Official AFL Thread - Latest: Photos (Hart/Escobar)

[Mass Haas]

There is no doubt, and we sensed this right from the start when AFL rosters were first announced, that the Brewers could not have botched things more than they did this year in this process.

 

It's not the end of the world, but the whole Brewer AFL experience this year has been comical in a sad way, even before the latest developments.

 

Thankfully, Doug, Gord, Reid, and Jack have done much better in so many other more important aspects of farm development.

[DHonks]

quite the game of ping-pong in my clubhouse today. It was a prospect slug-fest in doubles ping-pong, Arizona closer prospect (former first round pick) Casey Daigle and Dodgers slugging 3b Andy LaRoche vs Dbacks 2004 first rounder Stephen Drew and A's super-prospect Daric Barton. I'm not really sure who won, but it was hilarious watching them go at it for about 30 minutes.

[Mass Haas]

From Michael Echan/MLB.com:

 

The Javelinas came within two outs of the Arizona Fall League's first no-hitter in 2005 on Wednesday, but lost it in a pinch.

 

Dodgers prospect James Loney broke it up with a pinch-hit one-out homer in the ninth, but Peoria was able to hold on to beat the Phoenix Desert Dogs, 3-1 at the Peoria Sports Complex on Wednesday night.

 

Orioles farmhand Adam Loewen (1-0) pitched five strong innings, striking out six, walking two and got Jarrod Saltalamacchia to bounce into an inning-ending double play in the first. The southpaw also finished his night strong as he retired the last 12 batters he faced.

 

Relievers Ramon Ramirez (Rockies), Andy Mitchell (Orioles) and Rusty Tucker (Padres) each helped keep Phoenix hitless through the next three innings before giving way to Brian Wolfe (Brewers) in the ninth. After Tony Abreu (Dodgers) made the first out of the inning, Loney stepped in for leadoff man Josh Burrus (Braves) and hit the first pitch he saw from Wolfe over the right field fence, ending both the no-hitter and shutout.

 

The Javelinas grabbed the lead back in the third inning when Adam Jones (Mariners) drew a two-out walk and advanced on a balk from Desert Dogs starter Jamie Shields (Devil Rays). Corey Hart (Brewers) brought Jones home in the next at-bat with a line drive single to left. Peoria tacked on two more insurances runs in the sixth on an RBI ground out from Dan Uggla (Diamondbacks) and an RBI single by Nick Markakis (Orioles).

 

Shields (1-1) pitched effectively, despite getting tagged with the loss, tossing five innings of one-run ball, allowing four hits and a walk while striking out three. Saltalamacchia earned the other Phoenix hit with a two-out bloop single in the ninth.

 

SS Alcides Escobar was 0-for-2 with a sacrifice and a strikeout. Hart finished 1-for-4, played third base, and had only one chance, handling a ground ball on the firt play of the game.

 

The Javelinas travel to Mesa for a 10:05 p.m. ET game against the Solar Sox on Thursday.

[deeswan]

There is no doubt, and we sensed this right from the start when AFL rosters were first announced, that the Brewers could not have botched things more than they did this year in this process.

 

I'm curious about this statement. I'll give you the Hardy/Escobar swap as a botch, although, at the time the decision was made to send JJ to the AFL, I thought it was sound. Other than that, I'm not sure how things were botched. Stetter got hurt, Fielder's wife has health issues. Could those issues have been seen in advance? As far as Hammond, I'm sure the team wanted to do this as he, by their accounts, didn't pitch much in his college season and had innings to burn. Couple that with the thought that he is on a fast-track to the bigs and it makes sense to try and get him there. I would guess they knew it was a possibility that it would be denied.

[Brian the Automator]

[ As far as Hammond, I'm sure the team wanted to do this as he, by their accounts, didn't pitch much in his college season and had innings to burn. ]

 

In that case, the club should have known the rules about how many players from A-ball you could said.

[huntsvillefan]

From my point of view one of the biggest botch ups, was showing an inability to manage young players effectively. While I thought the choices were peculiar, I can just about accept that the Brewers knew better than I who needed to go there.

What I find difficult to accept is that they couldn't sort this out professionally and privately with a group of young players, rather than attract the ammount of public dissent that they did.

Eveland, Hardy & Prince all publicly griping was a sorry spectacle which honestly didn't say anything positive about their relationship with the club.

[OppoJack]

So you're blaming the Brewers for Eveland, Hardy, and Fielder complaining publicly?

 

Also, Brian the Automator, what other options do the Brewers have to replace Stetter? Hammond is the most advanced pitcher they have at Instructional. You want them to crank Ty Taubenheim back up and send him down there?

