A true test for Sheets tonite.

[bigbrewkahuna]

I can't wait for tonites game,for it should either quiet some of the Sheets doubters ,or bring up more debatet about his #1 ace status.

 

According to many here,a true ace will stop a losing skid.Consistently.Even if he is going against the opposing teams ace.

 

The Brewers have not been winning much lately,and John Smoltz is on the mound for the Braves tonite.

 

So no excuses for Ben tonite.Either he gets a convincing win tonite,or may the jury still be out on his status as a #1 ace.

 

A real crucible in my opinion for Ben tonite .

 

.

[Ennder]

Its just another start, this idea that an ace stops losing streaks is absurd. An ace goes out and pitches his best and if his team scores more than he allows he gets a win, just like any other pitcher. Its just an ace keeps the game winnable more often than a non ace.

[endaround]

Obviously Sheets went out and gave up 2 earned runs against the Dodger he was bad. A true ace would have held them scoreless while going 2-2 with 2 home runs to win the game himself. Ruth could've done that, so why can't Sheets?

[JoeH33]

Sheets ended a 4 game losing streak in Philly just a week or two ago, does that count for anything.

[GAME05]

didn't a lot of us say just this when Sheets beat the Phillies to end a losing streak?

 

it's one thing to expect your ace pitcher to be consistent (which Sheets has done), but another to say that he always has to get the win to end a streak. dude's not superman. And if those are the stipulations to be an ace, than Santana is probably baseball's only one.

 

and how come we can hold Sheets to this standard, but nobody says "Prince Fielder is our best hitter, so he better go 3-4 with a home run to end this losing streak"?

[craigharmann]

I think the bigger test for Sheets is off the blister question, can he come out strong? He came out pretty well after the groin issue, but I think more than the ace question is his health question.

[RyDogg66]

Because if Sheets goes 8 IP with 9 ks and 1 ER and we lose 1-0, he isnt an ace.

[lukevan]

I'm just waiting for the IGT to be filled with these sentiments. By my count, every start so far this year has been a "true test" for Sheets according to a few here on BF.net. One game isn't going to prove anything either way for Sheets, but I sure would like to see Ben dominate tonight.

 

Looking forward to the game (wish it was on TBS again), I believe Smoltz and Sheets both threw dandies against each other late last season at MP, and IIRC, Turnbow blew a tie game or a one run lead?

 

I think that was the day I officially gave up on the Brewers playoffs hopes last season http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[mikerollins]

Quote:

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So no excuses for Ben tonite.Either he gets a convincing win tonite,or may the jury still be out on his status as a #1 ace.

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Right so if Sheets leaves a 0-0 tie in the 8th inning for a pinch-hitter and the Crew loses 1-0...Sheets is clearly not an ace.

 

He just stopped a losing streak in Phily with a great outing. He would have stopped one in LA if the Brewers scored any runs at all.

 

People's expectations for Sheets are ridiculous. All he is paid to do is go out there and pitch 6 or 7 or 8 innings and give his team a chance to win if they score 3 runs. He does that every single frickin' start.

 

I don't know what all this talk about Santana is like he pitches a shutout every outing or something.

 

His last 10 outings:

7 innings; 1 ER

7 innings; 2 ER

6 innings; 2 ER

5 innings; 1 ER

6 innings; 3 ER

7 innings; 4 ER

7 innings 1 ER

7 innings; 4 ER

7 innings; 0 ER

6 innings; 4 ER

 

Sheets' last 10 outings:

6.1 innings; 2 ER

7.2 innings; 2 ER

6 innings; 3 ER

6.1 innings; 2 ER

6 innings; 2 ER

3 innings; 0 ER

7 innings; 2 ER

5 innings; 7 ER

6 innings; 5 ER

9 innings; 1 ER

 

Both pitchers have worked into the 7th inning in about half their starts (Santana 6, Sheets 5).

 

Both pitchers have given up 3 ER's or fewer in ALMOST 80% of their starts (Sheets 8, Santana 7).

 

I don't really see where the big difference in in these 2 players.

 

They both have an ERA of around 3.50 (Sheets: 3.75, Santana 3.21), while Sheets had his altered by the very bad start against St. Louis or they'd be virtually the same.

 

I'm not saying Sheets is Santana, but I am saying that Santana isn't nearly as "automatic" as people around here seem to think. In fact, Sheets has given his team a better chance to win (3 ER's or less) more times than Santana has )8 to 7).

[ccbrew]

I have a difficult time understanding the "are you a true ace?" test as well. What is Sheets supposed to differently tonight than in any other game in which he pitches in order to stop this streak? Conversely, if he has some sort of mystical power that allows him to put an end to losing streaks, why wouldn't he do the same when the team is on a 6 game winning streak?

 

If there ever was to be a true 'test' for an ace it would be a measure of his consistency - pitching well regardless of the circumstances (home/away, weather, winning/losing streak).

[Brian the Automator]

[ So no excuses for Ben tonite.Either he gets a convincing win tonite,or may the jury still be out on his status as a #1 ace. ]

 

I apologize if I sound like a broken record, but what bearing on anything does the status of "ace" have? If fans proclaim Capuano as the "ace", does it change anything on the field?

[Mike2k33]

This is about the 3rd or 4th Sheets start in a row that's apparently life or death for Ben and the Brewers as a whole.

