Official AFL Thread - Latest: Photos (Hart/Escobar)

[maisel4me]

I was at the first 5.5 innings of today's game, not much to report, just a few notes:

 

Hammond sat in the 87-88 mph range, and hit 92 once on the gun I was watching. He has a breaking ball with screwball motion, and had lefties guessing with what looked like a slider/curve that broke down and away from them (threw it around 80-82).

 

Escobar ripped the double, one-hopped the wall. His second hit was a bunt single. Showed some good range on a ball hit up the middle, but didn't complete the play.

 

Drew's homer was massive.

[And That]

Hammond sat in the 87-88 mph range, and hit 92 once on the gun I was watching.

 

Yah, that's why I'm not a huge fan. If he's throwing that in the minors, it'll be even a little slower in the bigs. That's a huge stretch as a starting pitcher in Milwaukee without a great breaking ball.

[DHonks]

our player in the stands reported his fastball clocked in at 86-91, with an average of around 88.

[colbyjack]

If he's throwing that in the minors, it'll be even a little slower in the bigs. That's a huge stretch as a starting pitcher in Milwaukee without a great breaking ball.

 

Both Capuano and Davis pitch in this range without big breaking balls with very good success. I'm not trying to compare them, just sayin'.

 

And by maisel4me's accounts, Hammond did have a good breaking ball, at least against lefties. I'm really not counting on Hammond being a starter at the big-league level, but we should remember that if we can develop our own role players we should thank the player development dep't. just as much as we do for the everyday players. I realize that doesn't give Hammond the greatest of ceilings as a prospect if that is the role he maxes out at, but I still like his chances pitching in the big-leagues, which stands for quite a bit IMO.

 

Thanks for the live reports maisel4me & DHonks.

[DHonks]

I should also mention that I spoke with Vinny Rottino for a few minutes before the game, and he's a very nice guy. He said he wasn't sure why they stopped catching him in AA, because he said he felt like he made some progress. We heard (in the media) that Melvin and co. wanted to see if he could catch early in the year, then rotate him around. However, Rottino seemed to think his role just kind of evolved as the year went on. Zuniga gets promoted, and he plays 3b. that's how it went

[homer]

Quote:

---

thought I'd add this. So when people envision Brandon Wood, what do they expect? I figured he'd be a well built guy...kind of like a Branyan. Well, I saw him and I couldn't believe it. He makes Krynzel and Hardy look like powerlifters, and the closest resemblence in terms of build is likely Craig Counsell. Of course, he swings as hard as it humanly possible, hence why he either hits homers or strikes outs.

---

 

I've posted this before, DHonks....

 

Wood couldn't hit the ball out of hte infield when he was a soph in high school, but he started on a 'Core' workout program with Mark Verstegen (also trains Nomar) and his power went up a hundred fold.

[filthyfrog]

If he's throwing that in the minors, it'll be even a little slower in the bigs.

 

Toby, can you explain this comment? You say it as if it's a well known truism, but I've never heard before that pitchers slow down once they reach the majors. Some, like Sheets, even add velocity as they develop.

 

If Hammond really does drop into the mid-80s, then I agree that he's not that great of a prospect. But if he stays where he is now, he'll get a chance in the bigs.

[DHonks]

homer, I just think Wood could be another Jose Hernandez-type player. In the bigs, maybe .240 with 25-40 hr depending on the year

[Mass Haas]

LHP Steve Hammond's day on Wednesday:

 

Phoenix Bottom 1st

-- Jason Pridie strikes out swinging.

-- Stephen Drew called out on strikes.

-- James Loney grounds out, shortstop Alcides Escobar to first baseman Michael Johnson.

 

Phoenix Bottom 2nd

-- Andre Ethier grounds out, second baseman Dan Uggla to first baseman Michael Johnson.

-- Kurt Suzuki walks.

-- Daric Barton singles on a ground ball to third baseman Tripper Johnson III. Kurt Suzuki to 2nd.

