A true test for Sheets tonite.

[geothite]

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Its just another start, this idea that an ace stops losing streaks is absurd. An ace goes out and pitches his best and if his team scores more than he allows he gets a win, just like any other pitcher. Its just an ace keeps the game winnable more often than a non ace.

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I guess this is aimed ast me and since any response by me would violate the don't be mean rules around here.

Write Peter Gammons a note or Ueke your thoughts on how stoppers and aces aren't important because they don't minimize losing streaks.

I won't say anything else because I will be accused of being either mean or arrogant.

[DannyKmilw]

I would like to see Sheeter continue to develop that changeup he so seldomly throws, I havent seen him throw it that often and it seems to me that hes stuck on the four-seem two-seem? and curve. I looked back at the MLB Gameday @ Dodgers start and it looked like he only threw it 3 or 4 times out of 87 and to the same batter(Furcal) in two seperate ABs. Anyone know why he would hold back that pitch?

[Ennder]

He says if he's throwing his curve for strikes why should he throw his change which isn't as good.

 

The answer for you Ben is that the change up is easier on your arm and offers a different look.

[mikerollins]

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You might want to count Santana's starts again because it is 11

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espn.com hadn't put yesterday's game on their site yet.

 

I'm sorry. He's made 11. Sheets makes his 11th tonight. Big difference. Not to mention Santana gave up 4 more ER's in this 11th start.

 

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and he hasn't left any with injury no matter how you want to spin it.

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I never said anything about Santana leaving a game injured. I just said Sheets hasn't been injured this year either.

 

I'm not spinning anything! It's facts. I know I know. Facts suck dont they??

 

1. It was 37 Degrees at first pitch

2. It was in Chicago on a rainy day after a 2 hour rain delay

3. It was a groin strain

4. He did want to stay in the game

5. He did pitch 3 scoreless innings

6. Yost and the training staff didnt want him to tweak it in a start in April, so they made him come out.

7. He didn't miss his next start.

 

Think what you want, but I consider Sheets to be an ace. I'm not a huge fan of Sheets or his personality, but I think there is no doubt that he is an ace.

[rluzinski]

It seems as though people really don't process the arguments that other posters make -- they just invent straw men and then rip them down (over and over and over . . .).

 

The guys point is that the result of tonight's game might help determine if Sheets is a true ace. Why would a straw man need to be invented to argue against that? How is his argument being misrepresented anyway? What kind of response would be acceptable to you?

[JenksFan5]

Sheets did a great job tonight bouncing back from that rough first inning. He picked the team up big time and got outs even when the defense let him down repeatedly. Not unbelievable stuff, but a big start nonetheless.

 

Interesting how Sheets has won 3 of his last 4 starts when the Brewers were needing a win. He won the only game against a good Mets lineup, stopped the Phillies and a losing streak to the Crew, could have won against the Dodgers if the offense picked him up at all, and now beats the Braves to end a 6-game skid. I would say that is being an ace, but maybe I should start the "a true ace would win tonight" thread for his next start because he will never be able to do enough for some people.

 

Good game Benny and thank you offense for picking Benny up and getting him the win.

[rluzinski]

Win or not, I'm disappointed that Sheets only struck out 2 and gave up 11 hits in 6 IP. After his last start, I was hoping the old Sheets was back for good.

[JenksFan5]

But this proved that Sheets is a winner Russ. (supposed to be in blue font)

 

I totally agree it was Sheets worst start in his last five, but it was nice to see him be able to overcome baserunners and errors and a bad start and still throw up zeros. That is all. The WHIP for this game was ugly.

[Ennder]

He obviously didn't have the ability to throw his strong curve today but he battled through it and gave us a decent start. Hopefully a few more days rest makes the blister go away completely and lets him throw the good curve again.

[logan82]

Ben Sheets' problem is Ben Sheets. What I mean by that is he has been effective, but he hasn't been the strikeout pitcher we are used to seeing. He is having good starts, but not making opposing hitters look foolish with his big curve like he has in the past.

[logan82]

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I'm not a huge fan of Sheets or his personality

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I find it surprising that somebody wouldn't like Sheets' personality. I guess it is a matter of opinion, but I like his laid back personality. Seems to have fun, but take his pitching very seriously.

I would like to point out Sheets has a multi hit year this year.

[Ennder]

The curve had really come around the 2 starts before his blister came up though and the K's came with it. I'd say this game had way more to do with him not being 100% than with him going back to his 'old ways'.

[stoutdude04]

I would like to point out Sheets has a multi hit year this year.

 

And a 7 year hit streak.

 

In all seriousness, he clearly did not have his best stuff. This could have been a variety of reasons. I was also dissapointed with the 2 k's and 10+ hits, but, he put the team in a position to win after a rough start. I will hope for 6-10 k's next game. If he doesnt and we win, I will still be fine with it.

[Tailgat0r76]

John Kruk just explained how Sheets is the ace. Good to hear, I was worried about his opinion

[hauser42]

In all seriousness, he clearly did not have his best stuff. This could have been a variety of reasons. I was also dissapointed with the 2 k's and 10+ hits, but, he put the team in a position to win after a rough start. I will hope for 6-10 k's next game. If he doesnt and we win, I will still be fine with it.

 

Ball was up in the first but after that he did a fine job. Care less how many Ks he has in each game as long as the team has a chance to win.

