Pick your set-up man

[DougJones43]

There have been rumblings lately on this board that Turnbow should be replaced as the set-up man. Assuming that we don't trade for any bullpen help, I think that the logical competetion for the role would be Carlos Villanueva. If the Brewers decide to keep Villanueva in the bullpen for the longterm, who would you like to see as the primary set-up pitcher, and why?

 

For reference, here is a comparison of their 2007 stats:

 <span style="text-decoration:underline">IP</span> <span style="text-decoration:underline">ERA</span> <span style="text-decoration:underline">WHIP</span> <span style="text-decoration:underline">vsOPS</span> <span style="text-decoration:underline">K/9</span> <span style="text-decoration:underline">K/BB</span> <span style="text-decoration:underline">G/F</span> Turnbow 33.2 4.01 1.16 .558 10.96 2.73 1.30 Villanueva 51.2 2.79 1.20 .667 8.19 2.14 0.81 

[DHonks]

I'd rather have Villanueva throw the 7th and 8th one day, while Turnbow sets up the next two.

[sbrylski]

I'd rather have Villanueva throw the 7th and 8th one day, while Turnbow sets up the next two.

 

Bingo.

 

Or how about Gallardo? Why not just let Gallardo and Villanueva handle the 7th and 8th innings. One 2+ inning game, two days off. That leaves one game of three days where Turnbow, Wise, and are needed, if we have a few close games in a row.

[razzzorsharp]

T-Bow.

[sweepscc]

How about Bush. Perfect set up man.

[Hammer]

Parra. All joking aside I would rather have Chuckie Newhouse (Carlos V) in the role. I realize that we'd need to find a new long man but he has the stones and the stuff to thrive in that spot...'

 

 

Edit: Bush has the look...that is for sure. I wouldn't want to face the "serial killer" in a one inning stint. People will probably bring up the fact that he has had issues in the 1st inning but when he knows that he will only need 3 outs he could dial it up a little bit more and let it fly...

[wisportswriter]

T-Bow.

 

Wouldn't using CV in a setup role take him further away from being a starter? Isn't he expected to be a starter again some day? Am I wrong on that? Why I am asking so many questions?

[DougJones43]

Wouldn't using CV in a setup role take him further away from being a starter?

 

Probably.

 

 

Isn't he expected to be a starter again some day?

 

I don't know. Maybe. That's why I posed this as a hypothetical, assuming the Brewers had decided to keep him in a bullpen role for the foreseeable future.

[TheCrew07]

I would rather they go with the hot hand. If Villy pitches the 7th and mows em down, then let him have the 8th. I'm not big on all these defined roles, define the role for closer, get the most out of everyone else I say.

[sweepscc]

I agree with you, go with the hot hand. Let em get six guys out. And don't put T-bow in with a one run lead.

[Nearsighted Views]

I think this thread gets at the root of it. It's funny how rigid Yost is with the bullpen and loose with the lineup.

 

Outside of Cordero being the closer, I'm not sure anyone should be an automatic in any situation. Both Villy and Turnbow have times where they fit. The one thing I'd like to see more of moving forward is a short leash when T-bow starts throwing the ball all over the joint.

 

It's just ironic how you can't mess with the 8th, 9th thing but you can change the lineup every day.

[valpocrewsader]

FWIW...

 

 MAY IP ERA WHIP vsOPS K/9 K/BB G/F Turnbow 10.1 7.84 1.55 xxxx 6.97 xxxx xxxx Villanueva 22.1 2.42 1.03 xxxx 6.85 xxxx xxxx JUNE IP ERA WHIP vsOPS K/9 K/BB G/F Turnbow 11.0 2.45 1.00 xxxx 9.82 xxxx xxxx Villanueva 15.1 2.35 1.11 xxxx 8.80 xxxx xxxx

 

For me, this might be a case where stats don't tell the whole story. I'm just sick of Turnbow and his constantly tense, panicked look. (And jesus, stop walking people!!) Give me Villy and his calm, cool demeaner.

 

Or, better yet, go out and get someone better than both, DM.

[Brian the Automator]

Earl Weaver says to go with the hot hand...

[Never Outhustled]

Quote:

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Or how about Gallardo? Why not just let Gallardo and Villanueva handle the 7th and 8th innings. One 2+ inning game, two days off. That leaves one game of three days where Turnbow, Wise, and are needed, if we have a few close games in a row.