-- Jonathan Schuerholz singles on a ground ball to shortstop Alcides Escobar. Kurt Suzuki to 3rd. Daric Barton to 2nd.

-- Alex Frazier walks. Kurt Suzuki scores. Daric Barton to 3rd. Jonathan Schuerholz to 2nd.

-- Elliot Johnson grounds into double play, second baseman Dan Uggla to shortstop Alcides Escobar to first baseman Michael Johnson. Alex Frazier out at 2nd.

 

Phoenix Bottom 3rd

-- Jason Pridie flies out to center fielder Jeff Salazar.

-- Stephen Drew homers (6) on a fly ball to right field.

-- James Loney strikes out swinging.

-- Andre Ethier grounds out, second baseman Dan Uggla to first baseman Michael Johnson.

 

Phoenix Bottom 4th

-- Kurt Suzuki singles on a ground ball to third baseman Tripper Johnson III.

-- Daric Barton singles on a line drive to center fielder Jeff Salazar. Kurt Suzuki to 2nd.

-- Jonathan Schuerholz grounds into double play, second baseman Dan Uggla to shortstop Alcides Escobar to first baseman Michael Johnson. Kurt Suzuki to 3rd. Daric Barton out at 2nd.

-- Alex Frazier walks.

-- Elliot Johnson lines out to center fielder Jeff Salazar.

 

Phoenix Bottom 5th

-- Jason Pridie called out on strikes.

-- Stephen Drew grounds out, first baseman Vinny Rottino to pitcher Steven Hammond.

-- James Loney flies out to center fielder Jeff Salazar.

 

You can review the exploits of Escobar, Hart, and Rottino at the plate here:

 

www.minorleaguebaseball.c...n_pddwin_1

[Mass Haas]

The Javelinas (17-13) host Surprise (16-15) Thursday afternoon, 2:05 PM Central, no audio. This wraps up Peoria's season. The Javelinas will not be in the championship game, having lost the division to Phoenix.

 

Corey Hart is starting at first base, Vinny Rottino third base, and Alcides Escobar shortstop.

 

The updating box score / game log is here:

 

www.minorleaguebaseball.c...n_perwin_1

 

Go to the AFL site home page to make use of the Advanced Gameday Feature:

 

www.minorleaguebaseball.c...p?sid=l119

[Mass Haas]

You can watch all of Steve Hammond's performance via this video link:

 

mfile.akamai.com/10869/wm...ho_350.wmv

[And That]

Toby, can you explain this comment? You say it as if it's a well known truism, but I've never heard before that pitchers slow down once they reach the majors. Some, like Sheets, even add velocity as they develop.

 

It's something I've noticed. I always hear about Player A throwing in the low-to-mid 90's in the minors, and when they get to the bigs, for whatever the reason, Player A is hitting 90 sometimes but work in the high 80's.Player B might throw in the upper 80's in the minors, but then he's touching 87-88 in the bigs and working in the low 80's. I find that it is much more often the case the velocity decreases moving up the change as opposed to staying the same or increasing. This may be due in part to learning how to pitch instead of just throw, needing to lose velocity to incease control, etc.

 

I see Hammond throws in the high 80's, touching 91, which makes me think that it is likely he will barely ever touch 90 if and when he makes it to Milwaukee, and probably work in the low-to-mid 80's. It isn't so much a truism, just what I've witnessed from developing pitchers. When Sarfate gets called up next year, I'll bet you that he won't be throwing any harder than 90-92 with regularity, even though he is capable of pitching a few ticks higher.

 

Both Capuano and Davis pitch in this range without big breaking balls with very good success. I'm not trying to compare them, just sayin'.

 

I should have said offspeed pitch, not breaking ball. Both Davis and Capuano have a plus to plus-plus non-fastball. I don't know that Hammond has a pitch like Davis' cutter or Cappy's changeup. He needs to improve his arsenal to make it as a starter, probably. I'm not saying that him making it as a reliever is a bad thing, we can always use more of those, I'm just trying to temper expectations.