[Fatter than Joey]

Win or not, I'm disappointed that Sheets only struck out 2 and gave up 11 hits in 6 IP.

 

I understand but...

 

1.) I am glad Sheets got a W, that has to help him in some fashion. After a brutal 1st inning, he did what he needed to do to keep the Brewers in the game -- and that is what a good pitcher should do. I am not a big W/L guy, but it was good to see Ben get the W, especially after a lot of tough L's or ND's. I didn't think his stuff was magical or particularly nasty though.

 

2.) Did you notice how many times he threw over to 2nd (Andruw Jones I think)? -- and then over to first to keep Smokin' John Smoltz honest? -- I could be reading entirely too much into this, but I got the impression that Sheets was expressing some contempt for his catcher. I think it was Harris that stole 2nd w/o a throw? I am not saying Estrada sucks or that he should have attempted to throw out a base-stealer -- I am saying that I think Sheets may think Estrada sucks -- he just appeared rattled to me.

 

Let's not forget that Sheets took Smoltz out of the game by brilliantly shattering Smoltz's bat in his hand.

[BillScottCanRake]

Win or not, I'm disappointed that Sheets only struck out 2 and gave up 11 hits in 6 IP.

 

I would guess this is the result of less than stellar command within the strike zone and a less than good curve. The command issues are probably related to not following his normal five day routine (he didn't throw a normal side session because of the blister). He threw plenty of strikes, but they weren't located like he'd normally locate them, especially in the first.

 

The curve ball was the pitch that was most affected by the blister. As much as we'd like to see Sheets use his change, he is what he is at this point- a fastball, curve pitcher. When he doesn't have his curve, he's much more hittable, which is what we saw tonight.

 

It wasn't a good outing, but I until he repeats it a few times, I'll attribute it to the blister and his routine getting broken.

[hauser42]

For as much griping I do about Sheets I was impressed last night. He was coming back from a blister that effects how he holds the ball. Start of the game was horrible but he beared down and kept the team in the game without his best stuff.

 

He keeps pitching like this and gives team a chance to win each time out that is great. When was the last time a pitcher striking out 10 batters gaurantee a win??

[homer]

I think Russ is saying is that more often than not if you give up 11 hits in 6 innings without striking many guys out you are getting lucky. Eventually those hits will string together and bite you some place south of your equator.

[hauser42]

I think Russ is saying is that more often than not if you give up 11 hits in 6 innings without striking many guys out you are getting lucky. Eventually those hits will string together and bite you some place south of your equator.

 

Maybe he is a getting some good luck instead of the bad luck he has had in previuos years. I think the blister still had more to do with it than anything.

[Tbadder]

I would never contest Sheet's gumption or his desire. He's a good team player; I love the way he keeps things light.

 

I believe he has the most ability of the starting five, and if he pitches better the Brewers will do better. Do I think Sheets is pitching up to his own standards, no. I think Ben Sheets would agaree with me because he's an upright guy. Do I think many ballplayers would say the same thing just to appear humble, yes.

 

Do I believe that the Brewers have a chance in the playoffs if Sheets pitches the way he has so far this year, no. Are my expectations too high or just wrong, absolutely. That's a lesson I learned from my ex-wife, nuff said.

[bork]

and then over to first to keep Smokin' John Smoltz honest?

 

I figured he was just trying to get Fielder to knock out Smoltz on the tag. Smotlz had to come out the very next inning, so I think it worked. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[RU Rah Rah]

I basically agree that Sheets didn't earn many beauty points last night -- lots of hits, not very many K's, etc. But he gutted it out after that first inning and, as mentioned above, he kept the team in the game.

 

He hasn't been going super-deep into games lately -- the IP for his last 7 starts are 3, 6, 6.1, 6, 7.2, 6.1, and 6. I guess there might be some caution involved w/the hamstring and blister. (And six quality innings is nothing to complain about.)

 

And his ERA+ is now 108 -- better than average, but not crazy-good. I keep waiting for a nice crazy-good stretch a la 2004 . . .

[futurebrewerfather]

Did I hear correctly????

(bare with me because I don't have the exact quote or inning but...)

 

I thought I heard one of the announcers say just before the bottom of the 3rd) that Sheets said in the dugout to the team "If you guys go out and score some runs, I won't let them score again".

 

Now if I wasn't dreaming and really heard that...

 

A- How did the announcers know that? Do they have someone in the dugout feeding them info to talk about?

 

B- Why isn't that being talked about more? I think that's BIG!!

 

C- That tells me Sheets IS an Ace. Has HUGE self confidence! And is a guy the team can rally behind and trust!

 

Did anyone else hear that?? (or was I dreaming??)

[BillScottCanRake]

I think Russ is saying is that more often than not if you give up 11 hits in 6 innings without striking many guys out you are getting lucky. Eventually those hits will string together and bite you some place south of your equator.

 

I agree with that. I don't think anyone is calling Sheets' performance last night good. The thing I wanted to point out is that while Sheets start was not all that good, it didn't follow his more recent four start trend, and given that the blister prevented him from getting in his regular work last week, I am not too concerned about how he pitched last night.

 

In his previous four starts, Sheets was averaging just under 8K per 9 innings and has a WHIP under 1.00. My hope is that is the trend and his start against Atlanta was an aberration due to the blister.