Article: Brewers Win Pyrrhic Victory Over Corbin Burnes in MLB Arbitration Case

[MVP2110]

2 minutes ago, PeterBal said:

Okay, but then that also points to the Braves saying that was untrue and we need him to get back to the World Series. I’m the Brewers case, the Burnes arbitration hearing is essentially them wanting to save a little money until they have to trade him. Also, Burnes is better than Fried - meaning, I guess I could understand it a little more from the Braves standpoint. However, I also gotta think the Braves wouldn’t have let arguably the best SP in MLB go to arbitration if Burnes was on their team.

The Braves have taken Dansby Swanson & Max Fried each to arb twice in the last couple years. They are certainly not afraid to take their best players to arbitration 

[jason21nl]

20 minutes ago, Seth Stohs said:

I can't be the only one who had to look up what "Pyrrhic Victory" meant... right? 

Certainly not. I had to look it up and then return back to this page on how to spell it correctly.   
 

with that being said. I’m less of a Brewers fan today than I was yesterday.  This actually pisses me off.  

[PeterBal]

1 minute ago, MVP2110 said:

The Braves have taken Dansby Swanson & Max Fried each to arb twice in the last couple years. They are certainly not afraid to take their best players to arbitration 

In that line of thinking, I guess the Brewers should take more of their players to arbitration as the Braves have more than zero (and recent) World Series wins.

[MVP2110]

1 minute ago, PeterBal said:

Let me ask this in a different way: in your opinion, should the Brewers have let Burnes go to an arbitration hearing? If you answer yes, then also please answer what the benefit of that hearing does for the Brewers. I’m not sure we’ve read/heard what the “endgame strategy” is for this arbitration hearing.

Without knowing the context of negotiations that's a hard question to answer. 

As explained in the other thread this isn't just Burnes vs the Brewers, it's basically every player vs all 30 MLB clubs. When teams submit their proposals they first have to send them to all 29 other MLB teams before they send it to the player and there is immense pressure not to be the team who sets a new precedent because they precedent ends up costing all 30 clubs millions of dollars in the long run(think compounding interest). All 30 MLB Front Offices work together essentially to keep players salaries down league wide and every player and agent works to raise salaries league wide. It is essentially legal collusion and it was a system initially proposed by the players

[PeterBal]

3 minutes ago, MVP2110 said:

Without knowing the context of negotiations that's a hard question to answer. 

As explained in the other thread this isn't just Burnes vs the Brewers, it's basically every player vs all 30 MLB clubs. When teams submit their proposals they first have to send them to all 29 other MLB teams before they send it to the player and there is immense pressure not to be the team who sets a new precedent because they precedent ends up costing all 30 clubs millions of dollars in the long run(think compounding interest). All 30 MLB Front Offices work together essentially to keep players salaries down league wide and every player and agent works to raise salaries league wide. It is essentially legal collusion and it was a system initially proposed by the players

Appreciate the explanation but it’s kind of a cop out. I think it’s actually okay to be annoyed with the Brewers and their handling of Burnes. Brewers’ front office apologists will not get us playoff series wins or World Series wins. That’s a fact. I think the Brewers messed this up. Plain and simple.

[MVP2110]

2 minutes ago, PeterBal said:

Appreciate the explanation but it’s kind of a cop out. I think it’s actually okay to be annoyed with the Brewers and their handling of Burnes. Brewers’ front office apologists will not get us playoff series wins or World Series wins. That’s a fact. I think the Brewers messed this up. Plain and simple.

In a vacuum of course, if Burnes had asked for 20 million he'd be worth it but that's not the system we have and it's not changing. This is a system problem, not a Brewer problem

[PeterBal]

3 minutes ago, MVP2110 said:

In a vacuum of course, if Burnes had asked for 20 million he'd be worth it but that's not the system we have and it's not changing. This is a system problem, not a Brewer problem

On that we can mostly agree, however, the crux of this thread is that the Brewers are being petty with a true, undisputed ace, who has the ability to help lead the Brewers to Post-season play. So it is, a Brewer problem, as well.

[wiguy94]

37 minutes ago, PeterBal said:

The point, and question, is: Does a team TRULY committed to making the post-season or making a legitimate World Series run handle this like this?

I think you know the answer.

The Braves after winning a WS filed a $200K arb difference with their star pitcher Max Fried. I guess we now know the Braves aren't committed to making the postseason or making a legitimate World Series run. 

[PeterBal]

5 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

The Braves after winning a WS filed a $200K arb difference with their star pitcher Max Fried. I guess we now know the Braves aren't committed to making the postseason or making a legitimate World Series run. 

At least they made it to and won the World Series. When the Brewers can do that, we’ll talk. Until then, dumb move on the Brewers part. You know it and so does everyone else. Let’s call it like we see it.

[wiguy94]

Just now, PeterBal said:

At least they made it to and won the World Series. When the Brewers can do that, we’ll talk. Until then, dumb move on the Brewers part. You know it and so does everyone else. Let’s call it like we see it.

No don't walk it back now. You said what the Brewers did to Burnes is only something an unserious franchise with no interest in winning would do which is patently false. 