[colbyjack]

I should have said offspeed pitch, not breaking ball. Both Davis and Capuano have a plus to plus-plus non-fastball. I don't know that Hammond has a pitch like Davis' cutter or Cappy's changeup. He needs to improve his arsenal to make it as a starter, probably. I'm not saying that him making it as a reliever is a bad thing, we can always use more of those, I'm just trying to temper expectations.

 

Fair enough, but do you feel that expectations are particularly high for Hammond? I guess as soon as we drafted him and he was fast-tracked a little I got the sense that the Brewers may be handling him similar to how they handled Mitch Stetter. I know the Baseball America report that he could touch 94 turned a few heads, but as I noted on the draft report card thread, I never really bought that he ever threw that hard.

 

Which brings me to your comment about lost velocity. I agree that it does seem as though pitchers throw a little softer once they're in the big leagues. I've always wondered if that has to do with the reports we hear. For instance, we always heard that Ben Hendrickson threw in the low-90s with the ability to touch the mid-90s on occasion, but when he was called up, he seemed to pitch in the 88 mph range. Did anyone ever actually witness him throwing as hard as 91-94 on a reliable radar gun? Was it based on stadium gun radar readings (JUGs guns, often at field level which is too low to make an accurate reading) or by scouts (often Stalkers, more reliable readings)?

 

I saw the same thing at the Aflac game this last summer. My brother was holding Perfect Game's stalker the entire game and only one pitcher touched 95 mph (Kyle Drabek) and he only did that 3-4 times. A few other pitchers touched 94, but very few surpassed the 90-92 range, if that, despite reports that many of them threw much harder (one guy was clocked as high as 96 on the stadium gun but we never got him higher than 94). It always seems as though anytime I see a pitcher throw in person they don't throw as hard as they once did. When I was in Beloit I sat behind a scout who clocked Mike Jones in the 87-93 range, and he only hit 93 once (and that was a game Michael & I saw in which he dominated with his fastball, striking out 10-11 batters in 5 or 6 innings of work IIRC).

 

So I guess I'm curious if this drop in velocity is actually a drop based on reality vs. perception, and makes me a little bit more excited about Sarfate whom I saw top out at 98 on a stalker in Beloit a couple of years ago (Manny Parra was consistently 88-91 at the time). To be honest, I've never taken BA's reports on velocity too seriously, since we have seen plenty of disparities before.

 

Also, I can access the video on the link that Mass provided, but it's very unstable (the video will player for a few seconds, then stop, will pick up a few seconds later, stop, etc., yet the audio continues throughout...so it's not a Mac thing http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif ).

[huntsvillefan]

Zuniga gets promoted, and he plays 3b. that's how it went

 

I think if you care to check DHonks, you'll find that they more or less gave up on Vinnie catching on any regular basis, long begore Tony went to AAA. I'm not saying that he didn't improve, but if he did it was in ways not apparent to the casual observer.

There was a radio interview in which Nicholls said that 'the Brewers knew he could play catcher' and I was a bit surprized when they just stopped playing him there except very rarely. He did look absolutely brutal behind the plate, but he was pretty much bound to be bad until he got a lot of experience.

My only strong feeling on it was that it really wasn't fair to the pitchers development to have someone that inept behind the plate, but there really isn't any other way for him to learn and pitchers with even less experience than AA have to cope with learning catchers, so I assume its thought not to impact them too badly.

[DHonks]

For instance, we always heard that Ben Hendrickson threw in the low-90s with the ability to touch the mid-90s on occasion, but when he was called up, he seemed to pitch in the 88 mph range. Did anyone ever actually witness him throwing as hard as 91-94 on a reliable radar gun?

 

My initial reports on Hendrickson were in the '03 Fall League. I noted that his velocity wasn't eye-popping, but I couldn't figure out why the Fall League's top hitters couldn't touch him. Specifically, he threw a lot of fastballs over the plate, thigh high. Were they on the black of the plate? Did they move a lot? I don't know, but the top hitters in the minors repeatedly hit weak rollers, bleeders, and broken bat groundouts off of him. Nothing was hit hard. So there was something he was doing, be it location, velocity, pitch selection, or movement.

