP again? Thanks.

(I read two pages and didn't get too far)

[Brian the Automator]

[ Why did we lose? RISP again? Thanks. ]

 

My reasons, in order of importance:

 

1) RISP

2) Donnelly's bad idea

3) Santana not being terribly effective as of late

[brettac1]

Pretty much the RISP, I guess. Really they just got beat by a better team that pitched better than them. Davis was awesome, Santana wasn't and they lost. Donnelly also made a stupid move sending Jenkins that may have cost the team a run.

[badgerfan.tgf]

Is anyone else sick of seeing the infield come in late in a tie game? It seems like every time our infield plays shallow the hitter scorches a ball that would be right at someone had we been playing at double play depth.

 

Bringing the infield in is the kiss of death. Just like sending a runner home from third on contact with less than two outs. 99 times out of 100 it doesn't work.

[brettac1]

That is easily the thing I *hate* the most. It's the worst.

[chowyo123]

thanks for the summary. Guess I missed another close yet sickening game.

[brewmann04]

mistakes again killed this team.

how many times will we see this until something is done.

also another great Pitching effort is wasted.

oh yeah we are now closing in on 8 games under again.

the magic # i see is 10 before anymove is made

[bullox]

I just don't know how

this team is not playing at

a .500 pace

 

Lack of "clutch" maybe?

Or is it just bad coaching?

One can be scapegoat.

 

A hasty firing

might be in the near future

bad decision that.

[AJ Love]

Not to be overly optimistic or anything after another disappointing game but the Crew is losing aLOT of close games... being a "glass half full" kinda person, I see that as a young team thats getting better and is about to make a step in the right direction

[scoop53714]

Quote:

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That problem either being that the players aren't living up to their potential, or that they just weren't talented in the first place

---

 

Well isn't a batting coach there to bring out the best in each hitter? I dont see anyone on this team, outside of bill hall, playing above expectations.

 

Unless Wynegar has been deemed the absolute best batting coach possible for the milwaukee brewers, he should be fired. Once again, this is a combonation of many things which all add up to a perhaps unfair but necessary firing. Butch might be doing a good job but the results are NOT there.

 

Dude, comparing your job to ANYTHING regarding MLB or any professional sport is ludacris. I cant believe you even tried that. There are no similarities between major sports jobs and the rest of the world. Unless you run this site while playing a major league sport you cant compare your job to that of a pro coach/athlete. Its apples and oranges. Pro sports coachs are tossed into the fire mid season just to sjake things up. Sacfificial lambs. Whatever. Someone has to be the fall guy. Its not going to be Ned, Mike or the base/bench coachs. Its going to be Butch and it should come before the season is a complete loss.

[Brian the Automator]

[ Pro sports coachs are tossed into the fire mid season just to sjake things up. Sacfificial lambs. Whatever. ]

 

http://images.ibsys.com/2002/0418/1406752_200X150.jpg

 

It's not always positive.

[scoop53714]

......just because royster sucked doesn't mean changes shouldnt be attempted.

[Brian the Automator]

[ ......just because royster sucked doesn't mean changes shouldnt be attempted. ]

 

I think it provides evidence to the contrary.

[moofnelson]

So I guess in '82 the Brewers shouldn't have fired Buck Rogers and replaced him with Harvey Wallbanger? That move sure did suck.http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/laugh.gif

 

moof

[scoop53714]

Royster=Small sample

 

Have we learned nothing from the collective thoughts of our little group?

[Brian the Automator]

[ Have we learned nothing from the collective thoughts of our little group? ]

 

Why, is there a large sample size of the Brewers jettisoning coaches and making some kind of big-time improvements? Other than '82 (which had a team full of VERY talented players), I can't think of such a situation.

[scoop53714]

Quote:

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Why, is there a large sample size of the Brewers jettisoning coaches and making some kind of big-time improvements? Other than '82 (which had a team full of VERY talented players), I can't think of such a situation.

---

 

Why would you limit your research to the 35 year history of the Milwaukee Brewers? Thats sort of short sighted. There are 30+ teams in a 100+ year old league. Batting coaches get canned when the team needs a wake up call. I am not saying its always fair. I am not saying it always helps. I AM saying that this team needs a fire lit under their ass's and perhaps the best way to do that is put someone else in Wynegars position to see if they can make any positive changes. Butch seems nice but it isn't working. Blaming the payroll does no one any good. Giving our offense a new polishing MIGHT. Its worth a shot. Butch hasn't done anything extraordinary to merit special treatment. The season is slipping away. Its not even about FIRING Butch. Its about offering the players a new perspective and letting someone else try to pound things into their skulls. Once again, I am not saying its fair or even deserved but firing the batting coach could be the spark the team needs. Saying its not going to accomplish anything so why bother is an insult to the whole concept of being a batting coach. Are they all interchangable/disposable/generic coaches? I don't believe they are and I believe a new one has at least a chance at making something good happen.

[Brian the Automator]

[ There are 30+ teams in a 100+ year old league. Batting coaches get canned when the team needs a wake up call. ]

 

I'm not saying it doesn't happen all the time. I'm asking, is it effective?.. especially when the problem isn't that the team isn't hitting as a whole, when the problem is that the team is hot & cold.

 

If it's the "do something, do ANYTHING, it's time to panic!" approach, I just don't see the payoff. Payroll isn't an excuse, it's a reason. If we took your philosophy, we'd probably have a new set of coaches and managers each year (excluding perhaps Mike Maddux as of recently).

 

I'm not going to cry foul if Wynegar gets canned. I don't think it's inhumane, and he still gets to keep getting paid through the end of his contract. However, I think there's an equal chance that the Brewers get WORSE as it is they get better.

 

What's worse than having Butch Wynegar as your hitting coach? Having the guy be your hitting coach that every other team passed up on... including those that are hitting much worse than the Brewers.