Club wins Burnes' arbitration case (source)

[brooks_quichenick]

2 minutes ago, MVP2110 said:

As explained earlier this isn't just over 750k, the precedent would cost owners millions in the long run.

Why should we as fans care anything about that? The owners/front offices collude to set standards for player salaries in arbitration, and we're supposed to just throw our hands up and say "welp, it's just the system!" when our favorite team pisses off our best player?

[MVP2110]

1 minute ago, brooks_quichenick said:

Why should we as fans care anything about that? The owners/front offices collude to set standards for player salaries in arbitration, and we're supposed to just throw our hands up and say "welp, it's just the system!" when our favorite team pisses off our best player?

It's basically legal collusion on both sides. Players this year as a group decided to ask for higher salaries to try and push precedents up and increase salaries across the board. Owners and front offices work to keep salaries down, players and agents work to push salaries up.

[MVP2110]

3 minutes ago, brooks_quichenick said:

Why should we as fans care anything about that? The owners/front offices collude to set standards for player salaries in arbitration, and we're supposed to just throw our hands up and say "welp, it's just the system!" when our favorite team pisses off our best player?

It's again worth noting this is a system the players originally fought for and won. 

[brewcrewdue80]

21 minutes ago, markedman5 said:

 

Adam McCalvy really forcing the issue by narrating his question with essentially there needs to be bad blood over this right Corbin?  Then posts the added Brewers offered a 2year deal that Corbin says was pretty poor.  Based on the 10.1M and what goes to I guess 18M next season if that?  What's a pretty poor offer? 2/26M or lower?  What's Milwaukee supposed to do just give him more money than what Arb is going to stick to him next season?  2/28Mil?  They pay him 2/30 and he's overpaid vs what Arb is going to reward him.  I guess where he could call out the Brewers would be that they couldn't work out a number in between for this season.  Like 10.35-10.4M.   If Burnes held out for the Arb and didn't take that offer then it's on him and his agent for being greedy and affecting the future players' values.

[Brewcrew82]

Just an overall horrible look for the organization. I get the arbitration system is what it is, but badmouthing your franchise pitcher over such a relatively small amount of dollars is beyond stomach turning as a fan. Mark has some real work to do restore goodwill amongst the fanbase after this and the Hader trade. 

The only good that can come out of this now is if Corbin pitches with a huge chip on his shoulder on his way to a second Cy Young, and then we get a haul for him next offseason. 

[brooks_quichenick]

2 minutes ago, MVP2110 said:

It's basically legal collusion on both sides. Players this year as a group decided to ask for higher salaries to try and push precedents up and increase salaries across the board. Owners and front offices work to keep salaries down, players and agents work to push salaries up.

Yes, we're all aware how arbitration works, but thanks.

My point is, we're all rooting for the players on the field, not ownership and their ledgers. "Legal collusion" on both sides or not, why would any fan just shrug and say "well it is what it is". Of course we have the right to be upset when our historically cheap franchise nickel and dimes arguably the best starting pitcher we've ever had.

[MVP2110]

3 minutes ago, brooks_quichenick said:

Yes, we're all aware how arbitration works, but thanks.

My point is, we're all rooting for the players on the field, not ownership and their ledgers. "Legal collusion" on both sides or not, why would any fan just shrug and say "well it is what it is". Of course we have the right to be upset when our historically cheap franchise nickel and dimes arguably the best starting pitcher we've ever had.

I'm rooting for the Brewers, I don't really care who wins arb cases or CBAs or anything along those lines. One could make the argument that the Brewers "nickel and dimed" Burnes or they could make the argument that Corbin got greedy and pushed for a salary above what the precedent has been set at. It's clear an independent arbitrator agreed with the Brewers in this instance. I don't fault Corbin for trying to get what he felt he deserved and I don't fault the Brewers for doing what all 30 MLB teams do, it is literally what the system is designed for. And if you have an issue with the system then you should be mad at the players because this was their system that they fought to have.

[jerichoholicninja]

If you as a fan are upset about this happening you haven't been paying attention to baseball the last couple decades. This happens every offseason to a couple players. The media and fans make a big fuss about it and then everyone moves on and forgets.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

A lot of the assumptions made in defense of the team as this process played out are looking awfuly poor right now. The word of mouth among the casuals isn't kind to the Brewers in any way. Now even some of the media is joining in on the bashing. Many rush to the defense of this organization but those defenses look poorly founded. They botched this pretty bad.

[wiguy94]

18 minutes ago, brewcrewdue80 said:

Adam McCalvy really forcing the issue by narrating his question with essentially there needs to be bad blood over this right Corbin?  Then posts the added Brewers offered a 2year deal that Corbin says was pretty poor.  Based on the 10.1M and what goes to I guess 18M next season if that?  What's a pretty poor offer? 2/26M or lower?  What's Milwaukee supposed to do just give him more money than what Arb is going to stick to him next season?  2/28Mil?  They pay him 2/30 and he's overpaid vs what Arb is going to reward him.  I guess where he could call out the Brewers would be that they couldn't work out a number in between for this season.  Like 10.35-10.4M.   If Burnes held out for the Arb and didn't take that offer then it's on him and his agent for being greedy and affecting the future players' values.

I doubt Burnes wanted to settle. I think he wanted to set the precedent for top arb-2 SP. 

