Iribarren Corked Bat: 3-game suspension; Nichols' Comments

[Mass Haas]

Brewerfan has learned that Brevard County second baseman (and 40-man roster player) Hernan Iribarren has been suspended by the Florida State League for using a corked bat in Saturday night's victory over Daytona at Space Coast Stadium in Viera (Brevard).

 

Because this occurred over a weekend, the FSL office has yet to determine the length of his suspension.

 

We are expecting to be able to link to pictures of the incident over the next day or two.

 

While the game log (6th / 7th inning), linked here, officially notes that "Hernan Iribarren grounds out to catcher Jake Fox" with two outs and runners on 2nd and 3rd, apparently the incident cost the Manatees two runs at the time, meaning likley it was a base hit taken away and score "2-unassisted".

 

www.minorleaguebaseball.c...a_breafa_1

 

We will post more as it becomes available.

[PeaveyFury]

While the game log (6th / 7th inning), linked here, officially notes that "Hernan Iribarren grounds out to catcher Jake Fox

 

Broken bat basehit, obviously. This is going to raise a lot of questions about how good he actually is as a prospect.

[bullox]

This is terrible news.

 

I foresee a big drop for him in the next Power 50.

 

Not to mention the Brewers brass hopes for him.

[WestCoastBrewer]

My concerns are what the organization plans on doing. I guess there are several options they can take.

 

I don't understand why he would do that, he is not a power guy, he uses his speed and is a gap to gap hitter.

 

In listening to yesterdays game every time we broke a bat their catcher ran and grabbed it to take a close look. A black eye of sorts for Milwaukee.

 

The league suspension is obvious, but could there be more within the organization?

[DHonks]

I've heard that lots of players doctor their bats. The ones to the handle are legal, but the other ways are tricky to catch. It's not as easy as drilling a hole and poring in some cork. There's probably websites out there that describe ways of corking bats

[huntsvillefan]

Its obviously not good, but I wouldn't get too downcast until the full story comes out. There are some pretty fancy bat rules in the minors and I have memories Brandon Gemoll getting thrown out of a playoff game for simply using a bat that wasn't on the SL approved list of makers.

You could still find that the breach was more of a technicality than anything that was giving him major assistance.

Lets hope so anyhow.

[berniebrewer4life]

Quote:

---

A black eye of sorts for Milwaukee.

---

 

It probably won't be too much of a story until he makes it to the big leagues. Even then it will probably be a footnote. Obviously this is not good, and brings into question how good he really is. But i don't see ESPN picking up on this story.

[bullox]

While the news likely won't make the national level, you can be sure that it will make it around the minor league clubhouses.

[dadofandrew]

Let's not forget, the corking of one's bat barely affects the ball, if at all. For a 2B with little pop, I don't think it makes much of a difference.

 

I'd be much more worried about his lack of intelligence.

[Mass Haas]

Adam McCalvy of MLB.com:

 

Prospect suspended: Minor League infielder Hernan Iribarren was ejected from a game Saturday for using a corked bat and was immediately suspended.

 

Iribarren is batting .287 with a home run and 24 RBIs in 44 games at Class A Brevard County. Brewers farm director Reid Nichols was at the game, a 10-9, extra-inning win, in which Iribarren was ejected in the sixth inning.

 

Iribarren has not played since, and Brewers general manager Doug Melvin said the team was waiting for a ruling from the Florida State League office on the length of Iribarren's suspension.

 

"I haven't heard the full story, whether he knew about the bat or not," Melvin said. "We'll talk over the next few days and collect all the facts."

 

Iribarren, 21, originally signed with Milwaukee as a non-drafted free agent in March 2002. He played in last year's All-Star Futures Game at Detroit's Comerica Park.

[PeaveyFury]

Let's not forget, the corking of one's bat barely affects the ball, if at all.

 

I would really like to see proof of that, Al. Link?

[PeaveyFury]

I'm not Al but here's a link supporting what he says.

