Dominican Republic camp closed - Scout released

[foamboy1]

I read today that Milwaukee closed its Dominican Republic camp, and released Espy Guererro. Guererro was the person who identified Luis Martinez and Valerio DLS.

 

Any thoughts on how this might affect the organization? I don't think for one minute that this was anything but a cost cutting move, despite what they say. Rather than spend money on the Royce Clayton's and Eric Young's, etc., I'd much rather have them invest additional dollars in scouting and development. This seems to take them the wrong direction.

[batman]

Any thoughts on how this might affect the organization?

 

My personal opinion is that Guererro is a moron and we're better off without him. He identified and signed a total of *two* major leaguers, one of which just made it to the bigs last week, in a decade of work for Milwaukee. The Brewers' have been notorious for having one of the worst Latin American programs in MLB. If EG wasn't part of the problem, at best he also wasn't part of the solution.

 

I'm not sure what the benefit of saving $400,000 per year is. I mean, that's a lot of money... but it's not *that* much compared to all of the other operating costs that the Brewers have. If it really is just cost cutting, you'd think they could have selected something more expensive to cut.

 

I don't know how many other teams have gone this route, wherein they sign a small number of players and bring them to the states, rather than the "traditional" DSL approach where you field a large team and develop them there. I honestly don't know what approach is better... but I trust that Melvin knows what he's doing, so I'd have to side with those that support the move, I guess.

 

~Bill

[colbyjack]

Jim Powell talked about this during today's broadcast. He basically said that the $400,000 wouldn't simply be eliminated, as that money would be used to sign better players, not a bunch of lower quality players to field a larger team. And now, those players will get to play in the U.S. right away with the Brewers' Arizona affiliate, at the state-of-the-art Maryvale complex, which could be used as an edge over other teams when it comes down to a bidding war.

 

Better quality, smaller quantity, at a better location.

 

And $400,000 can go a long way with some of these players. I'm actually surprised that's how much it costed to run the DSL operation. They're still going to need a scout to find the talent in that part of the world, unless they're simply going to re-arrange & expand their existing scouts areas of responsibility. Or maybe Gord Ash will take up residence in the DR http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif .

 

They're certainly being pro-active with the way they view player development. Yet another interesting move.

[SoCalBrewfan]

Epy Guerrero was a legend...I would hardly call him a moron, given his history. He signed a lot of the guys from the DR that put Toronto on the map...IIRC, including Tony Fernandez, Alfredo Griffin, Damaso Garcia...but I wonder how much of this move is because Epy was so much a legend that he didn't adapt to changing times. There was an article about scouting in the DR, in which Epy talked about not playing the same games other teams did, not going to organized tryouts, etc.

 

My gut feeling is that he was just too stubborn to change his methods...that he was scouting as though it were still 1981...and that Melvin and Ash decided they didn't want to deal with him any more, especially given the track record in later years.

[igor67]

Again some may quibble with the move but like with canceling fall instructionals and basically changing them to early spring mini camp Doug laid out his reasons and they aren't thread-bare justification for penny pinching. Epy's record with the Brewers is unimpressive, and the Brewers clearly would have been better off not having wasted money on the program fro 10 years and used that money to sign 2 maybe even 3 of the higher profile Latin players of the last few years in a bidding war. So I'll look at this as a possible step ahead and at worst a side step.

[foamboy1]

I honestly don't know what approach is better... but I trust that Melvin knows what he's doing, so I'd have to side with those that support the move, I gu[/b]

 

What is generally clear is that our approach has not produced even mediocre results. Melvin's solution indicates that he believes the best approach is to close up operations in the country in which you are scouting. Is this consistent with other organizations who excel in developing Dominican talent?

