Club wins Burnes' arbitration case (source)

[areacodes]

5 minutes ago, KeithStone53151 said:

It doesn't seem likely he simply made up this claim. And couple this with comments from other recent Brewers...very likely to be accurate.

Did I say he made it up? Nope.

Exaggerated or didn’t articulate well what was actually said about the claims? Absolutely.

[wiguy94]

24 minutes ago, KeithStone53151 said:

Imagine where the Brewers pitching would be if you plugged Jason Alexander/Ethan Small/whoever for Burnes 200+ innings of sub 3 era. I promise you it wouldn't be 16th, or 17th, or 18th, or 19th........

It's also tough to imagine the Brewers truly 10th in runs, we had 1 guy with over 800 OPS that had over 100 AB...and that was Hunter Renfroe who blew that number out of the water with his massive 807 OPS. The entire lineup was littered with sub 240 hitters except one or two guys.

Offense was down league wide last year. The Brewers had the 11th best wRC+ in baseball which takes park factors into consideration and puts everyone on a league scale. It was an above average offense. The pitching was average and completely fell off from where it was in 2021 and that includes Burnes. 

Burnes in 2021 had a 58 ERA-, 38 FIP-, 54 xFIP-, 6.3 RA9-WAR, 7.5 fWAR. Burnes in 2022 had a 73 ERA-, 79 FIP-, 72 xFIP-, 5.3 RA9-WAR, 4.6 fWAR.  

[Brewcrew82]

27 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

Offense was down league wide last year. The Brewers had the 11th best wRC+ in baseball which takes park factors into consideration and puts everyone on a league scale. It was an above average offense. The pitching was average and completely fell off from where it was in 2021 and that includes Burnes. 

Burnes in 2021 had a 58 ERA-, 38 FIP-, 54 xFIP-, 6.3 RA9-WAR, 7.5 fWAR. Burnes in 2022 had a 73 ERA-, 79 FIP-, 72 xFIP-, 5.3 RA9-WAR, 4.6 fWAR.  

The point is, Burnes was still a top 10 pitcher in the NL who carried the rotation for a significant chunk of the season. He wasn’t as good as 2021, but that was a historically good season that was going to be difficult to repeat. You take him off the team, and we would have struggled to finish above .500…And, of all of our players, he was least responsible for the missed playoffs outcome.

[MVP2110]

 

It's almost as if every team does this

 

 

[PlayerHader]

5 hours ago, KeithStone53151 said:

Agreed. Burnes asking for the same increase as Bieber is a downright reasonable ask in my opinion, it's probably more than reasonable as he's been at least a bit better over the last 2 years combined.

I'm a bit taken back by some of the people defending the Brewers here. Imagine more or less carrying a pathetic offense to the brink of the post season and in your arbitration hearing, apparently Corbin it's your fault the Brewers didn't make the post season. Let me ask, where is this squad without Corbin? There'd be a heck of a lot more discussion on these forums about what top 10 talent we might be getting in the draft this year. Brewers FO are straight clowns.

I’m taken aback by fans who think the Brewers should pay players more than the current system says they need to. If Corbin Burnes wanted more money than the arb system dictates, he needs to commit to more years. That’s how it works in the current system. Why should teams, particularly those who don’t have a shot at elite talent once they are FAs, pay  more?

[PlayerHader]

4 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

The point is, Burnes was still a top 10 pitcher in the NL who carried the rotation for a significant chunk of the season. He wasn’t as good as 2021, but that was a historically good season that was going to be difficult to repeat. You take him off the team, and we would have struggled to finish above .500…And, of all of our players, he was least responsible for the missed playoffs outcome.

If only any of that mattered in the current cleverly bargained system. That’s the point. 

[Shin Wook Lee]

Now Corbin may be pitching for himself, not for Brewers. This could be a very big problem, and Brewers could have made a big mistake.
But for the Brewers, it was difficult to keep Corbin Burnes in the long run. Therefore, even a little 'cheap Corbin Burnes' should be put on the Trade Market. It's sad, but it can't be helped.

