Linebrink acquired for Inman/Garrison/Thatcher

[aracko]

Linebrink is much greater than Balfour. For that reason alone I think we have to like this trade. Brewer fans are not used to being on the short end as a buyer. This is what its like to be in a pennant race in the year 200_.

 

Linebrink has some great stuff.

 

94-97 MPH Fastball, throws a splitter, and a pretty good changeup. He has closer stuff.

[Ennder]

On July 16th which is less than half a month ago Linebrink had a 2.55 ERA, so don't throw around his ERA as the reason to not like him.

[TooLiveBrew]

aracko, actually that linked MadFriars fan forum said he has a curve & a slider, fwiw. Didn't say anything about a splitter, and went as far as one poster stating he needs to add a 'Hoffman-type change' in order to get back to the top of his game. Don't know if you're right or if they are.

 

Their take on Linebrink was very much mixed, a la T-Bow a month or two ago. Sounds like Doug 'bought low', except that he gave up a lot...

[LS Brewer]

Not a big fan of this trade. It is hard to believe that a team has to give up one major league and two major league projected pitchers for a 2 month rental seventh inning guy. Hopefully a move to the Brewers does for Linebrink what Cordero's move did for him last year.

[Mass Haas]

Baseball America's take:

 

www.baseballamerica.com/t...64527.html

[aracko]

msn.foxsports.com/mlb/pla...ryId=85550

 

www12.asphost4free.com/ho...t_rat.html

 

www.nctimes.com/articles/..._24_07.txt

 

For the past 3 1/2 seasons, the 1997 second-round pick of the San Francisco Giants has been a force in the Padres' 'pen. He is 24-9 mark with three saves and a 2.57 ERA in 294 innings. He also has 90 holds since 2004, including a National League-high 36 last year.

 

"Performance-wise he's no different from Trevor (Hoffman)," Padres reliever Cla Meredith said. "He's invaluable to us. Usually a guy (with his stuff) is closing somewhere."

 

Count the current closer as one who knows the score. Even though Linebrink's ERA rose to 3.57 in 2006, his presence meant that Hoffman never pitched more than an inning.

 

That fact isn't lost on Hoffman.

 

"This team, it needs him," Hoffman said. "It's a direct reflection of the way Akinori Otsuka pitched the year before, and Scotty Linebrink has pitched the last three years picking up a large amount of the seventh and eighth inning duties. It's not just the closer. You might get some handsome dollar amount salaries, but it's the work that these guys are doing that people are starting to see. The good teams have more than two guys down in the bullpen that create short games."

 

Hoffman ---- whose $7.5-million option for 2008 kicks in if he finishes 40 games this season ---- figures Linebrink has created a lucrative opportunity for himself if he becomes a free agent after the season. He believes Linebrink's 94-97 mph fastball, changeup, splitter and all those holds could attract quite a few suitors.

 

 

mlb.mlb.com/news/gameday_...p&c_id=mlb

 

 

The biggest out of the game was Hawpe, who'd broken up Chris Young's no-hit bid Tuesday night with an eighth-inning double. Needing a punch out or a popup, Linebrink dropped a wicked two-strike split-fingered fastball that was as big a challenge for Bowen as it was for Hawpe, who swung at air.

 

"That's a pitch I get strikeouts on," Linebrink said, "but it's a tough pitch to handle. In a one-run ballgame, there's no margin for error.

 

"That probably saved my inning -- Rob smothering my split with a guy on third. We've got some great catchers here. To have confidence that he'll go down and get it says a lot about Rob. He doesn't mind getting dirty."

[Dollarbill13]

Cordero actually had slightly better peripherals for the Rangers last year than he did for the Brewers. His post-trade performance seems more like it was luck evening out. I would have imagined that it would have been easier to get a middle relief guy from a team that wasn't in contention, who would have less reason to hold on to a upcoming FA through the end of the season...

[aracko]

I dont think that other report was accurate

[Team Canada]

Greg keeps responding in fine fashion to the posts that irk me, so I won't bother.

