Linebrink acquired for Inman/Garrison/Thatcher

[patrickgpe]

I was pretty shocked when the trade went down yesterday evening, but I will reserve judgment for now. I think those who say we gave up too much will admit that the major league team is better now than it was before. We will loose balfour and get linebrink. I hate giving up what we gave up too, but truth be told inmann stuggled in his transaction to AA ball. Of course he is young and was facing more advanced hitters so he may straighten himself out. I hope the best for him. Thatcher was someone I felt could help us down the stretch on the big league club. He was though an older prospect facing younger hitters in AAA ball. I am interested to see how he does in san diego. Ill admit I do not know enough about garrison to make a judgement.

[molitor fan]

In response to the previous post, This was from this morning's jsonline:

 

Melvin said Linebrink "took the trade hard" because of his time with San Diego and the fact his wife is due to deliver a baby in the next few days. The Padres were in Colorado and Linebrink was scheduled to return home to Austin, Texas, before joining the Brewers in St. Louis.

[GenoSeligPrieb]

"Well there goes the PCL, Southern League, and FSL championships. Im just so very angry right now. "

 

Even if Linebrink plays a major role, pitching 40% of our games the rest of the way, as we nose out a division title over the Cubs?

 

Not to single you out, but minor league championships are NOT what the 30 MLB franchises are all about. You either use your farm system to depth to play for the parent club, or you use it to trade for help for the major league club.

 

I could care less whether these potential championships in the bush leagues are won or not. All we should care, is that these A, AA & AAA clubs are feeding us the proper talent.

 

"put me down for Balfour being the closer next season

 

notice how that wasn't in Blue "

 

http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/laugh.gif .... Oh, wait. You're NOT kidding? OK, maybe if Balfour's the closer at Nashville, but even then...

 

"Will Inman didn't have the greatest stuff, but it's better than Villanueva's, who we love; and he has the same understanding of how to pitch and maybe even more moxy."

 

To quote the obsolete robot Cartridge Unit, from Futurama:

 

"What?!"

 

"I have nothing against trading away prospects for talent. We are talking about trading prospects away for 25 innings and a couple draft picks. Melvin better be pretty darn sure that Inman will never be a starter in the majors. "

 

Correct me if you've ever expressed feelings to the contrary, Russ, but you really seem to consistently be a pro-nugget guy.

 

And while you view Linebrink as just 25 innings, how about this?:

 

- Reports say Doug's looking to extend Linebrink's deal, so it's very possible his acquisition will entail more than 25 innings..

 

- Scott is a workhorse. Over the last 4 seasons, he averaged a little over 79 innings per year. And he had around half that in 2007 now. With Boosh, Goosio and SoupCan giving us 5, maybe 6 innings every time out, Linebrink could very easily provide us with another 35 innings, maybe more. He once pitched 92+ in 2003!

 

- And even if SL is only good for 25 more innings, those are 25 innings where we WON'T endure the performance art of a Grant Balfour.

 

- Finally, since Scott tends to average 1 full inning per outing, those 25 innings could translate out to 25 appearances, which is a lot. But again, I expect more like 30 outings, and with 61 games left to go, he'll be a crucial part of our pen.

 

"Most scouts seemed to think Inman would hit a wall before he made it to the majors and so far that appears to be the case this season. I'm not all that upset about the loss personally."

 

I agree with Ennder 100%.

 

Of course Inman's only 20, but he's getting torched in AA this year, and there's no guarantee he'll make it to the majors anyway.

 

Thatcher has terrific numbers this year, but he's only been promoted to AAA a few months ago, and he's 26.

 

And if we don't retain Menchkins in LF, that frees us $13,000,000 to a) add a LF for, say, $8-9 million a year, and double the salary of Linebrink to lure him to stay. Scott's 30 now, and he can either sign a multi-year deal to stay in Milwaukee, or we get comp picks, and still have money to maneuver with.

 

It's funny, that I was just saying yesterday that I wouldn't like a deal of an Inman-type for a guy who pitched once a week. But Linebrink is much more than that.

 

Great deal!

 

"Griping about the cost of relievers during a playoff race is like refusing to have fun on your trip to Disney World because the food is so expensive. "

 

Anton again says it best! Nice analogy...

[hauser42]

I tell you, along with Gregmag and others I have about HAD IT with individuals that have different perspectives on this trade denigrating a different opinion that theirs on the trade in this manner. This thread is rife with disrespect, especially towards the contingent that follow prospects closely.

