New Dir of Public Relations: brewerjamie15

[gregmag]

Thanks for the discussion, guys. I have no doubt about the good intentions behind the decision, and I also agree that Don made a very bad (although I'm sure not malicious) call when he used "BF.net" in his chat I.D., let alone in asking very provocative questions. You guys' assessment of the state of the thread, while differing from mine, is at least as valid as mine, and madbad, you make an excellent point that starting a new thread would be appropriate in this situation.

 

The one point you made with which I have to take issue is the one about "what if Doug Melvin saw insulting content in a thread?" First of all, we have to distinguish the JS chat from the forum. It's one thing to go out in public and slam somebody; it's another thing to do it here, in a context specifically designed for vigorous debate, even though, as you note, anyone can access that debate. Second, what if I posted this in a forum thread:

 

"Doug Melvin sucks as a GM. What the hell is he thinking? Anybody with an ounce of sense would know that high school pitchers are terrible draft risks, and trading Javier Valentin for a bag of balls three years ago opened a gaping hole at catcher that a real talent evaluator would have known was filled. We need somebody competent to run this team!"

 

For the record, I love DM, although I used my two biggest (only?) beefs with his decisions to make the illustration vivid. Anyway, if DM saw that in one of our threads, he might well take offense, and he might think badly of the site as a whole (although that would clearly be unfair, so hopefully he wouldn't). But the post, while one-sided and larded with a couple of unneeded insults, is basically substantive. That's the danger I'm saying we have to live with.

 

Sorry if I'm hammering the point. I'll stop now. Once again, thanks to jamie and madbad for the very thoughtful discussion and for being such dedicated stewards of a great site.

 

Greg.

[madbad2000]

Greg,

 

You make good points once again, but I would argue that your Doug Melvin example is a little off base. If Doug reads BF.net message boards, he should realize that people who make comments like your example are simply users stating their opinion. When a question like Don's shows up with a BF.net moniker, then that reflects on this whole site. First and foremost starting with Brian and working down through all staff and even users too. It hurts our credibility immensely. We strive to be on good terms with everyone who has a stake in the Milwaukee Brewers. Without our very important contacts, this site would not be as great as it currently is. It's also important to keep in mind that BF.net would not be great without the quality of posters we have here and we're not trying to scare away anyone from posting because of possible repercussions.

 

We also need to keep in mind that people like Doug Melvin and even Drew Olsen are public figures. They are open to criticism and I'm sure they receive it daily. So seeing a statement like your example is nothing new to these guys. What needs to be done is to do it properly. I hope everyone can see the difference between Greg's example and asking a man flat out if he smokes opium.

 

All I ask is that people try to use respect when posting and to keep their opinions their own. We're not saying there can't be any negative feelings/ideas on this site. Something about do unto others...

[gregmag]

Yes, of course you're right. I guess I misunderstood your earlier point as being about the forum rather than the chat. Part of what's strange about this situation is that the decision to lock the thread seems to have had less to do with the thread itself and more to do with actual or potential fallout from the chat. At that level, my complaint is pretty narrow: I don't see the bad chat mojo as a good reason to lock a thread on the forum. But whether or not it was a good reason, this was a weird combination of events that isn't likely to recur.

 

On a related point, kudos to Jamie for starting the "how do you like our press guys" thread. That absolutely answers and obviates the concerns I've expressed here. Again, I greatly appreciate the mods' openness to discussing and considering this issue.

 

Greg.

[temke]

wouldnt it be interesting if we had to lock another thread where a previously locked thread is being discussed?!?

[don1481]

Truth be told, Drew could have done the traditional "avoid, avoid, avoid" tactic he does on harder questions. But he didn't. So, like the Haudricourt chat on BA from a few years ago, where Tom exploded at someone for questioning his credibility, he decided to answer it in an incredibly out-of-line way.

 

Drew chooses what questions he does and does not answer. Bottom line. Yes, I could have been more tactful. Yes, I could have come up with a better location. But that does not change the issue of Drew and professionalism. Quite frankly, if I was Gary Howard and I read Drew Olson's chat, I'd have a long talk with him. Those sorts of responses are, at best, unacceptable and at worst, a fireable offense.

 

Did I ask Drew anything about opium? Absolutely not. And quite frankly, madbad and others, I'm offended that it was even implied. Someone obviously *did* and sorry if I'm suspect #1 but... others *have* talked about Drew's opium habit on this site in the past. I just thought it was funny that Drew even mentioned it in a chat... further exemplifying his lack of professionalism.

[Silicon Based Lifeform]

I am with Greg 100%, not that we really should be taking sides, but in the context that he represents many concerns that I also share. While I'm newer to the site than Greg, I was also upset at the closing of the thread for the exact reasons Greg so eliquently discussed. I also realize the mods jobs are hard (I've made a few mistakes myself that have lead to some nasty exchanges and hopefully I've learned from my mistakes.)

