Club wins Burnes' arbitration case (source)

[sveumrules]

The Brewers reached agreements with all their other Arby’s eligible players.

That indicates to me that Burnes and his camp were the ones unwilling to compromise and meet somewhere in the middle, instead preferring to go to the hearing.

They gambled, lost and on top of it all Burnes got a glimpse behind the curtain at the ugly realities of the arbitration process.

Sounds like somewhat of a careful what you wish for to me.

[Brewcrew82]

1 minute ago, sveumrules said:

The Brewers reached agreements with all their other Arby’s eligible players.

That indicates to me that Burnes and his camp were the ones unwilling to compromise and meet somewhere in the middle, instead preferring to go to the hearing.

They gambled, lost and on top of it all Burnes got a glimpse behind the curtain at the ugly realities of the arbitration process.

Sounds like somewhat of a careful what you wish for to me.

From Adam McCalvy:

"Based on their similar statistics, Burnes’ case had parallels to another former Cy Young Award winner, Cleveland’s Shane Bieber. Bieber earned $6 million last season in his first arbitration year and went 13-8 with a 2.88 ERA and a 132 ERA+ in 200 innings. That earned him a $4.01 million raise to $10.01 million earlier this offseason.

Burnes, meanwhile, earned $6.55 million last season in his first arbitration year and went 12-8 with a 2.94 ERA and a 134 ERA+ in 202 innings. The way the arbitration system works, Burnes could make a case that he deserved a similar increase in salary to Bieber, which would have pushed him to $10.56 million.

Had the Brewers offered that, a source said, it would have been accepted.

Indeed, the sides were very close to an agreement in January, Burnes said. But those talks fell apart right at the deadline for teams and players to formally exchange figures, and each side retreated into its corner. The Brewers filed at $10.01 million. Burnes filed at $10.75 million."

Brewers seem to have been every bit as unwilling to compromise as Burnes...

 · 

 

Brewers ready for start of According to Burnes, there were little negotiations after that -- partly because that’s part of a strategy adopted by teams who tend to go to a hearing after the exchange of figures. The exception is usually for a multi-year deal, and the Brewers indeed came to Burnes a day or two before the scheduled hearing with offers that included either a club option or a mutual option for 2024. But, according to a source, Burnes and his camp considered both years of those offers to be undervalued. The offers were rejected.

 

[Fear The Chorizo]

5 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

It's the epitome of foolishness for the team to lay Corbin at the "forefront" of us missing the playoffs, considering he was the single biggest reason why we were in contention to begin with....

As for the 2021 NLDS? Please...He was honest with Counsell about where his body was at, and Counsell made the decision to start Lauer. Or have you not seen the stats on starters pitching in the postseason on 3 day's rest?

So exactly what did the team representatives say in the hearing?  Word for word, not just a glossed over summary from the mouth of the pitcher who didn't get his way in the arbitration hearing.

You're drawing way too precise a conclusion as to exactly how the arbitration hearing unfolded based on Burnes' comments today, and nothing specific from the Brewers.

[Brewcrew82]

Just now, Fear The Chorizo said:

So exactly what did the team representatives say in the hearing?  Word for word, not just a glossed over summary from the mouth of the pitcher who didn't get his way in the arbitration hearing.

You're drawing way too precise a conclusion as to exactly how the arbitration hearing unfolded based on Burnes' comments today, and nothing specific from the Brewers.

Burnes made his comments, and said that's what they said in the hearing. Brewers haven't denied it, simply saying it's a difficult process, and they hope both sides can move on. I'm inclined to believe the player here...

And then taking into account Cain's and Hader's comments, it starts to become quite concerning...

[Fear The Chorizo]

1 minute ago, Brewcrew82 said:

From Adam McCalvy:

"Based on their similar statistics, Burnes’ case had parallels to another former Cy Young Award winner, Cleveland’s Shane Bieber. Bieber earned $6 million last season in his first arbitration year and went 13-8 with a 2.88 ERA and a 132 ERA+ in 200 innings. That earned him a $4.01 million raise to $10.01 million earlier this offseason.

Burnes, meanwhile, earned $6.55 million last season in his first arbitration year and went 12-8 with a 2.94 ERA and a 134 ERA+ in 202 innings. The way the arbitration system works, Burnes could make a case that he deserved a similar increase in salary to Bieber, which would have pushed him to $10.56 million.

Had the Brewers offered that, a source said, it would have been accepted.

