Pirates Fans to Stage In-game Walkout

[PeaveyFury]

I don't recall anywhere in the Declaration of Independence, Constitution, or Bill of Rights where it garunteed the right to a winning sports franchise.

 

No, but there is the Right to Peaceably Assemble/Protest, which is what these people were doing, and why they have every right to do what they did, not just "Support their team and shut up."

[whizkid]

You had the right to vote no as a tax payer, once the decision was made, you had no more rights, that's democracy. The stadium district represents you, the elected officials represent you, you have no power or leverage with any sports franchise. You either choose to support them, or you don't. I don't want to get into a sidebar arguement about entitlement, but fans aren't entitled to anything more than a GM's best effort. How you spend your money and time is entirely up to you.

 

No, that's not democracy. Once the vote in a normal election is over you still have the right to write or call your alderman, congressman, senator, even the president to voice objections to policies. You also have the right to lawfully assemble to voice objections. Same with public funding decisions.

 

Regarding corporations, people have the right to protest, picket, boycott, whatever to voice displeasure with a corporations policies. It's not a sense of entitlement, it's being able to voice your opinion. Maybe you don't live in the US.http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

As for the Pirates, one thing DM has been willing to do is not worrying about fan reaction to trades etc. when trying to improve the team. The Pirates overpaid to sign the popular Jack Wilson. DM was willing to trade Richie, Pods, Carlos when they were popular, not overpay for them and get something for them without caring about the reaction of talk radio and the masses of fans saying they were cheap etc.

 

The Brewers have been somewhat lucky the way guys have panned out particularly the non first round guys like JJ, Corey, Bill Hall, Yo. But I think DM has just been more willing to be patient and stick to the only plan small market teams can have and not spend money on band-aid solutions to improve 70 win teams.

[tomwopat]

The fact that they received media coverage and lots of other coverage (like this thread) makes their walkout a success on some level in my book.

[TheCrew07]

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No, but there is the Right to Peaceably Assemble/Protest, which is what these people were doing, and why they have every right to do what they did, not just "Support their team and shut up

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Where did I say anything contrary? The conversation was regarding a fan's "right" to a winning baseball team. Fans have the "right" to have any opinion or think anything that they want. However, they don't run the franchise, and they don't really have a say. There are people up here in GB that complain about the funding for the stadium every time the Packers lose. As if somehow because they voted no and have to pay the tax anyway it entitles them to be garunteed of a winning team.

 

The Seligs did hire Melvin and Jack Z did they not? It's not like Mark A bought the team, spent a ton of money, and suddenly the Brewers are winning.

 

I find the notion that the Pirates don't have a plan foolish at best. Every business has a plan, sometimes they just don't work out. You really think the people running the franchise are trying to lose, ensuring they'll be out of a job? They have taken the exact same approach as the Brewers they just haven't been fortunate to get the same results, and for a long time the selling thing wasn't working for the Brewers either. Even the LaRoche move which seemed like a no brainer over the winter hasn't worked out well for them to this point, though he had a nice game last night.

 

I can empathize with all the losing being a Brewer fan, but I wasn't one of the people who constantly whined and complained about it either.

[PeaveyFury]

I find the notion that the Pirates don't have a plan foolish at best. Every business has a plan, sometimes they just don't work out. You really think the people running the franchise are trying to lose, ensuring they'll be out of a job?

 

I strongly doubt that anyone is claiming their trying to lose. But I do think its fair to say that some teams/GM's don't actually have a laid-out plan. The Devil Rays don't seem to have a clue what they want to do, and the Steve Phillips-led Mets were another great example. Dean Taylor's Brewers were a pretty good example of doing one thing to fit a plan on one day, then doing something totally different the next.

There are people up here in GB that complain about the funding for the stadium every time the Packers lose. As if somehow because they voted no and have to pay the tax anyway it entitles them to be garunteed of a winning team.

 

The Packers are a completely different monster in such an argument, because the fan involvement probably goes passed just being fans, considering that a chunk of them actually own the franchise.

They have taken the exact same approach as the Brewers they just haven't been fortunate to get the same results, and for a long time the selling thing wasn't working for the Brewers either.

 

No, they really haven't had the same approach. The Pirates have had high draft picks, but they never seemed to actually commit the resources to scout and develop those guys. Melvin was shrewd in picking up guys off the waiver wire/scrap heap like Pods, Davis, Kolb, etc and giving them a chance to shine, the Pirates signed washed up guys like Derek Bell, Matt Lawton, Benito Santiago, and Jose Mesa to multi-year contracts. The Brewers locked up their good young-ish players like Sheets/Jenkins to nice long-term deals, the Pirates locked up Jack Wilson. The Brewers made shrewd trades when they traded away their big time players like Sexson, Overbay, Pods, Lee, etc in getting unproven yet major-league ready players, or players that no longer fit into their roles with their current team. The Pirates got a horrible Arthur Rhodes and incredibly mediocre Mark Redman for Jason Kendall, ie, established Major Leaguers that were never that great to begin with. The Giles trade was of a completely different approach, thus again leading people to wonder what their plan actually is/was.

 

So I'm really not seeing how the Pirates' approach was anything like the Brewers at all.

[SheetsCyYoung04]

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What trade the Pirates made has come close to the same level of production?

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To be fair the Brain Giles trade would have been incredibally good if Perez hadnt had a breakdown. They literally acquired a 22 year old left hander with a sub 3 era and a sub 1 WHIP and a .900+ OPS bat. A rotation of Perez, Bullington, VanBenschoten, Burnett, and Duke would have been darn good right now had those players lived up to their potential.

[Invader3K]

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However, they don't run the franchise, and they don't really have a say.

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Fans definitely can and should have a say. If people don't like a product, they can and should have the ability to put pressure on the business to change their product or business practices. That's as American as it gets. No, the fans aren't the ones making the decisions, and I don't think anyone here is pretending they should be. However, when a team has been losing for 15 years, even after having a new stadium built, and is showing no signs of turning things around, fans should be speaking up about it. The ownership shouldn't get a free pass because they aren't "trying to lose."