 

So maybe it should have been worded better. But to worry about 3 guys that might help this team in the future when we have a chance at a pennant is not right. ANY team small market or not knows when it has a chance to make a run they make the moves that are needed.

 

I follow prospect also not to the depth that a lot do on this site, but all three of these guys can be replaced in very little time. I actully liked Garrison better than the other 2 but to shore up the pen and a chance at bigger things time to move him.

[patrickgpe]

if we win the central and linebrink helps out, noone is going to care about minor league championships or if Inmann makes it to the show in 2 years.

[rotoherb]

While I'm not jumping for joy over this deal, I don't get the "this is a terrible trade" talk. I haven't read every post, but from what I can gather most people are under the impression that Inman was the top prospect in the system. You'd be hard pressed to find any scout right now that would put him in that position, as he'd definitely rank behind Gallardo, Jeffress and likely behind LaPorta and Parra as well.

 

I still think that Melvin gave up quite a bit, maybe more than he's have to for another pitcher of similar status. From listening to his pregame comments it became clear that he has been pretty obsessed with Linebrink for a number of years and hopefully that didn't cloud his judgement.

 

I do find it interesting that 20-30 years ago there would have been almost no outcry to this trade at all. It would have probably gotten a 99% approval rating from the fans. There was no internet and no one had any idea who minor leaguers were or how they even rated. Any and every trade that was minor leaguers for a major league player was hailed as a great trade. That was obviously the wrong approach, but really the only one fans could make because of the lack of information. Now, I think the internet has swung the pendulum past the point of objectivity and way to the other side. The internet has given fans the ability to follow prospects from the day they are drafted and even allows them to become personally attached to each one. They see stats, they get caught up in other fans' hype for a player, but they never actually see the player pitch. I don't love this trade, mainly because I think they could have gotten a reliever who I think is better than Linebrink, but I don't see it as being a bad trade either. I do think they got better in the bullpen and better as a team this year.

[bucksman4]

You have to trust DM, bottom line.

 

I know it's tough for some people to fathom the possibility of losing Inman, but it's natural because we've never HAD to feel this way. We're used to dumping off our high priced free agents-to-be on other playoff-bound teams looking to shore up their team's deficiencies.

 

This is a strange position to be in as a Brewers fan. In my lifetime, I haven't witnessed this situation: a situation where adding a key component or two can reshape a pennant race and put us over the top. Linebrink, for all accounts and purposes, is a very solid and experienced bullpen arm. When you look at the likes of Spurling, Balfour and even an inexperienced Parra, adding a guy like Scott makes me feel more comfortable as a Brewers fan.

[Bruce Ciskie]

If we're going to follow the Twins' model, as has been suggested, shouldn't we either stand pat or make a really minor move at the deadline?

 

To me, this move signifies a desire to win as much or more than anything the Twins have ever done at the deadline.

[Ennder]

If we wanted to follow the Twins model we'd stop drafting defense defficient power hitters. I think we are trying to follow the Brewer model.

[brewmann04]

Now melvin needs to sign Either Scott or Coco or we will be without a closer for 2008.

 

I still think melvin will make another Move before Tues.

[Brian the Automator]

[ If we're going to follow the Twins' model, as has been suggested, shouldn't we either stand pat or make a really minor move at the deadline? ]

 

On the flip side, there's the A's model:

 

1) Make deadline trades for potential type-A free agents, giving up prospects that you think might be overrated by other teams.

2) Let the free agents walk, getting a slew of draft picks.

3) Repeat

 

That IS the model I like best, but I'm not sure that Inman still wasn't a top-tier guy.

[mikerollins]

Rave reviews on the Linebrink trade on ESPN2 right now. Someone from the New York Post talking about how Linebrink is bar-none the best setup man in the game. It's a commitment to winning now. Said they gave up some decent arms to get him, but was a move they had to make. Said that Padres players were stunned and confused as to why management would trade away their setup man in the middle of a pennant race.

[Bruce Ciskie]

Quote:

---

?Incomprehensible,? was Trevor Hoffman's reaction. ?Four other teams in the National League West are awfully excited. I probably need to take a day before I say something about this because I'm going to say something stupid.?

 

?You have to trust your front office when you are in the middle of a playoff run,? Jake Peavy said. ?But, man, to trade away your setup man . . . what kind of a message are we sending here??

 

Said David Wells: ?I know Scott has had some rough times recently. But he's one of the premier guys in the league. Scott Linebrink is a pitcher of magnitude. He's also one of the best people you'd ever want to know . . . a great friend and a teammate.