 

A couple of points however:

 

1. If you don't yet understand that telling people to "get over it" is not done here, you're not going to last long.

 

2. It's arguable that Linebrink will have little affect in whether the Brewers make the playoffs or not.

 

3. The pro-trade group can't seem to understand the problems that those less enthusiastic have. Namely:

 

- It's not about giving up Inman or not, it's who we're getting back. If this trade is for a Gagne-level stud, I think no one cares. And maybe Linebrink will revert back and everyone will be happy. To quote SeriesFinale: "I'm not averse to them trading Inman for the right guy in the right situation. I just don't think that Linebrink is that guy."

 

- This year is not an all or nothing proposition. It's really possible to want to win this year AND next year (and the year after?). The people complaining about not trading every prospect away to get people for this year would be the same ones complaining in 3 years when the cupboard is bare and we're back below .500 waiting for the next wave of kids to come along.

 

 

Inman was more than likley 2 years away from the majors in the best case scenario.

 

Inman is Gallardo one year removed. If he's not in the majors in 2 years, he either blew his arm out or couldn't hack it in AAA, and we win this trade.

 

 

I can't believe everyone hates this deal. What has Innman, Thratcher proved in the majors? Absoutley nothing,

 

Don't stop there! What had Gallardo or Braun proved in the majors last year? Absolutely nothing! That's a completely meaningless argument.

[Ennder]

Quote:

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Inman is Gallardo one year removed. If he's not in the majors in 2 years, he either blew his arm out or couldn't hack it in AAA, and we win this trade.

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That is a dangerous comment though, Inman doesn't have anywhere near the upside of Gallardo, his body isn't the same and his stuff isn't as good.

[brewers255]

Quote:

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Don't stop there! What had Gallardo or Braun proved in the majors last year? Absolutely nothing! That's a completely meaningless argument.

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Gallarado was on the level of Philip Hughes, Homer Bailey type pitchers. Braun was picked 5th or 6th in the draft where Ryan Zimmerman and Alex Gordon were drafted. Inman is not a top prospect like those two were.

[giffted1]

Quote:

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I can't believe everyone hates this deal. What has Innman, Thratcher proved in the majors? Absoutley nothing,

 

Don't stop there! What had Gallardo or Braun proved in the majors last year? Absolutely nothing! That's a completely meaningless argument.

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Just because we have two prospects that are having success in the majors doesn't change the fact that most prospects aren't going to have success in the majors. Inman could very well take the Hendrickson and Eveland path.

[splitterpfj]

I can understand how anyone could like or dislike this trade, because what we gave up is unknown. It's going to take a while before we know how this one works out, so it's fair to guess on either side.

 

One thing I'd like to point out to those who worry that we'll end up dealing away all of our prospects....Doug said tonight that he wouldn't have done it if it weren't for the compensation picks. Depending on what happens with both Linebrink and Cordero, the Brewers could be picking early and often in next year's draft, I don't see a reason to worry about the farm system emptying out.

 

Wow, trading prospects for veterans, then drafting all day when they walk....welcome to the Milwaukee Red Sox.

[AdvantageSchneider]

Quote:

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Inman is Gallardo one year removed. If he's not in the majors in 2 years, he either blew his arm out or couldn't hack it in AAA, and we win this trade.

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I don't follow the minors as closely as many posters on this site, but it seems like Inman is having trouble hacking it in AA right now. Isn't he like 1-5 with a bad ERA?

 

From a major league prospective, I like this trade. I would assume this trade means we will rarely ever have to see guys like Balfour or even Spurling in a tie ballgame anymore. Hopefully it also gives the boys in the clubhouse a little juice knowing that Doug and Mark A are willing to make moves to go for the title.

[Zycho32]

I guess where you stand on the deal depends largely on where you stand with Will Inman and the fact that Linebrink's current production is not helping the judgement at all.

 

Still, here are my thoughts:

 

Immediate Short-Term: Linebrink pretty much solidifies the bullpen for the Playoff Push. Thinking about it, either he takes the set-up job from Turnbow, or he combines with Wise in the 7th. Either way could be seen as in upgrade for the clutch, but that assumes Linebrink regains his form.