 

Doesn't matter anyways, Hammond is going to the AFL after all. Wait and see.

[Brian the Automator]

[ Also, Brian the Automator, what other options do the Brewers have to replace Stetter? Hammond is the most advanced pitcher they have at Instructional. You want them to crank Ty Taubenheim back up and send him down there? ]

 

The point I was making that you can only have one guy who wasn't at least in AA on 8/1 in the AFL. I wasn't at all saying Hammond wouldn't have been a good choice, but he's not a legitimate choice by the rules the AFL has set out.

 

Now, if they are willing to make excpetions to the rules, i'm not privy to that information... but with the info I have available, that's why I said it. And, since it was reported that he was bounced for that reason, I would say it was at the time an accurate assessment.

 

If the Brewers yank Escobar out and insert Hammond, that might be legal as well... but they didn't at the time.

[huntsvillefan]

So you're blaming the Brewers for Eveland, Hardy, and Fielder complaining publicly?

 

Yes - if it had only been one of them, you could assume that the guy was a loose cannon. When 3 guys make it this obvious publicly that they're unhappy over a decision, you've got a management communication problem.

I'm not saying the players aren't to blame too, but good management would have found a way to handle this privately.

[DHonks]

brian, the league has made exceptions before. For instance, there's the Taxi squad, yet by the last week, the taxi squad will only exist on paper, as the pitchers/hitters will play more. The Brewers obviously felt that they were sending two exceptional A-ball players. Escobar is holding his own, while Hammond--a college draftee coming off a great year in which he reached A+--likely would have done fine

[Mass Haas]

There is no doubt, and we sensed this right from the start when AFL rosters were first announced, that the Brewers could not have botched things more than they did this year in this process.

 

I'm curious about this statement. I'll give you the Hardy/Escobar swap as a botch, although, at the time the decision was made to send JJ to the AFL, I thought it was sound. Other than that, I'm not sure how things were botched. Stetter got hurt, Fielder's wife has health issues. Could those issues have been seen in advance? As far as Hammond, I'm sure the team wanted to do this as he, by their accounts, didn't pitch much in his college season and had innings to burn. Couple that with the thought that he is on a fast-track to the bigs and it makes sense to try and get him there. I would guess they knew it was a possibility that it would be denied.

 

I don't have the link, but I do remember reading that besides Eveland, Hardy, Hart, and Fielder, there were only something like three players in all of major league baseball who were to report directly from a major league clubhouse to the AFL. So the Brewers basically out-numbered all of the other organizations combined in this regard. Don't quote me on that, but it's close.

 

The Brewers basically chose to take a decidely different tact this year in regards to the AFL. And yes, when you've grown accustomed to Miller Park post-game spreads for a month or two (or even a full season), there will be some "moaning" from players about AFL duty, no matter how discreet that complaining may be.

 

So yes, I think the Brewers got a little too creative for their own good.

 

My own AFL lineup might have looked like this:

 

Corey Hart (for the position work)

Vinnie Rottino

Adam Heether (a no-brainer)

Brad Nelson or Tony Gwynn (yes, return trips for either)

RHP Brian Wolfe (wow, by default)

LHP Josh Habel?

 

I say by default for Wolfe, only because the options seem so limited, unless you want to ask already "stretched" guys like Taubenheim or Villanueva.

 

Here's what you do. Go to our Player Index (link at top of any page). Use the filter option to look at the Nashville and Huntsville current rosters. It's slim pickings folks, particularly for available pitchers. Oppojack has a point when he says "who" beyond Stetter.

 

The Brewers still didn't play their AFL cards very well, regardless of unusual circumstances.

[Mass Haas]

The Javelinas (6-6) visit Mesa (5-7) Thursday night, 9:05 PM Central, no audio.

 

The updating box score / game log is here:

 

www.minorleaguebaseball.c...n_msswin_1

 

Go to the AFL site home page to make use of the Advanced Gameday Feature:

 

www.minorleaguebaseball.c...p?sid=l119

[And That]

Habel would have been a legit choice instead of Hammond. Habel won't make it as a starter, so he needs to get good bullpen work as often as possible.

[dadofandrew]

In my opinion, Mass, you're list includes kids who are unlikely to ever be more than a role player in the bigs. I want to see Prince work on his defense and Dana not suck far more than I want to see a Josh Habel "type" throw a few innings.