 

This is a great place for debate and discussion, but it gets so annoying when this team has a rough stretch and every other post is a "Season's over" overreaction. I seriously do not come here after losses. It's just too annoying and frustrating.

[RU Rah Rah]

These Sheets threads are becoming as contentious as the TGJ threads. It seems as though people really don't process the arguments that other posters make -- they just invent straw men and then rip them down (over and over and over . . .).

 

I will say that I have high expectations for Sheets -- because he's good. And I have a feeling he's going to rise to the challenge tonight because of the losing streak, and because he's facing Smoltz.

 

Whether or not the Brewers win the game, of course, is going to depend in part on the offense. They gotta score some runs.

[iluvlamp]

I won't say it's a test of his "ace" status, whatever that means. I am fearful that he won't be throwing as many curveballs tonight so as to not reinjure his finger. If he has to pound meat all night that may not be good.

[hauser42]

Whether or not the Brewers win the game, of course, is going to depend in part on the offense. They gotta score some runs.

 

Offense will be the key to them winning the game tonight.

 

 

Sheets can set the tone early by getting through the first couple of innings and let the bats scrounge up some runs against Smoltz.

[EinhornIsFinkle]

Quote:

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I'm not saying Sheets is Santana, but I am saying that Santana isn't nearly as "automatic" as people around here seem to think. In fact, Sheets has given his team a better chance to win (3 ER's or less) more times than Santana has )8 to 7).

---

 

Except everyone in Minneosota is wondering why Santana has been so bad this season. Everyone is also assuming that he is having another slow start. Check out his career numbers in June through the end of the season. Also, Santana is pitching every 5 days unlike Sheets and hasn't left any starts early due to injury either. On top of that Santana pitches in the American League.

[bork]

Sheets had the only 2 wins on the East coast road trip, for what it's worth.

[Team Canada]

By my count, every start so far this year has been a "true test" for Sheets according to a few here on BF.net.

 

 

No kidding.

[GAME05]

Because if Sheets goes 8 IP with 9 ks and 1 ER and we lose 1-0, he isnt an ace.

 

what if Sheets gives up 8 runs in 5 innings but we win 10-8?

[Lil Dummy]

Great post, Rah Rah. These threads have gotten to the point where they write themselves. Nobody is even listening to anybody else (which would be too bad, if anyone else had anything new to say).

 

For those Badger fans on the board, the "Is Sheets an Ace?" debate is the equivalent of Bollinger vs. Sorgi, with the added gloomy knowledge that Sheets isn't graduating this fall.

[mikerollins]

Quote:

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Also, Santana is pitching every 5 days unlike Sheets and hasn't left any starts early due to injury either.

---

 

Sheets has not missed a start this year. He will make his 11th tonight. Santana has made 10.

 

Sheets left a frickin game with a sore groin after sitting for 2 hours and 30 minutes waiting for it to stop raining on a 35 degree day in Chicago. He wanted to keep pitching, Yost and the medical staff said no. He did NOT miss his next start.

 

So what? He left a game after 3 innings (against his will) in April. He has not missed a start. He's pitched every 5 days just like Santana.

 

Some people have a preconceived notion that Sheets misses starts that he actually doesn't because he got hurt at the end of the 2005 season and didn't heal until the middle of 2006. It's border-line crazy.

[bucksman4]

Because if Sheets goes 8 IP with 9 ks and 1 ER and we lose 1-0, he isnt an ace.

 

Let's not be sarcastically unrealistic here. When people speak of an ace "stopping a losing streak" it means (to me at least) that he will keep the ball club in the game for the entire duration of the game (much like Capuano did yesterday).

 

If Sheets had the type of game you posted above, no one would fault him for losing the game, much like we did not fault Cappy in his outing yesterday.

 

Now, if Sheets goes out in the first inning and gives up 3-4 runs tonight, we'd have a legitimate gripe.

[EinhornIsFinkle]

Quote:

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Sheets has not missed a start this year. He will make his 11th tonight. Santana has made 10.

---

 

You might want to count Santana's starts again because it is 11 and he hasn't left any with injury no matter how you want to spin it.

 

Santana hasn't given up more then 4 runs this year and all the talk in the Twin Cities is about how poor he is pitching so.....

 

Also, just a general comment I think you are OBSESSED with comparing Sheets and Santana because I've seen it on about 10 threads.

 

One last thing he missed a start Sunday (or yesterday).

[rotoherb]

even if he does give up 3-4 runs in the first inning, what kind of gripe can people have? Here are his last seven starts:

 

vsHOU 7.0 IP, 2ER

@CHC 3.0 IP, 0ER (pulled groin game)

vsSTL 6.0 IP, 2 ER

vsPIT 6.1 IP, 2 ER

@NYM 6.0 IP, 3ER

@PHI 7.2 IP, 2ER

@LAD 6.1 2ER

 

Three times already during this losing stretch he's come out and provided them with a chance to win, but people can have a legitimate gripe if he doesn't go 4-for-4 in that regard? Is he allowed to ever have an off game?

[Ennder]

Quote:

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One last thing he missed a start Sunday (or yesterday).

---

 

He had a start pushed back 1 day, that is not missing a start.

 

You are really stretching things if you are trying to say that injuries have stopped Sheets from pitching like an ace this year. He's missed half of one game as a precaution because of weather.