When will Sal Frelick be called up?

[Brock Beauchamp]

3 minutes ago, homer said:

I agree. GM's get roasted in the moment because it appears like it's hurting your team but no one says anything X years down the line when the team has an extra year of control.

I wish owners and players would simply agree on service time being capped at something like 100 days for a season. If a player is on an MLB roster for 100 days, they get 1.0 years of service time. If they're on a roster for 160 days, they get 1.0 years of service time.

That renders service time manipulation basically useless unless the team wants to keep a guy down for half a season. The current system is far too easy to game without really being punished by fielding a sub-par product.

[Brewcrew82]

16 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

I'm generally okay with service time manipulation but start becoming irritated if it bleeds into super two manipulation.

I totally get wanting that extra year of control but keeping a guy down just to save a few bucks, I can't get behind that.

I think the Braves have shown the Brewers the way here. Bring guys up when they're ready and quickly sign them to team-friendly extensions once they've demonstrated that they can perform at the major league level. Then service time considerations become irrelevant. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

2 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

I think the Braves have shown the Brewers the way here. Bring guys up when they're ready and quickly sign them to team-friendly extensions once they've demonstrated that they can perform at the major league level. Then service time considerations become irrelevant. 

I agree. Everybody wins in those situations. It's one of the rare occasions where players get paid, owners save money, and fans get to experience home-grown talent for a long time. I wish more MLB teams took that approach.

How nice would it have been to throw $70m at Burnes three years ago and get to see him pitch through 2026 or so? We would have avoided all the messiness of the past two seasons of Burnes being frustrated and fans being irritated at ownership.

[MVP2110]

5 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

I think the Braves have shown the Brewers the way here. Bring guys up when they're ready and quickly sign them to team-friendly extensions once they've demonstrated that they can perform at the major league level. Then service time considerations become irrelevant. 

Absolutely but it does also need to be pointed out it's a two way street, guys have to want to extend and delay their Free Agency. With Burnes I think the Brewers got a little unlucky because of his disaster of a 2019 season, people would have flipped if they would have extended him after that. And with Adames by the time he broke out with the Brewers he was only 3 years from Free agency, Woodruff they certainly could have extended early on though but maybe he didn't want to. I am hopeful with guys like Frelick, Chourio, and a few others that maybe they'll get some extensions done

[KeithStone53151]

11 hours ago, MVP2110 said:

He played in 46 games in AAA last year, I agree he's probably ready for the Major Leagues but I think there is a very real reason to want to see him in AAA for a month regardless of service time reasons

I've never liked when people try to make an argument this way, trying to minimize his readiness with one small piece of information. Many guys get to mlb with little to no time in AAA. He's a first round pick, advanced college bat with over 150 milb games in which he's put up really solid numbers at every stop. Ignoring service time, it's questionable whether the Brewers will be better from April through June with having Naquin vs Frelick. There's fair arguments both ways. Beyond that, both Frelick and the Brewers are without question better off if Frelick were to get those MLB at bats over Naquin. Frelick will improve seeing MLB pitchers vs AAA pitchers and be better for it, which is better for both him and the Brewers in 2022 and in the future. A team like the Brewers can't block top prospects with journeyman and inhibit their ability to succeed(see Keston Hiura). That would be fine at 1b or 3b this year, or bringing in a guy like Naquin as a PH/bench bat and insurance. The priority needs to be the young guys. There's nothing anyone on this board can point to as a reason to keep Frelick in AAA other than service time.

[wibadgers23]

13 minutes ago, KeithStone53151 said:

I've never liked when people try to make an argument this way, trying to minimize his readiness with one small piece of information. Many guys get to mlb with little to no time in AAA.

Couldn't agree more.  AAA is a pretty short stint for most top prospects.  Braun played 34 games in AAA.  Heck, Mitchell only played 20 games in AAA last year and he appears to be slated for an OD roster spot.  Also, it's not like Frelick struggled in those 46 games.  He put up very good numbers.  

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

24 minutes ago, KeithStone53151 said:

A team like the Brewers can't block top prospects with journeyman and inhibit their ability to succeed(see Keston Hiura). 

Hiura made his MLB debut as a 22-year-old after only 57 AAA games and approximately 200 ABs. How were they inhibiting his ability to succeed? I'd argue that Keston himself has more so inhibited that since his encouraging debut.