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I second the motion. I guess that makes it official.

[Ennder]

Quote:

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How about Bush. Perfect set up man.

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Bush has two problems with his game, one is that he has problems getting outs in the first inning his pitches and the other is that he struggles out of the stretch. He could easily be the worst option on the entire team for a setup man.

[RU Rah Rah]

Hey, T-Bow went out and got 4 outs in the 8th inning last night. He should get some props for going the extra mile there.

[rluzinski]

For me, this might be a case where stats don't tell the whole story.

 

I don't see how carving up the small samples into even smaller ones paints a clearer a pitcher.

 

Turnbow has blown up a few times but I'm not sure what people expect from him. He's a good enough but not great reliever who prone to blowing up on occasion. As a fan, I'd rather suffer through some tense situations if it means an overall better option than the alternative.

 

I don't think think Villy is obviously better than Turnbow. Where Villy beats him is in his ability to go more than 1 inning. Making Villy the new setup guy negates that advantage. If Villy hadn't been up in the order last night, I'd like to think Yost would have used Villy in the 8th last night. That would be a perfect way to use him, IMO.

[TheCrew07]

Ohh yea, about Villy... if he's one of the best 5 pitchers on the team, he better be in the rotation where we can get 200+ innings out of him. Limiting him to 70-80 innings every year would be a considerable waste of resources in my opinion.

 

Unless you bring up someone who's been injury prone like Parra and make him a starter next year, then it doesn't hurt to have that insurance. Long term though, I hope Villy is in the rotation.

[JohnBriggs12]

While I think Villanueva would be a great starter, I wouldn't be shocked if he's the closer in 2008, with T-Bow still in the setup role. Trevor Hoffman and Doug Jones before him have been premium closers with a changeup as their out pitch.

[Kraft4a3]

Just checking out the league leaders in holds just to get a sample top setup men. Turnbow's stats hold up with anyone's. I'll take T-bow until he starts blowing two in a week instead of one every month.

 

Holds

[Fatter than Joey]

Bush has two problems with his game, one is that he has problems getting outs in the first inning his pitches

 

I am curious on what you base this statement on. All but 3 of Bush's career appearances have come as a starter.

 

I don't think it is fair to conclude that a starter who struggles in inning 1 of a game will struggle in their first inning out of the pen. The situations are entirely different. Inning 1 for a starter is going to guarentee 3 of the best hitters in the lineup. Inning 1 for a reliever could be the 3 worst. Plus a reliever has the advantage of a batter getting tuned into another pitcher, someone like Bush could be really hard to adjust to after a batter faced someone like Sheets 3 times.

 

While you could be right, I think that this is a very weak argument to make to keep Bush out of the pen.

[1992casey]

Turnbow should be the 'regular' setup man. Villanueva (and Gallardo) can spell Derrick or Matt Wise at times to make sure they have adequate rest.

 

The one-inning outings Carlos has had this year haven't seemed to get in the way of anything. With Yo now entering the bullpen picture, it would seem that between the two of them, the opportunity for more one-inning outings would become available.

[sweepscc]

Villanueva better not be closing next year. That would be an extreme waste to limit his innings to that tune, imo. Melvin's going to have purchase a set-up man/closer either this offseason or hopefully this summer yet. Either that or give the job to T-bow and pray to the baseball gods his psyche doesn't fall apart for half the year again. I'm much more comfortble with option A.

[DougJones43]

Turnbow has blown up a few times but I'm not sure what people expect from him. He's a good enough but not great reliever who prone to blowing up on occasion.

 

To be fair, he's probably prone to blowing up more than just "a few times" or "on occasion." It was just last year that he melted down for an entire half of a season, so obviously he can be bad for long stretches at a time. He can also be great for long stretches as well though.

 

So far, he's been doing a decent enough job this year. He just strikes me as having a very fragile psyche, and that will always concern me a little bit, particularly anytime he starts getting guys on base.

[Brian the Automator]

[ To be fair, he's probably prone to blowing up more than just "a few times" or "on occasion." It was just last year that he melted down for an entire half of a season, so obviously he can be bad for long stretches at a time. He can also be great for long stretches as well though. ]

 

And the year before that he was untouchable for the entire year.

 

Personally, I'm encouraged that he's figured out how to bounce back from bad outings this year. To me, a permanent meltdown ala 2006 doesn't seem likely.