[PeterBal]

6 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

No don't walk it back now. You said what the Brewers did to Burnes is only something an unserious franchise with no interest in winning would do which is patently false. 

Not walking it back and for you to call that out as such is petty and a clear misunderstanding of the “intent” of my original post all the way up at the top, which is, the Brewers don’t seem to be making the best decisions for their team to take the next logical step to be successful, and folks like you who continually argue and support their efforts are frustrating because it seems to be just that - arguing for arguing sake.

Again, if one of the people here who supports this arbitration hearing can give me the benefits of the outcome and how it helps the team, I’m all ears. 

[MVP2110]

3 minutes ago, PeterBal said:

Not walking it back and for you to call that out as such is petty and a clear misunderstanding of the “intent” of my original post all the way up at the top, which is, the Brewers don’t seem to be making the best decisions for their team to take the next logical step to be successful, and folks like you who continually argue and support their efforts are frustrating because it seems to be just that - arguing for arguing sake.

Again, if one of the people here who supports this arbitration hearing can give me the benefits of the outcome and how it helps the team, I’m all ears. 

This was never about helping the team unfortunately, this is about helping all 30 clubs keep players salaries lower(and Burnes and his agent trying to raise player salaries). That's the system we have and it's unfortunate 

[PeterBal]

Just now, MVP2110 said:

This was never about helping the team unfortunately, this is about helping all 30 clubs keep players salaries lower(and Burnes and his agent trying to raise player salaries). That's the system we have and it's unfortunate 

How much do the Brewers pay you? 😉

[MVP2110]

1 minute ago, PeterBal said:

How much do the Brewers pay you? 😉

I'm just explaining the system, I'm not pro players or pro owners. 

[wiguy94]

10 minutes ago, PeterBal said:

the Brewers don’t seem to be making the best decisions for their team to take the next logical step to be successful

How would giving Burnes that extra $750K make us more successful? 

[PeterBal]

8 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

How would giving Burnes that extra $750K make us more successful? 

C’mon, you know that’s not the case. That’s just a wiseguy comment. It’s like I said earlier, it’s a morale thing, it’s an opportunity to potentially keep him longer as a Brewer, it’s about the ‘right thing to do’ for being arguably the best SP in MLB.

[Sixtolezcano]

Well I believe this just cements Burnes moving on from the Brewers in either 2023 or 2024. I seriously doubt that there is any way Burnes wants to stay a Brewer.

[rondoman]

 

The Brewers blamed Burnes for missing the playoffs at his arbitration hearing. The Brewers are a pathetic, second rate franchise. 

 

[Fear The Chorizo]

1 hour ago, Sixtolezcano said:

Well I believe this just cements Burnes moving on from the Brewers in either 2023 or 2024. I seriously doubt that there is any way Burnes wants to stay a Brewer.

If you didn't already realize as much after he won the Cy Young award in 2021 and entered into arbitration and there wasn't a contract extension announced that offseason, I'm not sure what else you were expecting.

[Team Canada]

6 hours ago, MVP2110 said:

Ps. Why do we have two separate threads on the same topic? 

I agree. We have a 6 page thread already, we should just post the article and link to it in the other thread. We don't need two.

[Sixtolezcano]

2 hours ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

If you didn't already realize as much after he won the Cy Young award in 2021 and entered into arbitration and there wasn't a contract extension announced that offseason, I'm not sure what else you were expecting.

Sorry! I guess I was just wishful thinking. I’ll be better next time. OK?

[Jake McKibbin]

Pyrrhic is my new favourite word

[GreatNWwi]

20 hours ago, Matthew Trueblood said:

On Wednesday........ Is there any way they can salvage this, in your eyes?

 

View full article

 

For a paid contribution this is crap.  The Brewers suck, is there any way they can salvage this?

Really?  How about a hint of neutrality.  Take a look at the two threads regarding this topic.  In there are lots of explanations of how the system works.  There should have been a little bit of knowledge about this topic before throwing this out there.

As for both threads.  This is a huge nothing burger.  The Brewers reputation was not hurt in the least among the league or potential free agents a year from now.  When the Brewers make the next offer to a FA, they will look at the bottom line not how the Brewers acted in arbitration.  Nobody cares except fans.  Burns says his feelings are hurt but he will be over it in a day or two when he realizes this is how it works and he is doing what he loves.

[areacodes]

17 hours ago, jason21nl said:

Certainly not. I had to look it up and then return back to this page on how to spell it correctly.   
 

with that being said. I’m less of a Brewers fan today than I was yesterday.  This actually pisses me off.  

I really don’t understand the bolded statement.

Were you less of a Brewers fan when they’ve gone to arby with players in the past and did the exact same thing when making their arguments to the panel?

Why aren’t you also upset at Burnes team for not meeting the Brewers in the middle and avoiding arby all together? The remaining 10 players who were all arby eligible managed to settle with the team and avoid this.

[Brock Beauchamp]

17 hours ago, PeterBal said:

How much do the Brewers pay you? 😉

Let’s not make this personal. MVP is simply stating how arbitration works and their points are accurate.

Whether it’s a bad system or not is kind of a separate argument, one I can’t recall seeing anyone make. Arb is considered universally awful by pretty much everyone.