 

Another unique example is that one of our Fall League trainers is from the Braves system, and asked me what I thought of Capellan. I said that I liked what I saw of his mechanics, however, it was odd that this hard thrower was throwing only 91-92. He was shocked, saying that he rarely dropped as low as 94 last year on their guns, averaging 97-98 in each outing...that's right, averaging.

 

As for Rottino, I think his point was that he caught a lot early on, and rarely if ever after that (he said 20-something games). He felt it was because he was needed at other positions since they had two other competent catchers moreso than the Brewers deciding he couldn't catch.

[Mass Haas]

Here's a notes article from MLB.com:

 

brewers.mlb.com/NASApp/ml...p;c_id=mil

 

Here are final numbers for the Brewer representatives. Because the stats link lists only current Javelinas, we'll also list the players who left early separately:

 

Corey Hart, Vinny Rottino, Alcides Escobar, Steve Hammond, Brian Wolfe:

 

www.minorleaguebaseball.c...mp;cid=490

 

Mitch Stetter:

 

www.minorleaguebaseball.c...pid=449777

 

Prince Fielder:

 

www.minorleaguebaseball.c...pid=425902

 

Dana Eveland:

 

www.minorleaguebaseball.c...pid=445968

 

Mass Haas' grades:

 

Hart: A

1.051 OPS, played the corner spots both on the infield and outfield, and get this, didn't complain publicly about his AFL assignment!

 

Escobar: B+

Still not yet 19 years old, a reasonable five errors in 24 games, only struck out once every six at-bats, ran well -- the kid did everything but walk and hit for power, the two things that come easiest with age. Alcides really bailed the Brewers and his squad out with his performance. Way to go, young man!

 

Rottino: B

Nine walks pushes the OBP to .400; Vinny didn't catch, but did play in 13 games as a late addition.

 

Wolfe: B

A 15-to-1 K/BB ratio in 16.2 IP was nice; reliever ERA's in that sample size mean little, but we'll take Wolfe's 3.24; one thing for sure, he's on the radar, and may be given a shot at closing in Nashville.

 

Hammond: B-

The four HR's allowed in 15.1 innings covering four relatively effective starts is a bit troubling. The guy just completed his first professional season in the AFL, not bad, huh?

 

Stetter, Fielder, Eveland -- incomplete, or in some cases, indifferent -- see you boys in Maryvale in February.

 

J.J. Hardy -- hope that foot's OK, and that second-half swing is intact.

 

Hope evryone enjoyed the AFL updates, kind of one big off-season Link Report. Over 16,000 page views -- nice!

[Rob]

Joe Sheehan from Baseball Prospectus:

 

Alcides Escobar: I had never heard of Escobar before last Friday. He's 18 years old, and played the entire season in the Midwest League at 18. Forget how he played: he was a full-season shortstop at 18. That's worthy of attention all by itself. In the AFL, he showed off a nice gun and little in the way of offense. Considered to have a "projectable" body, he's expected to hit for more power over the next few seasons.

 

There are two organizations right now that are coming up on the outside, loaded with talent, with very little hype, doing a ton of things right: the Brewers and Devil Rays. I expect the Brewers to have a Twins-like run starting in 2007, maybe even 2006, and the D-Rays will not be far behind if they can become proactive about their talent distribution.

 

Corey Hart: Mixed reviews on Hart. Some people think he's an everyday player, others want to see him used as a utility regular, starting 4-5 times a week at four positions, because they don't think he's good enough at any one spot. Me, I'd live with him at third base in a Brewers infield that looks to be league-average for a total cost of $1.5 million, and make him prove that his '05 line at Nashville was a fluke.

 

 

 

 

 

I like it. Either way Hart is playing regularily. I really see a Hart/Cruz platoon in right.

