Linebrink acquired for Inman/Garrison/Thatcher

[jaybird2001wi]

This may have been answered already, but does this deal mean Balfour goes to AAA?

[MoneyballMan]

This may have been answered already, but does this deal mean Balfour goes to AAA?

 

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he's out of options. So, he'll need to clear waivers in order to be sent down. And I think there's some question about whether or not he'll clear. Seems to be fair agreement that he has good stuff, but just pitched differently up here. A full year in AAA probably would have done him some good after injury, but now it may be another team that can take a chance on him.

[logan82]

He is out of options.

 

EDIT: With the general need for middle relief throughout the league I would be willing to bet he doesn't clear waivers. I think Melvin is probably looking to trade him. Just my opinion though. Makes more sense to me than trying to get him through waivers.

[BillScottCanRake]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he's out of options. So, he'll need to clear waivers in order to be sent down. And I think there's some question about whether or not he'll clear. Seems to be fair agreement that he has good stuff, but just pitched differently up here. A full year in AAA probably would have done him some good after injury, but now it may be another team that can take a chance on him.

 

Depending on what the Brewers think of Balfour, an option would be to start Parra in the afternoon game on Saturday, option him to AAA after and add Linebrink to the 25-man roster. That would allow the Brewers to keep Balfour if they want.

[TheCrew07]

Why does aquiring Linebrink all of a sudden make us a playoff team? We're right there in the Wildcard and Divisional races but isn't that putting the cart before the horse?

 

The problem with this team is that everyone seems to slump (except Braun) at the same time, then hit at the same time. Or the starting pitchers have a stretch where 3 of 5 aren't pitching well... then the bullpen... and so on. This has been a strange season to say the least.

 

If the Brewers don't turn things around on the road they aren't going anywhere. A single reliever pitching maybe 30 innings tops isn't going to put us over the top. A single reliever that has to pitch very well to get us 2 comp picks... or the deal really sucks.

 

I understand the whole "win now" mentality, but I just don't see it this year. We are at the start of run here, these things take time. Look at the Packers... they finally beat San Fran, then they beat Dallas, then they won it all. Yes the Tigers made a huge leap last year, but the only team in the NL with arguably similar pitching is the Padres. I have no problem aquiring talent via a trade, but it better the correct talent in the correct time. This trade just smacks of desperation to me, or a move for the sake of making a move.

 

I like Melvin, I always have... I liked the Suppan signing at the time, I'd rather have Vargas and Estrada than Davis, I've been behind him on every move. However, I'm not going to jump on the bandwagon with this move at this time. Maybe next year after the draft my position will change, but right now I'm not sold that 20-30 innings is going to put this team over the top.

 

The biggest problem with this team right now is that Sheets is once again on the DL, except this time the Crew really isn't able to afford not to have him. Spare the "it's not his fault he's always injured argument" as that's not my point. Yes you can just plug in Yo there for the time being, but I would have rather Yo stayed in the pen until mid August and then we had a Sheets and Yo 1-2 punch. Now we'll have just Sheets as a starting pitcher for the stretch run. Unless of course they throw the innings limit out the window for Yo...

 

Still the bottom line is that Linebrink has to be a type A free agent or this trade will blow up on DM, that's as simple as I can put it. Saying that making the playoffs would make this a great trade is just an opinion, it's hardly fact. It's very debatable how much impact this trade will have have on the playoff hunt. That's something that only hindsight this winter will tell us.

 

Also, as for the comments about us minor league fan that over value our prospects... that may be true, but we started the year with a stud pitcher at every level of the minor league system; Yo at AAA, Parra at AA, Inman at A+, Periard-Braddock-Jeffress at A, Seidel-Tyson-Anundsen-Bryson at R+. Due to promotions (nothing wrong with them), trades, and injuries the cupboard is pretty bare all the way down to A ball with Jeffress pitching well for his age and Periard doing well but not great. We've gone from a position of great depth to a position of "not much" by next year. Calling us short sighted because you think we have problem giving up prospects for talent leads me to believe that many people have entirely missed our point. Being short sighted is looking at this season by itself, this season is make or break... The flip side of the coin is the many people that question this deal are looking at the big picture and are looking for long term success for this franchise.

 

Inman and Thatcher may never pan out, but 3 players all in the upper levels of the minor leagues for 20-30 innings of a pitcher seems very expensive in terms of depth for the long haul. I'm happy that Thatcher gets to chase his dream immediately, he's a fantastic story. I'm not happy with the timing of the deal, the player, or the cost to get the player. The published reports for the Texas trade that fell through really lowered my expectations for the talent it would cost to aquire a reliever. Again, for this trade to be worthwhile long term, Linebrink has to be type A free agent, while we can speculate that he will, it's hardly fact that he is at this point and time. If he is, then the Brewers have to do well with the draft, a true evaluation of this trade won't be able to happen for 2-3 years.