 

?To take a hit like this . . . they must have different reasons we can't see.?

---

 

www.signonsandiego.com/sp...adres.html

 

Sounds like there are some upset Padre pitchers.

[Team Canada]

but he's getting torched in AA this year

 

 

Sorry Geno, but you're continuing a long line of posters spouting untruths about Inman's performance at AA.

 

 

 

I will say, I absolutely hated the Lee trade at the time, and clearly it worked out pretty well, we would be absolutely screwed without Cordero.

[RU Rah Rah]

Yeah, I was just looking at the article with the quotes from Hoffman, Peavy, and Wells. To me, that indicates a lot. If they really thought Linebrink was losing his stuff, I think the response would be something diplomatic, along the lines of, "Gosh, he's been a great teammate, but we're excited to get some prospects who can help us, eventually." But they're obviously angry, and being pretty open about it. Overall, that article makes me feel a lot better about the trade (although I am not totally reconciled with the idea of losing three prospects, and I still think that the team needed a bat more than another set-up guy).

[xisxisxis]

I read about half of this thread last night and was pleasantly surprised to see the sun come up today considering the general panic yesterday. Scott Linebrink is one of the top middle relievers in baseball and we got him for a bunch of prospects with promise who may never have near the success of Linebrink.

 

If the Brewers long term success is tied to Will Inman than this organization is in much deeper trouble than I or the Chief Cynic ever could imagine. As pointed out, even if we lose Linebrink we still get 2 comp picks that are higher than the draft position of the 3 prospects combined. We've already lost 2 games from a throw-away AAAA pitcher in Balfour. If Linebrink keeps the relief losses to a minimum and we edge out the cubbies or make the wild-card then this was a deal well worth making. As already stated, playoffs can make a huge difference in $ revenue and will definitely help with ticket sales next season allowing Attanasieo to increase the budget. Win Win people.

 

If we're going to follow the Twins' model, as has been suggested, shouldn't we either stand pat or make a really minor move at the deadline?

 

To me, this move signifies a desire to win as much or more than anything the Twins have ever done at the deadline.

 

But the part of the Twins model that's always been so attractive to the organization is still very much in tact - make boatloads of money for the owner.

 

The key to following a model is that you need to realize when your organization differs from the models and you adjust your circumstances to those differences.

 

 

Now if Linebrink could only play corner OF on days he doesn't pitch we might have enough offense to beat the frickin Reds.

[Fatter than Joey]

When you look at the likes of Spurling, Balfour and even an inexperienced Parra, adding a guy like Scott makes me feel more comfortable as a Brewers fan.

 

Why? -- One of those guys is going away when Sheets returns. Another one will probably get removed if/when the Brewers go down to 12 pitchers.

 

I guess I don't feel comfortable about Linebrink getting Spurling's innings. I am sure that Linebrink is better, however, Spurling has done just fine in situations he should pitch in, blowouts or games that have a 4 run lead in the 9th inning. -- I just don't see that translating into more wins.

 

If Sheets is out longer -- then I agree this trade makes more sense.

[gregmag]

A lot of folks have made some very good points about why this trade makes sense. I'm still not convinced, but I appreciate all the smart thoughts.

 

On the point that a lot of people have made, that we wouldn't have had room for Inman anyway: If Inman does turn out to be Yo caliber, or a tick below, we'd have room. Remember, we're on the hook to Suppan for a ton of money; we have to resign Sheets; Cappy is about to get expensive; Bush will get expensive soon; and Parra hasn't shown yet that he can start (although I'm optimistic). Maybe Inman doesn't make it, but if he does, there's no way he's blocked here.

 

Also, I think a lot of folks are dismissing Inman's minor league performance a bit too easily. He isn't Hendrickson; Hendrickson had no fastball. He isn't Eveland; Eveland had conditioning issues. He's a command/makeup monster with decent stuff who had moved quickly through the system and, with the exception of his first couple of AA starts, pitched like a Yo clone. He's a season away from being ready. A guy like that is a lot more valuable than getting to roll the dice on a comp pick.

 

Greg.

[mikerollins]

Quote:

---

Sounds like there are some upset Padre pitchers.

---

 

How can they not be? You are in a pennant race and you trade a guy that has been the premiere set up man in major league baseball for about 4 years. They should be pissed.

 

The Brewers should be excited. They gave up three prospects, which are just that, prospects. By doing so they have solidified the 7th inning of their bullpen, which is huge.

