7/8/05 Brewers (Davis) @ Braves (Sosa) 6:35 CST

[Brian the Automator]

While Santana gave up the winning run, I think this one is all about anti-clutch hitting. Santana gave up two ground ball hits. That kind of crap happens.

 

Damian Miller was the prime goat tonight.

[brettac1]

Like I said in the "Attitude" thread...these guys are a bunch of "I don't give a damn" ball players. They quietly grab their stuff from the dugout and exit with their tails between their legs. WAKE UP AND PLAY LIKE YOU MEAN IT!!!!

 

Yuck. How do you know they don't care? Don't you think it would hurt their future employment opportunities if they didn't care? What exactly are they supposed to do? Throw the equipment on the field to show that they're mad? Like they should have to prove it to anyone. Who is a "I give a damn" ballplayer? This line of reasoning is just idiotic, for lack of a better term. Their performance has nothing to do with "not wanting it". It has to do with being beaten. Santana pitched poorly in the ninth, and they brought the infield in (maybe Ned is a "I don't give a damn manager?), and they lost. I don't see anything deeper than that, and if you do, you're delusional - or at least grasping for straws, because there is no possible way that you can prove your argument. None.

[Brian the Automator]

[ FU FSN... ]

 

Just a healthy reminder:

p092.ezboard.com/fbrewers...=576.topic

Also, using creative spellings to avoid the cuss filter will result in warning, then dismissal.

 

This isn't your "official warning" or some crap, but just try to avoid it in the future.

[scoop53714]

Your right. The number of hits a team gets should be the deciding factor in determining how good the batting coach is. In fact, we had more hits so I think we should protest the result of the game. We had the better offense! We should have be granted a victory! Lets start a letter writing campaign!

 

Sorry dude, but someone needs to get their cage rattled and there are not that many options. Can Ned? Not gonna happen. Can Maddux? Not going to happen. Big trade? Not bloody likely.

 

Can Butch? Why the hell not? The proof is in the pudding. Great pitching all year. Way more loses than wins. The offense can ever do a damn thing. Firing Butch, while perhaps less than fair, is something that will shake things up and hopefully make SOME improvement.

 

I like Butch as much as the next guy, but once again this team is incapable of giving the team enough runs to win games. Something has to change.

[Brian the Automator]

[ Gryboski, Boyer, Brower, Betemit, Francoeur, and Langerhans? ]

 

Sounds like the Cudahy women's bowling all-star team.

[H0FFY]

Yuck. How do you know they don't care?

 

Brett, to many an eye they LOOK like they dont care.

[brettac1]

Can Butch? Why the hell not? The proof is in the pudding. Great pitching all year. Way more loses than wins. The offense can ever do a damn thing. Firing Butch, while perhaps less than fair, is something that will shake things up and hopefully make SOME improvement.

 

If there is any improvement made after such changes, it is usually short-lived. I like Wynegar, personally and as a coach, so I have no problem with him staying on. Donnelly would be my guy to let go - he is actually responsible for the players making outs on the bases by stupidly sending them.

 

Brett, to many an eye they LOOK like they dont care.

 

But looking at this logically for a second, does it make any sense that they wouldn't care? If they didn't, it would make them look bad. I don't care how they look. It seems to me like they are trying to win, trying to get hits, etc. I'd just like to see an example of a) someone caring, and b) someone not caring. Show me a specific example. You just can't sit and play armchair psychoanalyst.

[Brian the Automator]

[ Your right. The number of hits a team gets should be the deciding factor in determining how good the batting coach is. In fact, we had more hits so I think we should protest the result of the game. We had the better offense! We should have be granted a victory! Lets start a letter writing campaign! ]

 

Scoop, just admit that the offense is underpeforming in the clutch and you want Wynegar to be the sacrificial lamb.

 

If you had a bunch of guys swinging for the fences and not making contact, or a bunch of guys taking a bunch of called third strikes, I could see the argument that Wynegar has something to do with the team's offensive woes.

 

However, Wynegar didn't wave Jenks home from 3rd. He didn't tell a .276 hitter who's hitting his career norms to strand 4 guys. If there were some _consistency_ to the Brewers' hitting woes other than they suck in the clutch, I would totally be in agreement with you.

[Jaylyn]

No doubt Brian. But how do you solve that problem?

 

By the way, does that avatar have something to do with the group Gorillaz?

[Brian the Automator]

[ Brett, to many an eye they LOOK like they dont care. ]

 

Oh Hoffy, that's only because Lyle Overbay is actually an android.

[Brian the Automator]

[ No doubt Brian. But how do you solve that problem? ]

 

In my opinion, Yost gets a closed door meeting and reams the hell out of his players. Then Wynegar plays good cop and tells the players to not try to do too much in clutch situations. I think it's into "self fulfilling prophecy" stage.