 

Quote:

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The thread was to the point of providing no substantial dialogue/information and was closed.

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To me, that's a good reason for locking a thread.

 

I disagree strongly. The problem is that the decision as to what is not substantial dialogue/information is extremely subjective. I've found tens of threads to provide absolutely no substantial or informative dialogue. Heck 95% of the Trade Rumors forum is not substantial or informative. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif If you use that criteria I think you will find more cases of posters questioning such criteria and more claims that Brewerfan.net is elitist. I agree with having set standards on dialogue, and civility, and politics, because those can be pretty well differentiated (while there has been some grey area for civility and politics) for the most part, but adding a very subjective criteria such as substantial and informative dialogue is gonna open a whole can of worms.

 

Thanks for the great job all those associated with BF.net do to make the forums and the site the best place to learn and discuss the Brewers.

[tomwopat]

Quote:

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I think the criteria for a MLB press pass is you have to have people paying for your product. That's how BP gets them, now that they have premium content.

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How do the public access people get in then?

[MadisonBrewerBlue]

When is he going to find time to torment Buddy the Squirel. Congrats

[DuWayne Steurer]

Here's my take.

 

 

Drew's a public figure. He's very open to criticism. He knows this as well as anyone. When he chose to disclose the fact that someone asked if he did opium, HE's the one he acted unprofessionally. Those are the sort of questions he could very easily have chosen to ignore, just like all the tough questions he usually dodges around.

 

I'm absolutely willing to bet "do you smoke opium" is no sillier than handfuls of questions he gets in every chat.

 

As far as the "eye of the Tiger" thing, there's absolutely no reason he shouldn't be called out on that. That article was horse crap, plain and simple.

 

If Drew doesn't like being in the public eye, he doesn't have to be a sportswriter.

 

 

EDIT:

 

I just noticed this comment...

 

The thread was to the point of providing no substantial dialogue/information and was closed.

 

 

That could be said of about 90% of the threads here. EVERY thread here usually runs it's course to the point where things are just getting re-said, because everyone has to have the last word. Should those be locked as well?

[dadofandrew]

I thought Drew was very unprofessional towards the end. Heck, he can quit at any time, and only has to answer the questions he wants. Like Tom H, I think both have some sort of very inflated view of themselves, "hey, I'm a sportswriter, how dare you question me".

 

Considering the halfhearted work we get from them, a pair of writers who don't seem to do a bit more than Adam M does by himself, or for that matter, what Batman does when he has the free time, I find that especially odd.

 

The work that Tom (?) did last year in Nashville is exactly what I would like to see, and truthfully, should see from 2 beat writers covering the same team. Until we see that with regularity (I do think Tom's "notes" columns on Sunday have improved the past couple months), it's tough to not be disappointed with their results.

[madbad2000]

I think the thing with the substantive/informative comment wasn't to be taken 100% literally. A better comment could have been new and debatable. How does that sound? Any way you slice it, that thread was going to go downhill faster then Bode Miller. The message boards provide people of all backgrounds an opportunity to express their ideas and to debate them. To most they are not informative, but that is why they are here. The whole point of the message boards is dialogue and 100 people all chiming in that Drew Olsen sucks does nothing for anyone. Those chiming in don't look any better, Drew Olsen doesn't look any better and quite frankly any worse and those reading have wasted x amount of time. A nice thing to remember is that Brian pays for most of this site out of his pocket. We accept donations to help defray the costs of the message boards, but the cost is quite high. We pay by per page view and something of that sort really does waste money. Locking of that thread didn't shoot down anyone's ideas/thoughts, nothing was edited/cut out. All that was ended was a snowball effect of a bad thread. As I suggested earlier, if people wanted to debate the thread...start a new one. Looking outside the box I don't see Jamie's actions as too brash. I think most look at this as an almost Nazi-ish tactic and believe me...Brewerfan.net is not going to become a totalitarian, one-sided website. Life does move on...pitchers and catchers have reported.

[don1481]

Quote:

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A nice thing to remember is that Brian pays for most of this site out of his pocket. We accept donations to help defray the costs of the message boards, but the cost is quite high. We pay by per page view and something of that sort really does waste money.

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Unless, of course, you're an ezBoard supporter... then it doesn't cost Brian money. Correct?

 

Which reminds me, Mad, where's your ezBoard supporter logo? I'm not trying to single you out but... you are the one pointing out how expensive this site is for Brian... and the easiest way to reduce his costs is to become an ezBoard supporter. It's only $12/year.

 

And to quote Brian:

 

Quote:

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i highly encourage everyone who views the site with some frequency to sign up as a ezSupporter. It's $12 a year, and with it your page views do not count against Brewerfan.net's total.

 

If you're a regular lurker, i'd also encourage you to sign up for an account and pay the $12, as your totals count against our price as well.