Indeed, the sides were very close to an agreement in January, Burnes said. But those talks fell apart right at the deadline for teams and players to formally exchange figures, and each side retreated into its corner. The Brewers filed at $10.01 million. Burnes filed at $10.75 million."

Brewers seem to have been every bit as unwilling to compromise as Burnes...

 · 

 

Brewers ready for start of According to Burnes, there were little negotiations after that -- partly because that’s part of a strategy adopted by teams who tend to go to a hearing after the exchange of figures. The exception is usually for a multi-year deal, and the Brewers indeed came to Burnes a day or two before the scheduled hearing with offers that included either a club option or a mutual option for 2024. But, according to a source, Burnes and his camp considered both years of those offers to be undervalued. The offers were rejected.

 

If I'm not mistaken, the arbitration hearing only can use the figures both sides initially filed, not any of the negotiated sums they may have been close with prior to the deadline in between.  That's often why most of these wind up meeting somewhere in the middle, which is apparently where both sides were up to the last minute and not able to reach a deal.

[Brewcrew82]

Just now, Fear The Chorizo said:

If I'm not mistaken, the arbitration hearing only can use the figures both sides initially filed, not any of the negotiated sums they may have been close with prior to the deadline in between.  That's often why most of these wind up meeting somewhere in the middle, which is apparently where both sides were up to the last minute and not able to reach a deal.

They could've offered him the Bieber sum before the hearing, and it would have been accepted according to McCalvy..

[Fear The Chorizo]

Just now, Brewcrew82 said:

Burnes made his comments, and said that's what they said in the hearing. Brewers haven't denied it, simply saying it's a difficult process, and they hope both sides can move on. I'm inclined to believe the player here...

And then taking into account Cain's and Hader's comments, it starts to become quite concerning...

Or it could be construed as the team doesn't see the point of airing dirty laundry in public, or getting into a he said/I said sort of dispute with their best pitcher headed into Spring Training, and instead opt to chalk Burnes' comments up to being frustrated with the process and stick with their comments made yesterday after results of the hearing decision were made public, which were all very positive towards Burnes.  

 

[Fear The Chorizo]

Just now, Brewcrew82 said:

They could've offered him the Bieber sum before the hearing, and it would have been accepted according to McCalvy..

Bieber got $10.01M before going to a hearing - Burnes received $10.01 after losing his hearing.

He did get the Bieber sum.

[ecjimg]

Arnold needs to be fired. Period 

[wiguy94]

2 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

They could've offered him the Bieber sum before the hearing, and it would have been accepted according to McCalvy..

Why did Burnes not file for $10.56M then? Why did he file for more? 

[Brewcrew82]

Just now, Fear The Chorizo said:

Or it could be construed as the team doesn't see the point of airing dirty laundry in public, or getting into a he said/I said sort of dispute with their best pitcher headed into Spring Training, and instead opt to chalk Burnes' comments up to being frustrated with the process and stick with their comments made yesterday after results of the hearing decision were made public, which were all very positive towards Burnes.  

 

It could realistically be construed that way, but that would require ignoring Cain and Hader's similar comments...

[Fear The Chorizo]

Just now, Brewcrew82 said:

It could realistically be construed that way, but that would require ignoring Cain and Hader's similar comments...

I'll gladly ignore comments made from a player who was willingly kept long enough for 10 years of service time by the organization he's bashing when he was hitting like a pitcher for more than a season, and a reliever who probably knew he wasn't going to sign a longterm deal with the Brewers well before he started the arbitration process, also.

 

[Brewcrew82]

2 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

Bieber got $10.01M before going to a hearing - Burnes received $10.01 after losing his hearing.

He did get the Bieber sum.

Sorry, I meant the same increase from arb 1 to arb 2. At $6 million, that would have brought Burnes up to $10.56 million...

[Brewcrew82]

1 minute ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

I'll gladly ignore comments made from a player who was willingly kept long enough for 10 years of service time by the organization he's bashing when he was hitting like a pitcher for more than a season, and a reliever who probably knew he wasn't going to sign a longterm deal with the Brewers well before he started the arbitration process, also.

 

You might be able to, but will the rest of the league view it in that way?

[Brewcrew82]

6 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

Why did Burnes not file for $10.56M then? Why did he file for more? 

Probably because he thought he could get the Brewers there by filing for $10.75. You know, basic negotiation...