[igor67]

Did you read the article foamboy? He said they are closing their academy and are going to focus on signing a few good talents every year and have them come to Arizona instead of signing any 16 year old kid who can swing a bat and letting them play in the DR for 2-3 years before letting them washout in Arizona. There not leaving the DR they are changing tactics. It appears that Epy's plan was to drive around and look for the great unfound prospect. While other teams are going in and identifying the best prospects and not infrequently finding that the really good kids are "discovered" by more than one team and get bid up. Epy's style worked just fine when noone else was there but now everyone's there, so the great unfound prospect pretty much sucks. And frankly at the rate we'd been producing prospects we'd have been better off having scrapped the program years ago and 1) reduced debt and 2) used that extra money to afford a few more draftees even Jarrod Page. That extra 400K could easily have netted us 1-2 more good prospects from the draft each of the last few years.

[WanaBGM]

I expected it. He was great, 20 years ago. Probably why we got him in the late 90's. But little was coming out of there. Since we have an entire minor league system, quantity is not the problem.

 

We obviously have one of the worst records in Latino ballplayers. This has been a problem since the late 1980's and needs to be rectified as part of our over development.

[batman]

SoCal:

 

Epy Guerrero was a legend...I would hardly call him a moron, given his history. He signed a lot of the guys from the DR that put Toronto on the map

 

I've heard so many negative comments about Epy that I find it hard to believe that talent or hard work had much to do with his success. It seems more likely that Toronto was a front-runner in establishing a Dominican program and the organization would have been successful regardless of who was running it. I'm sure Epy had good contacts in the country and his name got him a lot of perks, but the fact that his track record is utterly atrocious for the last decade makes me think he isn't highly motivated.

 

Ash and Melvin have excellent reputations for their ability to run latin programs. I'm much happier with those two taking over than with letting Epy continue business as usual.

 

And yes, "moron" is too harsh a term. I don't know him personally, and it's quite likely that personal problems have interfered with his ability to scout effectively. At some point, however, you just have to admit that he's terrible at what he does, at least at this point in his career. As such, it seems that Melvin made the right decision.

 

~Bill

[thebruce44]

If anybody knows how to run a successful Latin program, it would be a GM from Texas. I'm going to trust Melvin on this one. Hopefully the results will be better.

[foamboy1]

Did you read the article foamboy? He said they are closing their academy and are going to focus on signing a few good talents every year and have them come to Arizona instead of signing any 16 year old kid who can swing a bat and letting them play in the DR for 2-3 years before letting them washout in Arizona.

 

I did indeed read the article. I'm surprised you believe that if something is spun and written by the Brewers, that it must be true. I'm simply trying to distinguish whether or not closing this facility will hurt the future of the franchise. I'm sure you also believed when they told you they needed a new stadium so they could spend the money to be competitive with other franchises. I'm sure you bought into Matt Stairs being the answer....or Royce Clayton.....or EY......or Dave Mlicki.....or Todd Ritchie.....or Stubbs, or Sean Berry, etc. Just because they tell us something doesn't mean it's true.....there is a bit of a credibility gap with this ownership team and if you haven't noticed, they are cutting costs everywhere to save money so the ownership team can continue out another couple of years without having to give up the equity that cedes control to another.

 

I don't necessarily buy that they'll use this money to sign "higher quality" prospects. If that were the case, they'd be much better off not paying Clayton, EY and the rest of the stopgap has-been's and invest that money in additional scouting and development. (this is what I advocate).

 

I don't mind the major league payroll going down as long as it's being invested in something that actually generates a return down the road.

[rotoherb]

"I'm surprised you believe that if something is spun and written by the Brewers, that it must be true "

 

You are the polar opposite. You think that everything coming out of the Brewers front office must not be true, has to be some sort PR ploy, and of course is always the wrong decision. Some of it is BS and some of it is legit, which is really no different than any other big company in the US.

 

The Brewers have gotten two players from the Dominican since Epy was there. I'm not sure how someone can argue against making a change so I'm not even sure what you are upset about. Is it because you think they should have made a different change or is it because there are actually people in world who agree with a move the Brewers make once in a while? Just curious, what would you have done as GM in this situation.