 

 

edit. completed my thought in the final paragraph

[MoneyballMan]

TheCrew07: I agree almost entirely with your post. I was just wondering if Mark A pressured DM a little bit into "making a deal". There's just enough that bothers me about it - like it's not a typical DM move. Even if Inman/Garrison/Thatcher don't pan out, I think we could have used them to acquire more in the off season (alone or in packages). It does seem like a desperate move.

[logan82]

Quote:

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We've gone from a position of great depth to a position of "not much" by next year.

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I disagree with this. We currently have 8 starting pitchers on our big league roster this year that will be back next year. Even in 2010, 5 of those starters will still be under our control. That doesn't include anybody in the minors or take any contract extentions into account. I am not saying I like the trade. Trading for relievers, or any midseason trade for that matter, is not going to get you the best return.

[TheCrew07]

Quote:

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We currently have 8 starting pitchers on our big league roster this year that will be back next year.

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I'd be shocked if all 8 pitchers were on the roster next year...

 

2 of the 3 of Cappy, Vargas, and Bush will likely be gone. While it makes sense to burn a year up in the pen for a young pitcher, I really don't see why our best pitchers wouldn't be in the rotation. I'll call my shot now... Next year's rotation will be Sheets, Yo, Suppan, 1 of Cappy-Vargas-Bush. 1 of Villy-Parra... once the 2 of the 8 are gone, our depth doesn't exist anymore. The system's best healthy pitcher in Jeffress will be in A+ working on his stuff. Rogers may come back and be effective, but he wasn't all that effective before his shoulder surgery as a starter, but who's knows where he'll end up or what he'll do. He was at A+ when he got hurt, so hopefully he'd start there. Braddock is currently down with a shoulder problem, and Periard is quitely having a pretty nice season at A ball, but I'm not sure what to make of him yet. So while our depth is still good today, going into next season we'll be pretty thin with Starting pitching depth in the organization.

 

edit. Made it clear I view Jeffress as the systems best prospect at this time.

[jackalope02ca]

While I agree with those thinking we are on the start of a good run for a few years look what happened in Philly last night with Utley.

 

If the same were to happen to a similar Brewer position player next year I don't care how good you are you could likely kiss away any chance of the playoffs. That's why you need to go for it now because I guarantee it will happen in the next couple of years in a position we don't have the depth to replace in.

[hauser42]

Also, as for the comments about us minor league fan that over value our prospects... that may be true, but we started the year with a stud pitcher at every level of the minor league system; Yo at AAA, Parra at AA, Inman at A+, Periard-Braddock-Jeffress at A, Seidel-Tyson-Anundsen-Bryson at R+. Due to promotions (nothing wrong with them), trades, and injuries the cupboard is pretty bare all the way down to A ball with Jeffress pitching well for his age and Periard doing well but not great. We've gone from a position of great depth to a position of "not much" by next year. Calling us short sighted because you think we have problem giving up prospects for talent leads me to believe that many people have entirely missed our point. Being short sighted is looking at this season by itself, this season is make or break... The flip side of the coin is the many people that question this deal are looking at the big picture and are looking for long term success for this franchise.

 

Take a look at why we are low in the top end prospects of the minors, Last 3 years are infield has been turned over the to the youth, Hart was added to the OF, also take out Yo, Carlos V, and Parra. Most farm systems in the bigs will be lacking upper talents.

 

Melvin is in a spot that most GMs dream of that is having a chance to make a run at the playoffs. To do that some wholes have to be filled and the bullpen has been taxed this year so we needed a arm. 3 arms that might be part of the future are not a big amount to pay. Look at the guys that have never made it from the minors to the bigs.

 

Next year even if the don't get extra picks the front office will keep reloading this system like it has over the last couple of year. With the young guys and depth with starting pitching options on the big league club there is not a real need for young starters.

 

I dont buy into the notion that 2 of Cappy, Vargas, Bush will be gone next year. I think one of them might be moved for a corner OFer but 2 of them would be a bit of a reach.

[Invader3K]

I still feel that if the Brewers are going to hold onto their lead, another bat is needed, as evidenced by the anemic offense. I don't know if it's feasible or has any chance of happening, but I just don't see this lineup turning things around the way they're going...