 

Our current renewal prices is $758 for 6 months. That means a year's renewal will probably be around $1100 I think. If you haven't registered as an ezSupporter yet and you're a very regular reader, your money is far better spent on registering than paying a donation when that time comes up...

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[pogokat]

Unless, of course, you're an ezBoard supporter... then it doesn't cost Brian money. Correct?

 

first off, you are very wrong.

 

Brian pays for everything that is brewerfan.net...we pay for the message boards...he pays for the rets...servers, computers, etc...so you are just plain wrong.

 

secondly, don't dare call people out on weather they are ezsupporters are not...what is the point of that???

 

this is insanely immature.

[don1481]

Quote:

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first off, you are very wrong... we pay for the message boards...he pays for the rets...servers, computers, etc...so you are just plain wrong.

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Really? Page views *do* count against what Brian pays. They actually count a lot in the grand scheme of things.

 

Again, I quote:

 

Quote:

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i highly encourage everyone who views the site with some frequency to sign up as a ezSupporter. It's $12 a year, and with it your page views do not count against Brewerfan.net's total.

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As far as the servers and whatnot go, as someone in the IT industry I can tell you that a reasonable price for server space, domain registration, etc is only a FRACTION of the total cost.

 

Quote:

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secondly, don't dare call people out on weather they are ezsupporters are not...what is the point of that???

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The point is: If one's going to say how high costs are, and a large portion of costs are directly associated with the message board side of operations, then the EASIEST way to alleviate Brian's issues is to become an ezBoard member. In MadBad's post, it seemed like Mad was just complaining about how people aren't donating. As Ghandi once said, "we are the change we wish to see in others." Therefore, as the director of minor league ops, Mad should be an ezBoard supporter. And should show it off like everyone else.

[ja002h]

Good gravy.

 

Don, perhaps you first might want to see if Madbad just doesn't have his icon enabled.

[don1481]

Quote:

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Don, perhaps you first might want to see if Madbad just doesn't have his icon enabled.

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Hence my very last sentence in my previous post "And show it off proudly" (to paraphrase). He's a mod, a VISIBLE poster, and should be showing it off to set an example IMO. Just like you have yours visible.

 

Especially if he's going to be implying about costs of the board, people like me could ask "well, what's he doing to help out? He's wasting more $ by posting!" IF he has it visible, then that issue is moot.

[pogokat]

don, i seriously suggest you think about what you post before you post it...i believe sometimes you get carried away...

 

as for this subject, it needs to be dropped...and really shouldnt have been brought up in the first case

[Brian the Automator]

Site registration: $12/year

Server costs (main site): $50/month

Server costs (fan forum): ~$100-120/month

 

Blood pressure medication from dealing with people who make life difficult for me: TBD

 

Don, don't dig a deeper hole. You really embarassed the site during the chat. Just drop it.

[madbad2000]

Wow Drama Don, right again as usual.

 

In the future, before you call people out in "public" like this, please attempt to get your facts correct. So my icon wasn't enabled. Does that mean I don't support the site. If you really want to get into costs and how much each has spent to support the site I'm sure Brian could come up with a list of the top donors. I'm 100% positive you'd be top 5 correct?

 

While it seems kind of like a childish statement, remember that when you point your finger at others there are 4 more pointing back at you.

 

Covering the costs of this site are something that Brian doesn't really push. Everyone here is thankful for what he does and how much time he spends on this site. I encourage anyone interested to chip in a few bucks if they enjoy the site. Contact any staff member or moderator and they'll direct you to the proper place to help out.

 

Don, if you have a problem with a poster in particular like you seem to have with me and my comments...please take it private with a private message or email. Mine is mclifton@brewerfan.net if interested.

 

Michael

[Katuluu]

Therefore, as the director of minor league ops, Mad should be an ezBoard supporter. And should show it off like everyone else.

 

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0394800893.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

[hawing]

I thought this thread was for griping about brewerjamie15. I don't understand you people anymore.

 

Edit: I'm not aiming to pick on the previous tangent that actually involved Jamie, and appears to be resolved. But if madbad must be picked on, can't it be in a separate thread? (or, like he suggested, a private one?)

[brewerjamie15]

I thought this thread was for griping about brewerjamie15. (hawing)

 

Thanks hawing, I appreciate it. lol

 

edit: actually, if you take a look at this thread from top to bottom it goes a bit like this:

Jamie is the new PR guy

Congrats

How do we get a media pass?

Why was a thread closed?

some talk about squirrels

madbad2000 needs to get ez supporter

he has it, was not turned on

 

It'd be rather appropriate if this puppy were shut down don't ya think?

 

http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/happy.gif

[bork]

This thread is only missing one thing before getting locked.

 

http://www.savethelemur.org/images/ruffed-lemurs-small.jpg

[berniebrewer4life]

This kind of stuff just makes me laugh.

[Ralph Wiggum]

Don, can't you just apologize for being a jerk so everyone can move on?