[Brock Beauchamp]

6 hours ago, Shin Wook Lee said:

Now Corbin may be pitching for himself, not for Brewers. This could be a very big problem, and Brewers could have made a big mistake.
But for the Brewers, it was difficult to keep Corbin Burnes in the long run. Therefore, even a little 'cheap Corbin Burnes' should be put on the Trade Market. It's sad, but it can't be helped.

Welcome to Brewer Fanatic!

While this situation is obviously unfortunate, Corbin Burnes pitching angry might not be the worst thing possible in 2023…

[sveumrules]

15 hours ago, KeithStone53151 said:

Imagine where the Brewers pitching would be if you plugged Jason Alexander/Ethan Small/whoever for Burnes 200+ innings of sub 3 era. I promise you it wouldn't be 16th, or 17th, or 18th, or 19th........

It's also tough to imagine the Brewers truly 10th in runs, we had 1 guy with over 800 OPS that had over 100 AB...and that was Hunter Renfroe who blew that number out of the water with his massive 807 OPS. The entire lineup was littered with sub 240 hitters except one or two guys.

No doubt, replace Burnes with a worse pitcher and the pitching gets worse. I don’t think anyone is arguing otherwise.

There’s also no doubt the offense was 10th in runs scored and that isn’t pathetic.

Brewers position players had 6122 PAs last year, only 165 of those PAs went to players with negative WAR. 

Of the top nine players by PAs, seven had a wRC+ over 100 (despite their batting averages) and the two who didn’t were just a hair below average at 98 (Cutch) and 96 (Jace).

That’s how a team ends up 8th in WAR and 10th in runs scored without any obvious superstar level performance.

[mtsportsfan]

Commenting late on this and I'm sure somebody already said this . Burned received a pretty handsome raise undoubtedly he deserves more and will get that eventually , that being said it won't be the brewers . unfortunately the crew will not be able to afford him when it gets to that point , so keep his salary at the minimum of what we have to pay and pray that he doesn't get hurt so that when it is time to trade him we can max value for him . love burns , just not affordable for us ! ( stinks) 

[Jopal78]

I’m sure when Burnes gets his first bi-weekly paycheck of $390,000 his feelings will suddenly hurt a bit less. 

[torts]

It'll be more around $150-60k after taxes and dues/fees, I dunno if he can survive 

[StearnsFTW]

19 hours ago, KeithStone53151 said:

Agreed. Burnes asking for the same increase as Bieber is a downright reasonable ask in my opinion, it's probably more than reasonable as he's been at least a bit better over the last 2 years combined.

I'm a bit taken back by some of the people defending the Brewers here. Imagine more or less carrying a pathetic offense to the brink of the post season and in your arbitration hearing, apparently Corbin it's your fault the Brewers didn't make the post season. Let me ask, where is this squad without Corbin? There'd be a heck of a lot more discussion on these forums about what top 10 talent we might be getting in the draft this year. Brewers FO are straight clowns.

Bieber got 10.1.

Burnes comes off as the clown here, to me anyway.

 

[StearnsFTW]

18 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

The point is, Burnes was still a top 10 pitcher in the NL who carried the rotation for a significant chunk of the season. He wasn’t as good as 2021, but that was a historically good season that was going to be difficult to repeat. You take him off the team, and we would have struggled to finish above .500…And, of all of our players, he was least responsible for the missed playoffs outcome.

That's why he got $10,000,000.  He's really good.

[brewcrewdue80]

You know checking the splits for 1st half to second half with the Brewers other SPs. Burnes ERA is 4th. Woodruff essentially reversed Burnes 1st half with his 2nd half. Peralta was 2nd. Nuts that his best month August for ERA was also the month he gave up 4HRs vs 1 the other months.  Even Lauer squeaked in below Burnes ERA with the most consistent season being essentially 3.6ERA monthly.  So the statement isn't wrong.  But truthfully it was Peralta and Woodruff missing games that impacted the playoffs missed and you know the Hader trade. (Which will be great if team goes deep in playoffs this year on account of Contreras making the trade a win)

Burnes did have his higher ERA come with a much larger IP than the rest. Saves the bullpen. But that also gives a larger sample size being near 4ERA.  Both sides lost here but as some mentioned of 11 Arb players, Burnes was the only one who went to it. 