 

The AFL is designed to be a league for the best to go there and work on their game, an instructional league for fine prospects, if you will. The idea an out-of-shape kid like Eveland doesn't think he needs any work is probably why he compiled a 6 ERA while never facing any hitter twice. Goodness, he threw 10 more innings than he did in '04, whew, wipe that sweat from your eyes, son.

[Brian the Automator]

The answer to a kid hitting the wall if he did so because of conditioning certainly isn't _more pitching_.

 

If Dana got tired because of conditioning, that's what he needs to work on in the offseason, not throwing more baseballs.

[GoodGod262]

I don't know if Eveland hitting a wall was because he was out of shape. There are plenty of great fat pitchers and bad fat pitchers. I think the jump in the ammount of innings probably hurt him more than his rotund mid-section.

[DHonks]

Al, the Fall league has several purposes. For some it is a finishing school. For some it allows them to have a chance at success after a lost season due to injury. It can also be a last chance in a career. A chance to earn a 40 roster spot. etc etc. There's lots of different reasons for the league. Perhaps the best one is that it is American Winterball, for US minor leagues who might not want to go overseas or might ride the bench if they did.

 

I'll look in the media guide tomorrow, but I think there's something like 10-20 guys who have played in the big leagues. Off the top of my head I can think of Breslow, Eveland, Hart, Fielder, Daigle, Josh Wilson, the other Florida SS, etc.

[Mass Haas]

The Javelinas scored six times in the top of the 10th Thursday night to win, 8-2.

 

Give it up for SS Alcides Escobar, on base three times, plus a sacrifice bunt. He handled all three of his fielding chances cleanly.

 

-- grounds out to second base, leading off the 3rd

 

-- hit by pitch in the 5th, man on first, one out

 

-- sacrifice bunt in the 7th, man on 2nd, none out

 

-- singles on a ground ball to third base in the 9th, man on 1st, two out

 

-- triples on a line drive to right field in the 10th with two out, driving in two, later scored

 

Escobar is now hitting .286 (8-for-26); his triple was his first extra-base hit; zero walks, six K's; teeny-tiny sample, but keeping his head well above water for an 18-year-old...

[deeswan]

The point I was making that you can only have one guy who wasn't at least in AA on 8/1 in the AFL. I wasn't at all saying Hammond wouldn't have been a good choice, but he's not a legitimate choice by the rules the AFL has set out.

 

My turn to beat a dead horse. Didn't the story indicate that the league had rejected the Brewers request for a waiver? Or am I just imagining things? (Very possible) My thought is that the Brewers figured that, in an injury situation, the waiver is a formality. Clearly that didn't turn out to be the case, but I still think that, from the Brewers standpoint, Hammond was the best choice to go.

[DHonks]

Escobar is now hitting .286 (8-for-26); his triple was his first extra-base hit; zero walks, six K's; teeny-tiny sample, but keeping his head well above water for an 18-year-old...

 

Yes, that's somewhat true. This league has mostly AA pitchers, so it's a good sign. Although remember that the league average is around .300-.310. So t.286 is like carrying a .240 average in most leagues. Still, it's something to watch.

[colbyjack]

From today's BA Daily Dish:

 

There has been no official reason as to why the Brewers removed first baseman Prince Fielder from the AFL, replacing him with Vinny Rottino. But the consensus among several scouts was that Fielder, who played 39 games in the big leagues as well as the majority of the season at Triple-A Nashville, was worn out. ?He really looked lackadaisical, like he didn?t care,? an AL scout said. ?I saw him swing at three pitches during an at-bat?all breaking balls?and not even come close. He just looked worn down. It wouldn?t surprise me, considering how much he?s played. You can only motivate guys so much and to me, it looked like Mr. Fielder had no interest in being here.?

[molitor fan]

Yee.

[DHonks]

I'll try to find out more from their trainers when I see them.

 

It was funny to see our guys hang around after BP to watch Prince. I've never seen guys stick around to watch the other team hit

[DHonks]

I'll look in the media guide tomorrow, but I think there's something like 10-20 guys who have played in the big leagues. Off the top of my head I can think of Breslow, Eveland, Hart, Fielder, Daigle, Josh Wilson, the other Florida SS, etc.

 

Mass, I can't find it in the media guide. What I can find says that "the AFL team with most players with Major League experience: Mesa Solar Sox with 12." Team with least is Phoenix Desert Dogs with 4. That is as of Sept 23rd

[Mass Haas]

Mass, I can't find it in the media guide. What I can find says that "the AFL team with most players with Major League experience: Mesa Solar Sox with 12."

 

Maybe it was that the Brewers had more than the other teams affiliated with the Javelinas combined. That would make more sense....