[sgtcluels]

According to Rotoworld it's Balfour (Per Jsonline). I just don't see Balfour clearing waivers at all, someone will pick him up for middle relief.

[TauPentaRei]

Bad place to mention Thatcher pitched a perfect inning with a K for his Major League debut? (albeit it was mop-up, not like the situations we put Grant in)

 

The only thing making me feel better about this trade is that the bullpen becomes "better than the sum of its individual parts." Call it comaraderie, professionalism, competetiveness, the challenge, call it what you will. In short, I can see Turnbow and Cordero (and others) getting better - because they are around Leinies... I don't see Derrick and Francis learning a whole lot from Balfour.

 

I don't pretend to unilaterally know the psychology of the bullpen pitcher... if they are pitching for themselves, pitching to impress the others, competing against one another, etc... but Linebrink must have the "been-around the 500 saves guy" vibe & aura going for him that will surely rub off.

 

The comments coming from Hoffman, Peavy and Wells also make me feel warm and fuzzy...

 

?The best,? Wells said. ?Just being around him made you better..."

 

Average age of 30 over there in the pen... akin to Villy jumping from high school to a Masters program.

 

 

EDIT: Thatcher got Ensberg looking at strike 3, popped up Jason lane and Eric Bruntlett grounded out.

[Ennder]

So he didn't get any major league players out?

[GenoSeligPrieb]

but he's getting torched in AA this year

 

"Sorry Geno, but you're continuing a long line of posters spouting untruths about Inman's performance at AA."

 

Well, TC, here are his numbers in AA this year:

 

8 games

1-5 record

39 2/3 IP

24 earned runs

7 HRs

5.44 ERA

 

Can you blame me for not lacking confidence in those stats?

 

To quote Jasper, from the Simpsons:

 

"Yep. That's a paddlin'!"

 

___________

 

By the way, I LOVED this:

 

"Between you and Geno, I thought for sure there was going to be enough angst and cynicism about how we're "mortgaging the future" to fill up several Cure albums."

 

September 29th! The 8th time I'll see my favorite band. How did you know, Don?

[don1481]

Quote:

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Can you blame me for not lacking confidence in those stats?

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Let's look at Inman's last, oh, 5 starts in AA:

 

6/30: 6IP 1ER 4BB 6K

7/05: 5.2IP 3ER 0BB 7K

7/11: 4IP 0ER 5BB 5K

7/17: 6IP 2ER 1BB 7K

7/23: 7.1IP 2ER 2BB 5K

 

Now, it seems to me like Inman, now that he's not suffering from mono, was doing just fine in AA.

 

So basically, to sum up Inman's AA body of work, it was 2 horrific starts (2.2IP, 6ER in his debut and 2IP, 7ER in his third start) that caused all of this misconception. The kid righted the ship just fine, if you ask me.

 

Anyways, good luck to Mr. Inman in the San Diego system. May he do well in the bigs... except, of course, against Milwaukee.

[BillScottCanRake]

Geno, look at his game logs, and note that his first couple of games were pitched with mono.

 

 

 <span style="text-decoration:underline">Date OPP W L ERA SV IP H ER BB SO</span> Jun 15 BIR 0 1 20.25 0 2.2 6 6 2 2 Jun 20 @TEN 0 1 4.50 0 6.0 4 3 0 6 Jun 25 CHA 0 1 31.50 0 2.0 8 7 2 4 Jun 30 @WTN 1 0 1.50 0 6.0 1 1 4 6 Jul 05 TEN 0 1 4.76 0 5.2 8 3 0 7 Jul 11 @CHA 0 0 0.00 0 4.0 4 0 5 5 Jul 17 TEN 0 0 3.00 0 6.0 4 2 1 7 Jul 23 @JAX 0 1 2.45 0 7.1 3 2 2 5 Totals 1 5 5.45 0 39.2 38 24 16 42

 

In his last five starts for the Stars, Inman allowed only eight earned runs over 29 innings (2.48 ERA), walking 12 while striking out 30. His ability to strike out more than one more than one per inning is a good sign, though admittedly over only 30 innings.

 

Now, you might still think he's not going to amount to anything. But, small sample caveat noted, doesn't it at least look like he might have pitched OK once he recovered from mono? And isn't that a pretty decent adjustment to AA for a 20-year-old?

 

I don't mind someone having an opinion about Inman "that he sucked in AA", but I think they should really look at what went on in each game instead of simply glancing at his total numbers.

[bullox]

I was at the game on the 17th against Tennessee. He looked very good - although the fastball never really got above 89-90. He showed good poise on the mound, good pitching smarts, and a decent breaking ball.