 

This Off-Season: The compensation picks are an okay fallback, but if Linebrink is as good or better as advertised, I think i'd want to keep him around and see if he truly has what it takes to become a closer.

 

2009: By this time we should realistically know what path Will Inman's carreer will take. This is still a sensative point though, because it seems a lot of people were banking on him to be a future arm in the rotation, perhaps right behind Gallardo. Granted, trading him hurts, but we're only working on a vague glimpse into the future.

 

That year will also be an indicator of how deep and strong our starting prospects really are after trading Inman, and whether or not we could afford trading him.

[brewcrew1235]

The brewers might have felt inman hit his peak as a prospect and wanted maximum value from him. Don't forget the brewers will get compensatory picks for this trade if they don't resign.

[Team Canada]

but it seems like Inman is having trouble hacking it in AA right now. Isn't he like 1-5 with a bad ERA?

 

 

Not really, although there have certainly been a number of people claiming such. He had a bad couple first starts, reportedly battling with mono at the time. Since then he's been fine. Not amazing, but fine.

[reillymcshane]

I must say giving up one of our top prospects is a bit shocking at first, but I feel I understand.

 

How good can Inman really be? It's hard to say. I'll be honest, a lot reports about Inman that you read tend to sound like one person wrote a review a long time ago and it's been repeated by everyone on the web. He's short, low 90's fastball, great competitor, doesn't 'project' well, etc. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't know if I trust a lot of the 'reports' about guys like Inman. How many have actually seen him? Talked to guys who've seen him? And not just once or twice - but over a period of time. This makes it hard at times to really judge him. That makes it easy to look at his stats. While I love stats (too much at times), it's not the only way to judge a guy. And while Inman's had awesome stats (prior to his AA stint), I think, more than anything, the deal shows the club sees some red flags about Inman becoming a middle/top of the rotation guy. Perhaps I'm reading too much into the deal, but I doubt they'd deal a guy they felt had big time upside for a reliever.

 

That aside, it might be good for Wil. Petco will be a friendly park for him (assuming he gets there). I think I recall that he was more of a fly ball pitcher - which means Petco will help him out. I'll miss seeing how he would have done for the crew.

 

As for Linebrink, his slipping of his K/BB ratio really worries me, as it's a red flag. Still, he was a having a good season prior to a few weeks ago. Players - like Coco last year with the Rangers - can have rough spell.

 

People point out Linebrink's home/road ERAs, but it should be noted that from 2004-2006 he had a better ERA on the road than at home (2.57 to 2.75). I think saying he's only successful because he pitches at Petco isn't true.

 

If Linebrink can come in, get his game back on track, it's a nice addition. Balfeur and Spurling scare me. The dog days of summer are here, and if Wise or T-Bow or Carlos V or whomever goes down or hit a wall, we are still set in the pen. Cordero, Turnbow, Wise, Carlos V., Linebrink, Shouse - that's pretty impressive, and we'll need it in the long run.

 

My biggest fear with Linebrink is that he's been a work horse - averaging about 75 innings out of the pen the last four years. Perhaps he's just lost it a bit. Still, from what people said, Dougie seems to feel he's still a quality arm, so I'll have to go with that.

 

All in all, getting Linebrink is good. Did we over pay? Yep.

 

Not much I can do about it, so I'm just going to hope this keeps us on top (and like folks said, get those additional draft picks).

[Nader Raider Tim]

My initial reation was, wow, just wow.

 

After thinking about it it seems more palatable when you factor in the impending compensatory picks. I have the utmost faith in Jack Z being able to turn an additional 2 picks into solid prospects. The chances that the Brewers end up drafting a player that ends up being as good or better of a prospect than Inman is quite high, IMHO. Granted Inman was probably 2 years away, when the potetial players picked most likely would be farther away.