[foamboy1]

I'm not upset about this at all. Only history will prove whether or not this current strategy is the correct one. There are two things occurring here. First, they are unhappy with Eppy's performance, and are replacing him. Second, they have decided at the same time to take a different strategy and not develop the talent on a local basis. These are two decisions occuring at the same time.

 

There is little doubt that they haven't been as effective as they need to be. I don't think anyone argues that. A clear way to resolve this is to simply replace Eppy and move forward holding the new person accountable for results.

 

When Brewer management does things that clearly eliminate costs with the promise that they'll "spend the money elsewhere," I become suspicious since they have demonstrated that they don't spend the money elsewhere. There is lots of momentum going right now and I am hoping they don't "stunt it" by trying to save some bucks.

 

There have been many articles in the last six months about the franchise attempting to raise money. Perhaps you don't understand how dire the situation is for this ownership team. They really need cash or they will be forced to put the team on the block. I think this would be a good situation for the fans, as I would like to see someone like Dick Strong be the owner.....someone who is a major sports fan, holds people accountable for results and has no problem spending lots of money to do things right.

 

That being said, I don't mean to be harsh on management. This ownership team, however, has lost the benefit of the doubt over the years and when something like this happens it raises my interest.

 

I support firing Eppy if they believe that is right. His is accountable for the poor result. I also support moving the talent development to AZ, if they think that will improve the situation. I would like to make sure they don't just cut the costs and not spend on this important development. What I really advocate is less money spent on major league stopgap players, and more money on scouting, drafting and development.

 

I apologize if I offend your sensibilities.

[colbyjack]

I don't think foamboy was being negative, he has good reason to be skeptical, as he pointed out.

 

However, I'm still encouraged by this move because the organization has not been cheap when it comes to player development for the past 2-3 years, and as noted time & time again, both Doug Melvin & Gord Ash have a strong background scouting Latin America.

 

I would like to see/hear more about their foreign signees when they happen, especially if they plan on going after a few more marquee players with the money that has been re-assigned.

[Jopal78]

C'mon Foamboy if the Brewers were solely interested in cutting costs they would have given that dumb announcer girl the 86 back in April, but instead they still trot her sorry ass out there to annoy the ******* who still pay to see the games (yeah I include myself in this group).

On topic, closing the Academy probably doesn't make much difference in the long run because the Brewers were not exactly getting anything from there in general. While bringing players straight to the US from the D.R. seems pretty innovative, even with the 400K in hand the Brewers still won't get the top talent because better teams will beat them out not only financially but aesthetically as well.

[Strange Brew eh]

What do I wish they would do with the $400K saved. Thanks for asking!!!

 

I would use this to set up a scouting academy in Australia or Taiwan. Here is my reasoning.

 

Back in the early days of Dominican and Latin America scouting it was normally whomever found you first, signed you(and cheap at that). Nowadays, there are tons of scouts in the area and now many of the good players are going in a bidding war (a smaller version of Free Agency). The original teams in the area (see Toronto) had an advantage, now they don't.

 

Put an academy in Indonesia, Taiwan wherever and be the first team to mine for talent there. Additionally, give away all the TV rights to the largest station you can. If you do this you will develop a following in that region, which will give you an advantage when trying to sign players. The dodgers, due to their name, should have an easier time convincing a mother for their son to goto an academy in Latin America vs a Milwaukee. Being a small market requires allocating your resources where you can best get the bang for the buck. I'd love to have an academy in Japan but it's more expensive than here. However, SE Asia is cheap and they play baseball there. Just like the dominican republic 20 years ago.

[Crusher123]

Yet another cost cutting move the Brewers are oh-so famous for. This is really getting pathetic - cut out instructional league etc. This franchise will take any step to cut costs. Bud and Wendy are pathetic.

[clancyphile]

Strange Brew eh

 

It's an excellent idea, IMHO. The way for a small market club to compete is to think a little outside the box.

[Never Outhustled]

The usual signing bonus the Crew gave out to Dominicans was $8,000. Top tier Dominican prospects get $1,000,000 from other teams. I wonder why the Crew couldn't find more talent there?