Club wins Burnes' arbitration case (source)

[Fear The Chorizo]

2 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

And what sources do you have to offer alternatively? McCalvy is a professional journalist and the long-time beat reporter for the TEAM'S website. Unless you have a better source, I'm inclined to believe his information here...

Again, you do realize that one of the basic tactics of negotiation is to start above your actual asking price so that the other party will negotiate down to that price? 

$10.56 isn't halfway between the two sides' positions - when it gets to decision making time at the arbitration deadline, the player and his reps have to weigh whether the current offer on the table by the team (likely closer to halfway between, probably $10.4M for the sake of argument) is acceptable, or they want to take the risk of making $350K more vs losing $350K if they lose in arbitration while trying to establish a new precedent for future arbitration hearings.  There's tremendous pressure on star players to go to arbitration by the players union, but oftentimes they view the risk as being worth it knowing those starts will get more than enough money once they reach free agency.

I don't blame Burnes for trying to get his initial position in arbitration, understanding he probably had the players union in his ear convincing him it's in the best interest for him in the long run no matter what the decision was.  It's poor form on his part to handle the L in this way.

[Brewcrew82]

14 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

 

I don't blame Burnes for trying to get his initial position in arbitration, understanding he probably had the players union in his ear convincing him it's in the best interest for him in the long run no matter what the decision was.  It's poor form on his part to handle the L in this way.

Burnes is human. I think many on this board would act and feel the same if they were in his shoes. I'm cetainly not going to cast stones at Burnes, particularly if the team is going to try to argue that he's largely responsible for them missing the playoffs. 

[wallus]

It's weird to me that Burnes was at the meeting. Why not just let your representation handle it?

[Fear The Chorizo]

8 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Burnes is human. I think many on this board would act and feel the same if they were in his shoes. I'm not certainly going to cast stones at Burnes, particularly if the team is going to try to argue that he's responsible for them missing the playoffs. 

Burnes said he felt like he was put in the forefront for them missing the playoffs - he didn't say "The Brewers said in the hearing I was the reason they missed the playoffs last year".  That's a big difference, and I think you're likely running with how Burnes feels after losing the arbitration hearing beyond what the Brewers actually said.  Burnes can infer he was put at the forefront of why they didn't make the playoffs if the Brewers simply laid out his 2nd half stats for 2022 (which is a large part of what arbitration hearings are about from the team's side of things) - but that doesn't mean the Brewers stated that directly during the hearing.  Frankly, I doubt they did.

 

[Underachiever]

Sorry if already said: He was never signing with the Brewers long-term. If he wants to pout and jeopardize a potential $400 million contract because they were mean to him over $750k, he’s king of the idiots. What a baby going to the press with that nonsense.
And I am pro player in these matters. Not a fan of owners. 

[Brewcrew82]

I will say that I don't get the people who think Burnes is going to sabotage our season because of this. He has every incentive to continue to pitch the way he has over the past three years to get perhaps the richest contract for a SP in MLB history...

[OldSchoolSnapper]

48 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Burnes is human. I think many on this board would act and feel the same if they were in his shoes. I'm cetainly not going to cast stones at Burnes, particularly if the team is going to try to argue that he's largely responsible for them missing the playoffs. 

You just say stuff at these hearings and hope something sticks. I've been reading for a decade that none of it should be taken personally. 

This is all such a nothing burger to me. Who cares if he's upset? He isn't staying here anyway. What's he going to do? Pitch worse and make less? 

[rickh150]

58 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Burnes is human. I think many on this board would act and feel the same if they were in his shoes. I'm cetainly not going to cast stones at Burnes, particularly if the team is going to try to argue that he's largely responsible for them missing the playoffs. 

“IF THE TEAM…”
You cast stones at the team based on this?. That’s what I don’t get…. a pretty strong opinion based on your own words of “If the team….”  
 

[rickh150]

15 minutes ago, OldSchoolSnapper said:

You just say stuff at these hearings and hope something sticks. I've been reading for a decade that none of it should be taken personally. 

This is all such a nothing burger to me. Who cares if he's upset? He isn't staying here anyway. What's he going to do? Pitch worse and make less? 

He should take his 10 million and humbly thank Milwaukee families who pay $200 a game to see him pitch.

[torts]

It blows my mind a grown adult who is in this profession and union is surprised or shocked with how an arbitration hearing goes.  It is black and white.  Nothing of this is new or ground breaking, and his bff could have shared that with him.  

[brewcrewdue80]

2 hours ago, wiguy94 said:

Why did Burnes not file for $10.56M then? Why did he file for more? 

Addressed earlier. Players filed higher to raise the midway point.

[Matt]

I haven't gone back through the various threads, but is anyone here asking the question why the Brewers didn't go with the Lincecum route and buy out the last two arby years? They don't set the precedent for other more wealthy clubs, an absolutely asinine argument for Milwaukee. 

[Jopal78]

2 hours ago, wallus said:

It's weird to me that Burnes was at the meeting. Why not just let your representation handle it?

It’s a tactic: make it awkward for the Brewers to speak critically about their own player when he is sitting right there listening. 

[wallus]

15 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

It’s a tactic: make it awkward for the Brewers to speak critically about their own player when he is sitting right there listening. 

That seems like a really poor tactic as I guarantee these presentations are incredibly scripted.

[Jim French Stepstool]

21 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

It’s a tactic: make it awkward for the Brewers to speak critically about their own player when he is sitting right there listening. 

And, if he loses & doesn't like some of what was said, can fly right to the nearest jamoke with a microphone & camera.

What sucks about this whole process is that the player/agent can state his case as enthusiastically and positively as he wants to, while being in no danger of disparaging management. Ownership can't do that w/o being in danger of looking like the bad guy. From a PR standpoint one side can't win without taking risks. The other has no such worries.