[KeithStone53151]

32 minutes ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

Hiura made his MLB debut as a 22-year-old after only 57 AAA games and approximately 200 ABs. How were they inhibiting his ability to succeed? I'd argue that Keston himself has more so inhibited that since his encouraging debut.

Last year he had sporadic playing time and mostly against LH pitchers despite being one of the best hitters in baseball against RH pitching most of the year...

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

16 minutes ago, KeithStone53151 said:

Last year he had sporadic playing time and mostly against LH pitchers despite being one of the best hitters in baseball against RH pitching most of the year...

He's also no longer a prospect.

[brewcrewdue80]

1 hour ago, Brewcrew82 said:

I think the Braves have shown the Brewers the way here. Bring guys up when they're ready and quickly sign them to team-friendly extensions once they've demonstrated that they can perform at the major league level. Then service time considerations become irrelevant. 

This is what I keep saying in terms of holding down prospects. If you're in the belief the prospect needs to be held down for the extra year, then you should expect to extend them through a 7year term offer immediately.  Hold them down 2 months to avoid Super 2? After the 2weeks, you're holding the player down 40-45games or more to save money that ought to be earmarked towards a quick extension. You have 3 option years to see some back track on service time. That's really what Super 2 is for when a player starts a full year and see time back tracked to where that season started at 1.+ and doesn't leave that year 1.+ to qualify at 2.+ the following season.

[brewcrewdue80]

5 hours ago, MVP2110 said:

Huh? Not sure who you meant as Ward isn't on the 40 man and you listed Perkins twice

Bref 40man

 

When I posted I had looked at the Baseball Reference 40 man link above. They must have had a mistake as looking now they don't have Ward but they also didn't list Alexander as #41 on 60day IL when I looked.

I goofed on Perkins. Or my phone double posted his name and I didn't catch it. Maybe I meant another player. Interruptions aplenty right now in my life.

[MrTPlush]

2 hours ago, brewcrewdue80 said:

This is what I keep saying in terms of holding down prospects. If you're in the belief the prospect needs to be held down for the extra year, then you should expect to extend them through a 7year term offer immediately.  Hold them down 2 months to avoid Super 2? After the 2weeks, you're holding the player down 40-45games or more to save money that ought to be earmarked towards a quick extension. You have 3 option years to see some back track on service time. That's really what Super 2 is for when a player starts a full year and see time back tracked to where that season started at 1.+ and doesn't leave that year 1.+ to qualify at 2.+ the following season.

The downside of holding a guy down for a few weeks and signing them to a 7 year extension before proving anything is not really even remotely close to similar. Keston proved himself over 300 ABs and he actually isn't very good. 

[damuelle]

I’m still a bit annoyed about last year, when we played McCutchen/Hiura down the stretch instead of allowing Frelick and his 41-game on-base streak (.364 / .436 / .515) to nudge us into the playoffs.

But that’ll just be part of 2014/2022 mistake lore.

I hope our intention is just to keep Frelick down for 15 days. I believe that he can join the MLB squad on April 14th in San Diego and not accrue 172 service days, thus delaying his free agency by a year.

While we can argue that we NEED Frelick on the OD roster, especially with Taylor out, the reality is that Burnes/Woodruff/Peralta/Adames/Yelich/D. Williams should carry us, Naquin has a proven arm (96mph) for right field, and Mitchell is a better center fielder than Frelick.

Promoting Frelick too early, with the intent to option him for 15 days for service time manipulation, could blow up in our face later (e.g. angry players and fans; long-term injury while he still accrues service time; hitting struggles which necessitate burning his first option year).

So April 14th. That’s the day. Unless I’m misunderstanding something fundamentally important.

[Brock Beauchamp]

2 hours ago, brewcrewdue80 said:

Bref 40man

When I posted I had looked at the Baseball Reference 40 man link above. They must have had a mistake as looking now they don't have Ward but they also didn't list Alexander as #41 on 60day IL when I looked.

I goofed on Perkins. Or my phone double posted his name and I didn't catch it. Maybe I meant another player. Interruptions aplenty right now in my life.

Just a tip but we have 40-man and active rosters pulled from MLB so they're always accurate. You can navigate to them using the top right menu, Brewer Resources.

https://brewerfanatic.com/forty-man-roster/