[huntsvillefan]

As for Rottino, I think his point was that he caught a lot early on, and rarely if ever after that (he said 20-something games). He felt it was because he was needed at other positions since they had two other competent catchers moreso than the Brewers deciding he couldn't catch.

 

Possibly not, but they had two other catchers early on when he got to catch a lot, and they had plenty of guys to fill the other positions throughout the year. Effectively nothing changed except that Rottino just didn't start at catcher. I'm not questioning his impression, but the explanation as given just doesn't hang together.

[Mass Haas]

Baseball America has an AFL chat scheduled for 11:00 AM Central Friday...

 

www.baseballamerica.com/t...intro.html

[colbyjack]

Since I know someone will ask, no Brewers prospect was represented in their top 20 list. Corey Hart and Alcides Escobar better get some love in today's chat, and you have to figure Fielder would have been pretty high on the list had he played.

[DHonks]

on Stephen Drew (from the top 20 list):

 

He plays without much outward enthusiasm, leading some scouts to express concern about his competitive drive

 

In the fall league, most prospects walk around as if they think they're "big league." Stephen Drew started out quietly, and by mid-way through the season emerged as the lone player that truly carried himself like a big leaguer. It's funny that scouts question his "outward enthusiasm", because he was the only one on the team willing to call someone out for not trying, not caring, or not playing the game the proper way. He's going to be a star. His career path could be like Yount's...SS for a while, then OF. He'll hit like his brother, too.

[molitor fan]

Q: Patrick from Milwaukee, WI asks:

Thanks for the chat! Where did Corey Hart and Alcides Escobar fit onto the AFL top prospect scene? Also, where do you think Prince Fielder would have landed on the list had he played the entire season?

 

A: Chris Kline: Hart was 20-30, Escobar was in the next tier. If Fielder played, he would have been a top 10 guy.

 

Potential Brewer target Chris Young was 9th on the list, by the way, and apparently his lackuster showing was attributed to fatigue....

[Mass Haas]

MILB.com: "Mayo's Mailbag"

Nothing overly insightful...

 

www.minorleaguebaseball.c...;fext=.jsp

 

Just dropping you a line to ask about Corey Hart. I wasn't able to keep tabs on him in the AFL; how did he finish and do you think he'll be ready for everyday playing in the Majors? -- John, Milwaukee

 

John, I think he's ready now, to answer the second question first. The question is where? He went to the Arizona Fall League and did very well there with the bat, hitting .353 in 68 at-bats with five homers and 14 RBIs and stole four bases. He's the best base runner in the Brewers' system. He played a bunch at third, where he hadn't played in a while, but he also played first, left and a little bit in right field. There's a lot of talk when discussing the Brewers' system as far as Hart and Nelson Cruz, who is just about ready as well to play a corner outfield spot. Hart, by most indications, is slightly ahead of Cruz on the depth chart. He got some big league time earlier in the year, while Cruz got a late September call-up. Both helped Nashville win the PCL title. I think Hart could be the kind of guy who ends up moving around a little bit. Maybe they gave him a shot -- he played the outfield the past two years -- he can hit and he can run. I don't think there's anything wrong with having him play some right field and having him play some third base, as long as he can handle the transitions. There's no room for him at first, with Lyle Overbay and Prince Fielder there, so we'll have to wait and see what happens next Spring Training.

 

There's no room for him at first, with Lyle Overbay and Prince Fielder there, so we'll have to wait and see what happens next Spring Training.

 

Well, there will be plenty of room to spell Prince against tough lefties once Lyle is moved....

[Brian the Automator]

I received links to some AFL photos today from the person who runs Royalscorner.com:

 

i9.photobucket.com/albums...scobar.jpg

i9.photobucket.com/albums...cobar2.jpg

i9.photobucket.com/albums...cobar3.jpg

 

i9.photobucket.com/albums.../Hart5.jpg

i9.photobucket.com/albums.../Hart4.jpg

i9.photobucket.com/albums.../Hart2.jpg

i9.photobucket.com/albums.../Hart1.jpg