[TauPentaRei]

"...You win baseball games with Pitching, Speed and Defense..."

- old man pushing a broom.

 

Nowhere in that venerable quote do you see minor league prospects.

 

The backlash had Mark, Doug, Ned & Associates, LLC stood pat at the trade deadline would have been outrageous... bemoaning complacency, timidness and small marketness. "oh, but look at the cubs, look at the cubs they got kendall". And let the record show Doug did not make a move just for the sake of making a move... this team is better, and how. Now.

 

Buckle up boys and girls there are 60 games left. Now about that speed and defense...

[BillScottCanRake]

And let the record show Doug did not make a move just for the sake of making a move... this team is better, and how. Now.

 

I certainly don't think that's a fact, and it's certainly an opinion that can be debated. There are legitimate concerns about Linebrink, and he has 60 games to make those who are concerned he is not the pitcher he was a few years ago change that opinion.

[don1481]

Quote:

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Geno, look at his game logs, and note that his first couple of games were pitched with mono.

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Hey, BSCR, I see brilliant minds think alike!http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

 

As far as the backlash if nothing was acquired goes, with people saying "but the Cubs got Kendall," I say that the Cubs made a move to pretty much make a move. The Kendall addition is even less significant than the Linebrink one, IMO.

 

As BSCR also said, Linebrink has 60 games to show whether or not his acquisition was a good move (without bringing the prospects' future performance into further discussion). If he does well, I bid him farewell and good luck in either Yankees pinstripes or at Fenway. If he does not, I suspect there'll be a lot of people here saying "Why, Doug, Why?"

[GenoSeligPrieb]

Fair enough, Chris.

 

As you probably already know, I don't enjoy access to as comprehensive a level of stats as everyone else does, as I'm here at work, so game logs weren't available for me.

 

But again, looking at those overall numbers, you could see why anyone could have felt he was getting torched, right?

 

And by the way, if Inman is going to get a mulligan for those bad games due to the mono, then shouldn't Scott get that same latitude as his wife is about to deliver a baby?

 

Hell, I was a mess...with my THIRD kid! Couldn't focus as readily as I was accustomed to, made mistakes. It happens!

 

In 1998, following a year where he posted a 1.067 OPS and a .347 BA, Frank Thomas was only good for a .265 BA as his OPS dropped by over 200 points. He was healthy enough to play all but 2 games in '98, so what was wrong? He was going through a nasty divorce, and was profoundly distracted.

 

Someone else noted, up-thread, that Scott's game logs this year show he posted a shutout appearance most of the time, only 1 earnie a few other times, and perhaps 2 very recent torchings. And now that his kid will (hopefully) enter the world without incident, a relaxed, focused and healthy Scott Linebrink, who's not so old that he's a candidate for a career free-fall all of a sudden, could VERY possible revert to his terrific piching habits, don't ya think?

 

And again, 30 appearances (every other game or so) of a Scott Linebrink, replacing on the roster an on-the-job trainee like a Balfour has GOT to influence our chances at a postseason berth...

[PaulRigdon]

There is a lot to filter through here so this may or may not been covered. I apologize if it has...

 

As far as this move I look at it this way. Its a move that seems to be widely unpopular. However I have a feeling that if we didnt make this move and the Cubs had sent 3 prospects for Linebrink people would be screaming that all it took for the cubs to get him was a couple of prospects. Why didnt we do that?

 

It seems like no matter what people are going to be disappointed. However if you would have told me in April that in late July we'd be in 1st place and just solidified our bullpen with one of the best arms in the league I'd have been exstatic. All I know now is that the days of Jose Capellan, Grant Balfour, Allan Simpson, Joe Wiklesas, etc...are behind us.

[don1481]

Quote:

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Fair enough, Chris.

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Hey now! I had the exact same response to you up first! Where's the love, Geno, where's the love? Oh wait... it's me we're talking about here...http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

 

Quote:

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And by the way, if Inman is going to get a mulligan for those bad games due to the mono, then shouldn't Scott get that same latitude as his wife is about to deliver a baby?

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Yes, which is also why some of us have said that the remaining 60 games will be a true test as to whether or not he was worth it. Inman already showed that he was able to bounce back. Hopefully Linebrink will as well. I guess we'll find out soon enough.

[Invader3K]

I'll raise the point, that's been said before, that pitching well against minor league hitters doesn't necessarily equate to MLB success. Look at Hendrickson and Eveland. I'm not saying Inman can't or won't do well, but a few nice starts doesn't guarantee he'll be successful in the big show.