 

The guy has great stuff and is a very dependable middle reliever. If you've ever had him on your fantasy team, you'll know what I'm talking about. The guy is as automatic as they come.

[bucksman4]

If Sheets is out longer -- then I agree this trade makes more sense.

 

And I'll ask you the same question right back -- Why??

 

What does losing Sheets have to do with acquiring one of the best set-up men in all of baseball? Spurling is a mop-up, innings-eater pitcher with less than stellar 'stuff.' We're talking about shoring up the backend of the bullpen and giving us insurance in case Turnbow melts down. Everyone knew that we needed to gain more reliable arms to get us to Coco in the 9th. We have too many pitchers who don't take us beyond the 5th inning of games and I don't know about you, but I sure feel more at ease with Linebrink helping out Wise and Turnbow to get some holds as the 6th, 7th, 8th inning guys if need-be from now until the end.

[Two Fisted Slobber]

Not to single you out, but minor league championships are NOT what the 30 MLB franchises are all about. You either use your farm system to depth to play for the parent club, or you use it to trade for help for the major league club.

 

I could care less whether these potential championships in the bush leagues are won or not. All we should care, is that these A, AA & AAA clubs are feeding us the proper talent.

 

Wow, Geno. I know he didn't use the magic blue font, but I don't see how the sarcasm could be any more obvious. It was definitely one of the best posts of the day.

[SeriesFinale]

Not to single you out, but minor league championships are NOT what the 30 MLB franchises are all about.

 

Maybe we've become too relient on blue font around here...I'm 99% certain he was joking.

 

I'm still scratching my head this morning about this one, regardless of how the Pads' pitchers feel.

[mikerollins]

In 43 appearances, he has been perfect in 33 of them.Of those 10 times he gave up a run, 7 of them were just a single run. I think Padres made a mistake by putting too much stock in his last couple outings when he gave up a 3-run homer to David Wright (who hasnt?) and a 3-run homer to Matt Holiday (who hasn't?). Sandwhiched between those 2 outings was a scoreless outing against Phily. In May and June he pitched scoreless outings in 18 out of 19 appearances and in April and May he went 16 out of 17 scoreless outings. The guy hasn't lost it since April and May, he just made 2 mistakes to Wright and Holliday and the Padres thought they'd get some prospects for him.

[BillScottCanRake]

Of course Inman's only 20, but he's getting torched in AA this year, and there's no guarantee he'll make it to the majors anyway.

 

Inman had two really bad outings, two mediocre (by Inman standards), one good, yet short outing and three very good outings. His first AA game was pitched while going through a bout of mononucleosis.

 <span style="text-decoration:underline">Date OPP W L ERA SV IP H ER BB SO</span> Jun 15 BIR 0 1 20.25 0 2.2 6&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 6 2 2 Jun 20 @TEN 0 1 4.50 0 6.0 4&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 3 0 6 Jun 25 CHA 0 1 31.50 0 2.0 8&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 7 2 4 Jun 30 @WTN 1 0 1.50 0 6.0 1&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 1 4 6 Jul 05 TEN 0 1 4.76 0 5.2 8&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 3 0 7 Jul 11 @CHA 0 0 0.00 0 4.0 4&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 0 5 5 Jul 17 TEN 0 0 3.00 0 6.0 4&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 2 1 7 Jul 23 @JAX 0 1 2.45 0 7.1 3&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 2 2 5 Totals 1 5 5.45 0 39.2 38 24 16 42

 

In his last five starts for the Stars, Inman allowed only eight earned runs over 29 innings (2.48 ERA), walking 12 while striking out 30. His ability to strike out more than one more than one per inning is a good sign, though admittedly over only 30 innings.

 

Now, we'll never know for sure what would have happened the rest of the year, and the requisite small sample note has to be considered.

 

That said, after the expected period of adjustment (which was pretty short, actually), Inman has been pretty solid, which for a 20-year-old in AA is pretty good.

[Invader3K]

One other point I think I made before (or maybe it was in the chat room last night)...look at how many young guys the Brewers have brought up in the past couple years: Fielder, Braun, Weeks, Hardy, Hart, Hall (well, ok, more than a couple years ago), Gallardo...I think it's OK to trade three players who aren't projecting as much upside as Gallardo or maybe even Villanueva, for a chance to win now. You can't hold onto all your chips forever.

 

One other thing I was thinking of, as an aside. I'm optimistic about how Linebrink will pitch for the Brewers. He's a FA after this year. He'll be looking for a nice contract. He's coming in with something to prove, and that's a good thing, folks.