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7/8/05 Brewers (Davis) @ Braves (Sosa) 6:35 CST

brewerjamie15

By brewerjamie15,
in Archived Game Threads

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H0FFY College Ball

H0FFY

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Posted
Posted

And... as I predicted... we have the teenage / stathead argument as

 

OPS matters to determine the underlying quality of a team

 

EXCEPT WHEN I DO NOT AGREE WITH WHAT IT SHOWS

 

So, in this case we will look at the only stat that backs up our pre-determined, bias that Atlanta has a better team... win/loss records

 

But, tomorrow, when we want to explain why the Nats cannot win it all, we will ignore the win/loss record and focus on... whatever stat supports our pre-deterimined, bias that the Nats cant win

 

Oh, the joy of having a discussion with stathead/teenagers

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Jaylyn College Ball

Jaylyn

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Posted
Posted

Did Hardy touch the bag? I'll take it anyway

 

Hey Ned, might want to have someone warm up a little, Davis is literally sweating bullets out there, just another southern night where you sweat just eating.

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SlideBernieSlide Draft Eligible

SlideBernieSlide

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You know, I was thinking about how we should set up the rotation after the break. I say keep it as is...Davis, Sheets, Capuano, Santos and Ohka. Keep the lefties split-up.

 

Edit: Actually I reversed Ohka and Santos...currently Tomo pitches the day before the Vampire

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brettac1 ACL Brewers

brettac1

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Posted
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Why don't you go by position on the field, rather than batting order. That's a pretty irrelevant thing to use to compare.

 

SS

-----

Furcal - .241/.300/.373

Hardy - .193/.301/.276

 

Furcal is the better player here, even in an extreme down year (career line: .279/.342/.400).

 

LF

-----

Johnson - .261/.389/.437

Lee - .265/.332/.534

 

Lee's better, that's undeniable. Johnson is a nice player, though - .310/.438/.581 at Richmond, 8 HR, 34 BB/ 22 K.

 

2B

-----

Giles - .302/.383/.471

Weeks - .261/.370/.478

 

Giles is a better player, based quite a bit on his track record (.837 career OPS). Weeks will be a better player, though, and it wouldn't be surprising to me to see him have a better OPS at season's end than Giles.

 

CF

-----

Jones - .278/.352/.590

Clark - .310/.374/.422

 

Jones has been one of the best players in the game this season, Clark has been pretty solid, if unspectactular, since he has little power, the edge is pretty clearly with Jones.

 

1B

-----

Franco - .280/.342/.492

Overbay - .271/.384/.446

 

This is pretty even, but Lyle's OBP is nice. Franco's a platoon player, so this lineup isn't really indicative of the lineup they put on the field the majority of the time. LaRoche has a line of .269/.327/.471, so the Braves definitely get the edge in power at a premier power position over the Brewers. This is more or less a push.

 

3B

-----

Marte - .200/.286/.314

Hall - .269/.320/.514

 

Hall has performed better than Marte, but Marte has only 35 AB. In his minor league career, Marte has shown great control of the strike zone. This is something that neither Hart, and definitely not Hall, can boast of. Marte is one of the best 3B prospects in baseball. Chipper Jones had a line of .282/.411/.513 before he was injured.

 

C

-----

Estrada - .282/.323/.407

Miller - .276/.346/.408

 

Miller is a better player than Estrada, defensively and offensively.

 

RF

-----

Francoeur - .275/.322/.487 at Mississippi (AA), only 4 AB in MLB

Jenkins - .252/.351/.403

 

I would say Jenkins is probably better, but Francoeur is a stud prospect as well. He probably has more power than Jenkins, but Jenkins has been getting on base at a respectable level.

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H0FFY College Ball

H0FFY

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Posted
Posted

WV it has been shown (not by me, but by Vroomos or somebody like him) that

 

OPS best determines runs scored

and

runs scored determines win/loss records

 

(of course, assuming pitching is similar)

 

But this entire arguement stems from the fact that I innocently posted 'hey, our lineup is as good as Atlantas, even better'... and that drew a small wave a dissent; which is crazy, because if you look down the lineups we are evenly matched teams; it was just an observation

 

But I am continually amazed how stat heads then must jump up and down and even argue against themselves.

 

I am in the camp where there is indeed some mental side to this game. So, I am always interested in how the SAME stats can provide different outcomes. And I see the Brewers having decent talent - that stats show it, and they have poor outcomes.

 

Hence I believe the Brewers are in a mental funk.

 

But man oh man, try to say that here, and they are carving up your body for the vultures to feast on.

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H0FFY College Ball

H0FFY

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Posted
Posted

Hoffy, for someone who had a serious problem with anyone mentioning "age" before, this is a touch out of line.

 

Dear Censor Police

 

I really have no idea what you are talking about? Do you have some database stored on each poster? Would you care to enlighten me on my past 'error against the state'?

 

So, along with swearwords, an example of illogical logic used by my teenage children is deemed offensive?

 

Hmmmm, what is next?

 

Dare I talk about Julio Franco?

 

Sincerely

The Sincerely Apologetic Offender

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H0FFY College Ball

H0FFY

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Posted
Posted

that puts it at 4-3 with a push, plus pitching...i think pitching/bobby cox might push it towards the braves though

 

I agree completely. I sure hope Ned is watching and learning. We can get some good out of the situation then.

 

Already we can see Cox managing the game, from the bunts in the first to test Weeks D to the pitching changes.

 

Please, Ned, learn.

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Brian the Automator Biloxi Shuckers

Brian the Automator

Administrator
Posted
Posted

[ But man oh man, try to say that here, and they are carving up your body for the vultures to feast on. ]

 

If your opinions aren't allowed to be criticized, message boards ain't the place to hang out. You _immediately_ got defensive at brettac1's comment and dissenting opinion and immedately went on the stathead attack.

 

They track stats for a reason... and the larger the sample size, the more applicable stats become.

 

[ I really have no idea what you are talking about? Do you have some database stored on each poster? Would you care to enlighten me on my past 'error against the state'? ]

 

Back when you and I were at each other's throat, and I mentioned that you weren't acting mature for your age, you just about went ballistic on me.

 

Yes, calling statheads "teenagers" to generalize that they're not consistent is insulting.

 

Attacking the person instead of the argument doesn't do anything for the attacker's credibility. Brett went to AAA to obtain a larger sample size to compare Marte to and you immediately started beating the stathead drum.

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lithium75 College Ball

lithium75

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Posted
Posted
Geoff Jenkins in a nutshell, is having a good game, but is still killing us with getting caught at the plate, and grounding into a key double play. (OK, the thing at the plate may not be his fault, but it ruins the credibility of this post to mention it...)
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