[wiguy94]

Just now, Brewcrew82 said:

Probably because he thought he could get the Brewers there by filing for $10.75. You know, basic negotiation...

Clearly he and his agency were in over their heads then and are taking out their disappointment for reaching too far on the Brewers.

[Fear The Chorizo]

8 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Sorry, I meant the same increase from arb 1 to arb 2. At $6 million, that would have brought Burnes up to $10.56 million...

Why does that amount have to be the exact same increase when Bieber's Arby 1 amount came on the heels of a limited innings 2021 season due to injury, and Burnes' Arby 1 amount came on the heels of winning the Cy Young award?  Of course Bieber's Arby 1 salary would be lower than Burnes', and Burnes rightfully got a higher amount.  If Bieber were healthy throughout 2021 and had a typical 2021 season to his standards, he would have gotten what Burnes earned in 2022 as well.  And he still would have gotten the $10.01 M he signed for in Arby 2 this offseason.  The Arby 2 amounts are largely based on how the pitcher performs the season prior along with service time considerations, and the amounts factor in similar pitcher salary histories.  Like it or not, that's how the process works.

[Fear The Chorizo]

9 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

You might be able to, but will the rest of the league view it in that way?

If they're honest with themselves I don't see why not.

Curious if there's ever been a team who lost an arbitration hearing air their grievances to the media and bash the player publicly.

[Brewcrew82]

6 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

Clearly he and his agency were in over their heads then and are taking out their disappointment for reaching too far on the Brewers.

Reaching too far to want the same Arb 2 increase as Bieber, also a former Cy Young Winner with virtually identical 2022 numbers? Seems logical to me. 

[wiguy94]

Just now, Brewcrew82 said:

Reaching too far to want the same Arb 2 increase as Bieber, also a former Cy Young Winner with virtually identical 2022 numbers? Seems logical to me. 

No they filed for a bigger increase than Bieber got. There's zero reason to believe that Burnes would have accepted for $10.56M. You are putting way too much faith in anonymous sources and Burnes sour grapes statements. 

[Brewcrew82]

4 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

If they're honest with themselves I don't see why not.

We'll see what happens with their efforts to extend his teammates in Woodruff and Adames, as well as the next crop of stars in Chourio, Frelick, etc. I'm not convinced it's that simple...

[Fear The Chorizo]

13 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Reaching too far to want the same Arb 2 increase as Bieber, also a former Cy Young Winner with virtually identical 2022 numbers? Seems logical to me. 

Bieber pitched less than 100 innings in 2021 and had shoulder issues, which was why his Arby 1 salary wasn't as high as Burnes.   Look at it from the lense of Bieber not getting his full value in Arby 1 due to injury/performance in 2021 and then getting his full value in Arby 2.  Meanwhile, Burnes got his full value in both Arby 1 and Arby 2, but he asked for more than what the system would give him in Arby 2 and is upset he and the players union didn't get the result they wanted.

[Fear The Chorizo]

9 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

We'll see what happens with their efforts to extend his teammates in Woodruff and Adames, as well as the next crop of stars in Chourio, Frelick, etc. I'm not convinced it's that simple...

I'll reserve naming any prospects, no matter how fantastic they appear to be, stars until they prove it at the MLB level.  And no way do I want the Brewers paying market value to extend Adames or Woodruff and likely prevent any sort of career-long extension for the likes of Chourio if he does prove to be the 2nd coming.

[Brewcrew82]

Just now, wiguy94 said:

No they filed for a bigger increase than Bieber got. There's zero reason to believe that Burnes would have accepted for $10.56M. You are putting way too much faith in anonymous sources and Burnes sour grapes statements. 

And what sources do you have to offer alternatively? McCalvy is a professional journalist and the long-time beat reporter for the TEAM'S website. Unless you have a better source, I'm inclined to believe his information here...

Again, you do realize that one of the basic tactics of negotiation is to start above your actual asking price so that the other party will negotiate down to that price? 

[Brewcrew82]

5 minutes ago, Fear The Chorizo said:

I'll reserve naming any prospects, no matter how fantastic they appear to be, stars until they prove it at the MLB level.  And no way do I want the Brewers paying market value to extend Adames or Woodruff and likely prevent any sort of career-long extension for the likes of Chourio if he does prove to be the 2nd coming.

An extension for Woodruff or Adames wouldn't be prohibitive for an extension for Chourio if done during his first year a la Franco, Rodriguez, etc.