[Axman59]

2 hours ago, torts said:

It blows my mind a grown adult who is in this profession and union is surprised or shocked with how an arbitration hearing goes.  It is black and white.  Nothing of this is new or ground breaking, and his bff could have shared that with him.  

Very logical. But tell me, when is the last time you were s*** on by your employer at an arbitration hearing?

[brewcrewdue80]

4 hours ago, Matt said:

I haven't gone back through the various threads, but is anyone here asking the question why the Brewers didn't go with the Lincecum route and buy out the last two arby years? They don't set the precedent for other more wealthy clubs, an absolutely asinine argument for Milwaukee. 

14 hours ago, Matt said:

Yikes.

Your answer.

Some other post mentioned it was 2 yrs with a single option year.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

How much smoke has to pour out of the windows before people realize there's a fire inside the Brewers house? The relentless defense by some is a sight to behold. I see more criticism of management and ownership/leadership on both of the Packers and Bucks forums I visit. That in itself is amazing to me given the accomplishments of the 3 teams.

As an aside, watch as Attanasio puts the team on the block after Burnes, Woodruff, and Adames depart and this money for AmFam is secured. If some of these hitting prospects amount to anything while they're cheap  it will be a tremendous time to sell. It will also explain why more wasn't invested in this window with one of the league's best pitching staffs. How the heck is the 2023 payroll $104 million with Burnes and Woodruff anchoring the rotation? If they thought Hader was set to be paid too much in 2023 then what did they spend that money on instead? Maybe when that picture comes to light, the unending defense of the organization will go away.

And I say all of this as a former unabashed apologist of this organization. I was as high on Attanasio and Stearns (and Melvin before that) as anyone. Things have changed dramatically and so many just don't see it.

[MVP2110]

44 minutes ago, True Blue Brew Crew said:

How much smoke has to pour out of the windows before people realize there's a fire inside the Brewers house? The relentless defense by some is a sight to behold. I see more criticism of management and ownership/leadership on both of the Packers and Bucks forums I visit. That in itself is amazing to me given the accomplishments of the 3 teams.

As an aside, watch as Attanasio puts the team on the block after Burnes, Woodruff, and Adames depart and this money for AmFam is secured. If some of these hitting prospects amount to anything while they're cheap  it will be a tremendous time to sell. It will also explain why more wasn't invested in this window with one of the league's best pitching staffs. How the heck is the 2023 payroll $104 million with Burnes and Woodruff anchoring the rotation? If they thought Hader was set to be paid too much in 2023 then what did they spend that money on instead? Maybe when that picture comes to light, the unending defense of the organization will go away.

And I say all of this as a former unabashed apologist of this organization. I was as high on Attanasio and Stearns (and Melvin before that) as anyone. Things have changed dramatically and so many just don't see it.

The payroll has gone down by roughly the same amount they were supposed to get from Ballys this year. I don't think that's a coincidence 

[Jopal78]

6 hours ago, Axman59 said:

Very logical. But tell me, when is the last time you were s*** on by your employer at an arbitration hearing?

I would imagine the number of posters here who went to arbitration with their employer over their salary, is probably zero. 
 

This whole story is dumb.

First McCalvy is a crappy journalist who never asks critical questions to players likely out of fear of losing access. Here,  the obvious follow up question went unasked. When Burnes said his relationship with the Brewers is hurt because what was said at the hearing. The follow up is to ask “what did you expect was going to happen at the hearing”?

Plus, there’s only half the story; from the video clip it sure sounds like the Brewers tried to settle with him, and avoid hearing. Yet he wasn’t asked and none of us fans have any information as to whether Burnes was really even willing to negotiate off his number. That Milwaukee settled with everyone else, including Woodruff, leads me to believe the Brewers were earnest in trying to avoid a hearing with their players.

Third, and finally Corbin Burnes got a huge raise the other day and he’s unhappy about it. That’s all you need to know about professional athletes.

[torts]

6 hours ago, Axman59 said:

Very logical. But tell me, when is the last time you were s*** on by your employer at an arbitration hearing?

I don't bc I'm non union, but I have been passed over for justifiable (imo) raises, and have been told why I wasn't getting it, and guess what, not salty.  Maybe I have thicker skin?  Maybe I don't view my employer as a buddy?  

[OldSchoolSnapper]

6 hours ago, Axman59 said:

Very logical. But tell me, when is the last time you were s*** on by your employer at an arbitration hearing?

He got an award for literally being the best pitcher in the league. He should be self assured enough to realize how much of it is hot air. 

[MrTPlush]

7 hours ago, Axman59 said:

Very logical. But tell me, when is the last time you were s*** on by your employer at an arbitration hearing?

Yes, let’s try to compare Burnes to the average joe as he makes more money regardless than any person would make in a few lifetimes. I am sure these are very comparable situations.

🤢

 

[brewmann04]

Burnes is going to pitch lights out here and then the Brewers will be forced to trade him because they will not or wont be able to pay the Man. I Hope Matt starts out early on a list of teams he can move him too and they do better than the return for Josh .Did the Brewers kinda blame him for not making the Playoffs during his arbitration?

[Fear The Chorizo]

7 hours ago, Axman59 said:

Very logical. But tell me, when is the last time you were s*** on by your employer at an arbitration hearing?

It actually happens a ton during internal performance review discussions by upper management.  Then the employee's manager has a meeting with the employee to discuss results of any position/raise/bonus decision.  Not an apples to apples comparison because not all workplace scenarios are the same as a professional athlete making life changing money for most of us every season (shocking, I know), but this sort of thing happens all the time.