 

Not to be skeptical, but the 'previous' link from that blog is "An Open Letter to Mr. Timberlake." http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

The F=ma example he uses as the crux of his argument is pretty flawed. Those aren't numbers that came from any sort of study or actual test, he's just throwing those out there. Say the batter drops the weight down an ounce and is able to swing it at 95mph, suddenly the force jumps to 3230. He's just throwing random numbers out that happen to prove his point.

[BillScottCanRake]

I remember everyone saying how stupid Sosa was for using a corked bat back when he was caught because it doesn't have the effect the players are looking for.

 

There is a baseball physics website that I used to have bookmarked that did an excellent job of saying why it was flawed and offering alternative methods for doctoring a bat that actually work. I'll see if I can dig that up that URL tonight.

[rotoherb]

To quote from the third article that you cited:

 

"If your goal in life is to hit home runs, then I don't think a corked bat is going to help you too much," said Nathan, who has published studies on the subject. "On the other hand, if you're sort of a contact hitter, a singles hitter, then a corked bat probably can help you."

 

Since Iribarren is indeed a contact hitter and not a power hitter, the article you provided actually contends that corking the bat may help him.

[PeaveyFury]

From that first article:

 

If the swing speed is kept constant, a heavier bat will always propel the ball faster and farther. So removing mass from the bat will actually reduce the batted-ball speed.

 

But earlier, it had said:

 

Less mass (lower inertia) means faster swing speed.

 

So the article first states that lowering the mass will speed up the swing speed, then later makes the crux of an argument based on something that he already knows isn't the case.

 

And I'm still looking for a study that shows how much faster a bat can be swung after shaving 1.5 ounces off the bat...

 

The last article provided an estimated speed, but didn't say how much weight they had removed.

[PeaveyFury]

Rotoherb has it right. That last article (where they actually did their own studies) clearly says that there could be a benefit for a guy like Hernan:

 

"If your goal in life is to hit home runs, then I don't think a corked bat is going to help you too much," said Nathan, who has published studies on the subject. "On the other hand, if you're sort of a contact hitter, a singles hitter, then a corked bat probably can help you."

 

A quicker swing means a batter can watch the ball longer before taking a cut.

 

"The longer you watch it, the more information you have as to how you want to swing at it," Nathan said.

 

Adair said the standard way for players to cork a bat is to drill a hole about 6 inches down the length of the bat and add cork, high-bouncing rubber balls or "whatever their fancy is." Sosa's bat contained a half-dollar-size piece of cork about halfway down the barrel.

 

Baseball players are famously superstitious, and if a player succeeds with a corked bat once, he is apt to use it again. Also, the reputation of corked bats has a strong hold on players looking for an advantage.

 

"Let's say you're expected to hit about .250 and about June 4 you're batting .205," Adair said. "Your timing is off, you can't seem to hit and you see your $2 million going out the window. You take an ounce off the bat and maybe it makes a difference."

[PeaveyFury]

And none of this is taking mental effects into account. If a player is corking his bat and is thinking that it's going to make him considerably better, then he probably will actually hit at least somewhat better. There is a mental aspect there that I know some people don't want to recognize.

[Team Canada]

So the article first states that lowering the mass will speed up the swing speed, then later makes the crux of an argument based on something that he already knows isn't the case.

 

Peavey, I think it's talking about 2 different things. There's the bat speed, which is faster with cork, and then the batted-ball (i.e. speed of the ball after hit by bat), which is less with cork because of the lighter bat.

[BillScottCanRake]

And none of this is taking mental effects into account. If a player is corking his bat and is thinking that it's going to make him considerably better, then he probably will actually hit at least somewhat better. There is a mental aspect there that I know some people don't want to recognize.

 

I'm sure there is a mental aspect. I'd argue that any mental edge gained by corking a bat is simply counteracting self-imposed limitations that all people place upon themselves.

 

Iribarren (and every other player) is physically limited in what he can do with a bat. No matter how much he trains, no matter how mentally focused and positive he is, there are certain physical barriers that he can't overcome.