 

[ By the way, does that avatar have something to do with the group Gorillaz? ]

 

Yeah, i'm a fan. I was a big fan when one of the members was in Blur, one of my favorite bands.

[H0FFY]

This line of reasoning is just idiotic;

you're delusional

 

Since the above were not 'naughty, naughtied', can I use them in the future instead of the evil word 'teenager'.

 

(Sorry, I could not resist)

 

Stupid Brewers.

 

If we were all in a pub, there would probably a big time brawl going on.

[Brian the Automator]

[ This line of reasoning is just idiotic, for lack of a better term. ]

 

Yeah, you're probably going to want to find a better term http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif .

[Brian the Automator]

[ If we were all in a pub, there would probably a big time brawl going on. ]

 

I'd like it if we could all beat each other with nerf bats, and then buy each other beers afterwards.

[Jaylyn]

Sounds like a good idea to me, I wonder when was the last time Ned went off?

[H0FFY]

give... an example of a) someone caring, and b) someone not caring.

 

let me choose b)

 

Since I can see nothing on TV, I will only refer an incident where we had a couple of terrible calls against us; apparently the second one was a blatant boo, boo by the 2nd base umpire and it cost us; the replay was for all to see and the mistake obvious

 

Ned just sat in the dougout non-plussed by the entire situation; he did not care (or appeared to not care) that his team was unfairly dealt with

 

It would be better for others here to come up with specific examples.

[brettac1]

Yeah, you're probably going to want to find a better term http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif .

 

OK, I'll use silly instead, or maybe illogical. I use "silly" quite a bit, though, and illogical didn't come to me until the second post.

[H0FFY]

http://file///C:/nedyost.JPG

[brettac1]

It appears you were trying to post a pic of Ned. Was that meant to say that he doesn't care? Would it be good if he got thrown out more? If so, why and how?

 

I'm just trying to follow the bumpy trail of "caring", "being fiery", and "wanting to win", and seeing where it leads to actually winning games more than actual player performance and talent does. I'm intrigued.

[wisportswriter]

I'd love, just once, to hear someone say a team didn't look like they cared after a win.

Nobody looks fired up when they're losing, unless you count emotional meltdowns. And I have seen no good come from those.

It's timeless: A team loses, their fans cry, "They're not into it! They're not fired up! They don't care!"

I hate that only slightly less than the winning team saying, "We wanted it more." B.S. to it all.

[Brian the Automator]

[ I'm just trying to follow the bumpy trail of "caring", "being fiery", and "wanting to win", and seeing where it leads to actually winning games more than actual player performance and talent does. I'm intrigued. ]

 

I think there's something to it. I think about my own performance on the job. While ultimately, my talent and performance leads to my success, some days I just don't care. While each hitter is a professional, and I think for the most part they give it their best effort, there can be a team funk.

 

However, I don't think this is the case right now. I think it's a case of facing a decent Marlins team, a decent Braves team, and trying to do too much with RISP.

[H0FFY]

Hey Brett, do you think the Brewers lose MORE than they should talent-wise. Or better for me to ask: win LESS than their talent dictates they should?

 

A more obvious question would be: do the Nats win MORE than their talent dictates? Note the Nats won another 1 runner today.

[Brian the Automator]

[ I'd love, just once, to hear someone say a team didn't look like they cared after a win. ]

 

I present, EXHIBIT A:

http://images.tsn.ca/images/stories/20040930/olerud_81269.jpg

 

http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Weirdos19]

Question guys:

 

Why do you walk intentionally walk the guy to load the bases when you are going to play short and second in?

 

Another reason why I hate Ned.

 

You play those guys a DP depth!!! You need to get out of that inning. The game goes another inning if Ned plays things the right way.

[brettac1]

The Brewers are an average team, so it doesn't surprise me that they lurk right around .500. It's likely where they should be, talent-wise. Run-differential-wise, they are underperforming a little bit, but not that much. I still think that in the end, they'll probably end up within three games or so of .500 (above or below).

 

The Nationals do win more than they should, both talent-wise and run-differential wise. These are teams on the opposite end of the spectrum in Pythagenport, as was noted in a different thread a few days ago. Chances are that the Nats even out luck-wise and end up right around where the Brewers do, .500. That said, the Nationals talent gets short-shrifted a little bit. Brad Wilkerson is a tremendous player, as is Johnson. Guillen has worked out quite well. I'm not quite sure if I understand what you are getting at with the Nats, though. Are you saying that they have some intangible, unidentifiable advantage over other teams such as the Brewers? Or that they have more fire? I think that them and the Brewers are pretty close talent-wise, though, if that's what you were asking.