I still dislike McCalvy terming a question with bad blood to lead Burnes to answer disgust towards what transpired at the meeting.  Guess McCalvy needed some new likes and follows.  That or the guy is clueless on the timing to instigate bad blood. Literally pitchers and catchers just reported. The teams newest catcher long term walks in to this. Other Arb decisions were forthcoming that feels a good number of teams won when previous it was more players won. The timing is just like hey Corbin you're the loser everyone around you settled/extended or won.   I'd have waited for Burnes to lead with the opinion there's tension between the two and the way Arb went down in front of him.  Time heals wounds a couple days to sit on what occurred and see these other results his words may have just been not a story its a part of the process. I tried to set a new high bar and they didn't go that way. No bad blood.

[LouisEly]

22 hours ago, nate82 said:

Every year at the end of the year.  While not an arbitration hearing corporate America has this year end review of what you have done and what you need to improve on.  It can get really bad at times and people who have big egos or can't take criticism have absolute meltdowns.  This also sets your pay for the next year every manager I have gone into a year end meeting will say things like I really like you and everything you do but I have to tear into you and why you are not getting the highest rating.  This also impacts your raise and/or bonus. 

Exactly this.  At my last company at every annual performance review I was reminded of every little thing that I did over the course of the year that wasn't perfect.

MLB players should be thankful that they have pay transparency.  We just received pay transparency starting this year due to pay transparency laws in several states; the company only has to list the pay range in job postings but they chose to make the pay range for every level visible to everyone (you can only see what it is for the level that you are at).  And I found out that I was being paid 16.5% below the midpoint of the range of the level that I'm in, which is lower than every person on my team that I manage. 

And next week I get to find out if I get passed over for a promotion because the company isn't meeting it's financial goals and thus cut the budget for raises and promotions. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

2 hours ago, StearnsFTW said:

Bieber got 10.1.

Burnes comes off as the clown here, to me anyway.

I can’t fault a guy for wanting to get paid. I’d probably be frustrated in his position, too. I don’t think this can or should be viewed as “one side is right, the other is wrong”. If anything, the system is the true villain in the situation. 

[brewmann04]

Burnes is going all out for himself this season which should benefit the crew. And also benefit his trade value 

[TURBO]

1 hour ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

I can’t fault a guy for wanting to get paid. I’d probably be frustrated in his position, too. I don’t think this can or should be viewed as “one side is right, the other is wrong”. If anything, the system is the true villain in the situation. 

It's a system that the players voted for, correct?  If that is the case, why do so many of them ***** and complain?  Stupid.

[Brock Beauchamp]

2 minutes ago, TURBO said:

It's a system that the players voted for, correct?  If that is the case, why do so many of them ***** and complain?  Stupid.

It’s a system players voted for about 60 years ago, I think. Pretty sure the system predates free agency. 

[CheeseheadInQC]

2 minutes ago, TURBO said:

It's a system that the players voted for, correct?  If that is the case, why do so many of them ***** and complain?  Stupid.

You know that old saying about how democracy is the worst form of government except for all the other ones? The system is bad, but because of how baseball is economically structured, no one can come up with anything better. That doesn’t negate its faults. It just makes them a necessary evil.

[StearnsFTW]

2 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

I can’t fault a guy for wanting to get paid. I’d probably be frustrated in his position, too. I don’t think this can or should be viewed as “one side is right, the other is wrong”. If anything, the system is the true villain in the situation. 

Meh.  Hundreds if not thousands of guys have gone through the process without whining about it.

I don't think Corbin is a villain, I just wish he would've kept it to himself. 

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

42 minutes ago, StearnsFTW said:

I don't think Corbin is a villain, I just wish he would've kept it to himself. 

I agree with that. Nothing positive comes from taking his opinions public in the heat of the moment. 

[tmwiese55]

2 hours ago, TURBO said:

It's a system that the players voted for, correct?  If that is the case, why do so many of them ***** and complain?  Stupid.

Right, his anger actually should be at his union for valuing vets getting these ridiculous 30+ mil per year deals over the younger players.    Oh wait, he won't be mad in two years when he's the one reaping that benefit. 

[homer]

to play devil's advocate for a second, Attanasio is worth like 700 million. Why cant he just pony up another 700K?