 

I also have faith in the Brewers organization to evaluate talent. Inmans stats are jawdropping but so were Ben Hendrickson's. Most of us, knowing what we now know about Ben would be thrilled to have gotten a very good bullpen arm for him. Garrison and Thatcher I know very little about, although I was enthusiasitic about Thatchers future in the Brewers pen.

 

So to conclude im simply going to have to say that im leary of this trade, but am going to have to rely on my faith in the Brewers oranization.

 

 

The really scary part of this trade is that we gave up 3 pitchers...3 pitchers who will be pitching in Petco Park (SD stadium. Even if in reality they only top out as decent pitchers pitching in that stadium might make them look amazing.

[DHonks]

I don't follow the minors as closely as many posters on this site, but it seems like Inman is having trouble hacking it in AA right now. Isn't he like 1-5 with a bad ERA?

 

As TC pointed out, Will was pitching with mono in June. Notice his stats:

 

BREV 4-3 1.72 ERA 78.2 IP 56 H 23 BB 98 K's .198 avg

HUNT 1-5 5.45 ERA 39.2 IP 38 H 16 BB 42 K's .259 avg

 

Huge difference. But we know Will was sick in June, and so let's look at his Huntsville splits. Plus, it's important to factor in that it's about progress and learning, not about sheer domination.

 

June 1-3 9.18 ERA 16.2 IP 19 H 8 BB 18 K's .297 avg

July 0-2 2.74 ERA 23.0 IP 19 H 8 BB 24 K's .229 avg

 

Will had one bad start in Helena. I can't recall any bad starts last year. And what, 2 bad starts this year? I can't say he's struggling in AA anymore, can you? Will likely will be pitching in the majors by next all star break, barring injury.

 

I understand the trade. Where it stings is that we likely are renting a player (and getting draft picks), while in 2009 Thatcher will likely be a key cog in the Padres bullpen, Inman will be in the rotation, and Garrison will be in AAA.

[Ennder]

Quote:

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Will likely will be pitching in the majors by next all star break, barring injury.

 

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maybe he will maybe he won't. He profiles as a 4th or 5th starter and not a stud though, of course that san diego stadium turns scrubs into all stars so I'm sure he'll do fine for them.

[DHonks]

He profiles as a 4th or 5th starter and not a stud though, of course

 

Ender, how do you know that? I'd think he profiles similarly to Cappy...3.50-4.25 ERA. Doesn't that make him a potential #2, based on the scale that was popular last off-season that showed how way off most peoples' expectations of rotation slots are? Wasn't a 4 man at around 5.50 ERA on that scale? He's only a potential 4-man if you're talking about the traditional scouting perceptions. Even then, last year at this time, Gallardo still wasn't a well known name outside of Milwaukee, and sites and experts still had him pegged as a possible #2 or 3-type. It shows how the scouting perceptions can evolve as they get results in the higher minors

[nikegolf6]

Not a huige distinction, but the only reason his K:BB ratio is down is because his K are down. His BB are in line with his career numbers. His HR rate is way up, 1.88/9 which makes me think hes due for some improvement. I think I remember reading in spring training he lost a bunch of weight to try to increase his stamina, that could be a reason for his lower K rate, maybe he's changed the way he's throwing or something. Im just speculating and taking shots in the dark.

[Ennder]

Quote:

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Ender, how do you know that?

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I don't know it, just like I dont' know what any prospect is going to do, but that seems to be what multiple scouts think of him so I'm going to trust them. I'm not even sure I like this deal because I don't trust linebrink but I just don't think Inman was our #1 prospect much less an untouchable that others think he was.

 

I think Garrison and thatcher are fringe major leaguers at best so they don't really matter at all to me. Question is will Inman outproduce Linebrink + a draft pick. I dunno if he will or not but I doubt its going to be a huge win or loss for either side.

[Nader Raider Tim]

Quote:

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He profiles as a 4th or 5th starter and not a stud though, of course

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The scary thing is a 4th or 5th starter, starting in San Diego will probably have a sub-3 era.

 

Honestly, im fine with the deal, im just very worried that Inman will be a solid major leaguer but in that stadium will look significantly better.