 

It takes more than physical skill, however, to reach physical limits. I think it's pretty safe to say that Iribarren (and every other player) don't reach those physical limitations for a number of reasons, some of which are physical and some of which are mental.

 

Can using a corked back give Hernan a "mental lift" that will improve his actual on field performance if he thinks it will help? I'm sure he can, but it's only helping to overcoming his own mental limitations to physical performance. Hernan doesn't need cork for that any more than Roger Clemens needs Icy Hot in his jock or John Doe needs to eat spinach before every meal. While each may have the desired affect (of allowing the mind to work better with the body), there are other ways of getting that same affect, and at least what Roger and John do is within the rules.

 

Considering the risk involved, the (at best) mixed physical rewards, and other ways of obtaining the same physical and mental results, and I think Hernan made a rather curious decision.

[PeaveyFury]

Peavey, I think it's talking about 2 different things. There's the bat speed, which is faster with cork, and then the batted-ball

 

Yeah, I know that he's talking about the two different things, but when talking about the batted ball speed, he's assuming that the bat speed stays the same, which he already stated can't be assumed.

[PeaveyFury]

I'm sure he can, but it's only helping to overcoming his own mental limitations to physical performance.

 

It's obviously hard to quantify it one way or the other, especially since there's no real study that has yet been done to prove that in baseball.

 

There was, however, a great study released last week that showed the power of the mental aspect of athletics. Participants were asked to run a 5-K distance twice- the first time, they were given tap water for hydration purposes and told such. The second time, those same runners were given what they were told was super-oxygenated water that was being tested to prove athletic performance. In actuality, it was the same tap water they were given the first time.

 

The shocking result? Runners shaved an average of 1.5 MINUTES off their time the second trial.

 

Mind over matter isn't just a rumor. I'd be very interested in seeing a study with a handful of baseball players given a set number of pitches with a regular bat, and then with what they're told is a corked bat to see what the result would be.

[Team Canada]

hen talking about the batted ball speed, he's assuming that the bat speed stays the same, which he already stated can't be assumed.

 

Roger.

[DHonks]

as for the mental aspect...I golf quite a bit, and some times the cup seems huge, other times it's tiny. We know it's the same size, but just shows how things can fluctuate

[Mass Haas]

Baseball America's Daily Dish:

Link, text follows --

 

www.baseballamerica.com/t...61488.html

 

Brewers second baseman Hernan Iribarren burst onto the prospect scene in 2004, grabbing attention when he won the Rookie-level Arizona League batting title and went on to have a red-hot 15-game stint at low Class A Beloit.

 

Now in the high Class A Florida State League, Iribarren garnered more attention over the weekend, but not the kind the Brewers would like to see.

 

Iribarren was ejected by the home-plate umpire in the seventh inning of Brevard County's 10-9 12-inning win against Daytona after his bat cracked, and pieces of cork came flying out--with farm director Reid Nichols in attendance.

 

"It really didn't matter if I was there or not--this was unprofessional from the start regardless of whether anyone from the organization was there," Nichols said. "We are all very disappointed and this is obviously something we don't condone."

 

It is unclear how long Iribarren, who was 0-for-3 on the night, had been using his corked bat. But it wasn't helping him generate power, something that has always been missing from the slap-and-dash middle infielder's game. Through 174 at-bats, Iribarren was hitting .287/.323/.356 with nine extra-base hits, including one homer.

 

"It was drilled and corked through," Nichols said. "He apologized to his teammates and the staff, but this is inexcusable. It's embarrassing to him and it's embarrassing to the organization."

 

Iribarren received just a three-game suspension from the Florida State League for the incident.

[bsglorydays]

The suspensions are a joke. 3 games from the league and 3 additional games from the Brewers. This clown is on the 40-man roster, and all the Brewers add is 3 games to his suspension? That's barely a slap on the wrist. I don't have a problem with the league giving him a light suspension - that's their business. But the Brewers should have laid down the law to the tune of about 20 games, IMO. Sosa got 10 games, and I thought that was a joke. But a grand total of 6 games for Iribarren is pathetic.