[brooks_quichenick]

2 minutes ago, MVP2110 said:

I'm rooting for the Brewers, I don't really care who wins arb cases or CBAs or anything along those lines. One could make the argument that the Brewers "nickel and dimed" Burnes or they could make the argument that Corbin got greedy and pushed for a salary above what the precedent has been set at. It's clear an independent arbitrator agreed with the Brewers in this instance. I don't fault Corbin for trying to get what he felt he deserved and I don't fault the Brewers for doing what all 30 MLB teams do, it is literally what the system is designed for. And if you have an issue with the system then you should be mad at the players because this was their system that they fought to have.

The players have been fighting an uphill battle since day 1 of this sport. They've greatly improved their position through the MLBPA and collective bargaining, but let's not pretend that ownership doesn't still have an upper hand. The arbitration process was an improvement when it was first implemented, but at this point it is antiquated and needs serious revision. I'm not going to be mad at the players for collectively forcing MLB's hand almost 50 years ago now.

 

[damuelle]

After Hader lost an arbitration case, the relationship was strained and he became a one inning guy (almost exclusively for save opportunities), which was less valuable to the club than a 2-inning fireman role, in my opinion.

What’s in store for Burnes? Throw 80 pitches every 6th day?

[Brewcrew82]

3 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

I doubt Burnes wanted to settle. I think he wanted to set the precedent for top arb-2 SP. 

Probably. It's just the badmouthing him and outright blaming of him for us missing the playoffs last season that's a bridge too far imo. I really hope this is as far as it goes, and Corbin proceeds to channel his frustrations into another Cy Young-caliber season. 

[MVP2110]

4 minutes ago, brooks_quichenick said:

The players have been fighting an uphill battle since day 1 of this sport. They've greatly improved their position through the MLBPA and collective bargaining, but let's not pretend that ownership doesn't still have an upper hand. The arbitration process was an improvement when it was first implemented, but at this point it is antiquated and needs serious revision. I'm not going to be mad at the players for collectively forcing MLB's hand almost 50 years ago now.

 

That's fine, and the players could fight for a different system during CBA talks if they want but they haven't done so(atleast in a serious way). You clearly have a bias towards the players and that's your prerogative. But until the system is changed this will happen over and over again, this isn't a Brewer specific problem or a Corbin Burnes issue, it is a system issue and the league and players are just playing within the rules that are setup

[brooks_quichenick]

1 minute ago, MVP2110 said:

You clearly have a bias towards the players and that's your prerogative.

Of course I do. I'm a baseball fan, I'm not rooting for billionaires' profit margins.

[wiguy94]

9 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Probably. It's just the badmouthing him and outright blaming of him for us missing the playoffs last season that's a bridge too far imo. I really hope this is as far as it goes, and Corbin proceeds to channel his frustrations into another Cy Young-caliber season. 

You’re also taking everything Burnes said at face value and assuming his side is the total truth. 
 

If the Brewers said Burnes 3.97 ERA post all-star game was a contributing factor in them not making the playoffs, would you disagree with it? If Burnes continues pitching how he did pre all-star game then we probably would have made the playoffs over the Phillies. 
 

I’m sure that was what was said but Burnes is dressing it up saying that they said he was the biggest issue not just part of the overall issue. 

[homer]

9 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Probably. It's just the badmouthing him and outright blaming of him for us missing the playoffs last season that's a bridge too far imo. I really hope this is as far as it goes, and Corbin proceeds to channel his frustrations into another Cy Young-caliber season. 

Did they do that publicly? That was just in the arbitration hearing right? That is par for the course. 

[brewcrewdue80]

7 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Probably. It's just the badmouthing him and outright blaming of him for us missing the playoffs last season that's a bridge too far imo. I really hope this is as far as it goes, and Corbin proceeds to channel his frustrations into another Cy Young-caliber season. 

Do you have a link where they bad-mouthed him this way?

I keep seeing badmouthed here and I'd like this posted.

Burnes in that interview said there were some things said about him that didn't need to be said. But if someone is presenting their case and hope to win, yes it just may need to be said.  

So where's this blame the Brewers outright didn't make the playoffs because of him?

[DR28]

What a ******* joke… I really hate our FO sometimes.

 

[jerichoholicninja]

 

Lot of people having fun playing this game I see.

[MVP2110]

12 minutes ago, brooks_quichenick said:

Of course I do. I'm a baseball fan, I'm not rooting for billionaires' profit margins.

And that's perfectly fine, people can root for whichever side they choose to root for. I personally root for the Brewers and could care less which side wins things like arb cases or CBA disputes. I was just trying to clarify what the system is designed to do. If you want to somehow blame Mark A and the front office for going through a system that the players initially proposed and have never seriously fought to change then idk what to tell you 

[wiguy94]

9 minutes ago, brewcrewdue80 said:

Do you have a link where they bad-mouthed him this way?

I keep seeing badmouthed here and I'd like this posted.

Burnes in that interview said there were some things said about him that didn't need to be said. But if someone is presenting their case and hope to win, yes it just may need to be said.  

So where's this blame the Brewers outright didn't make the playoffs because of him?

Burnes said in the Mccalvy interview that the Brewers “put him at the forefront” for reasons they didn’t make the playoffs. 
 

I think Burnes is playing this up quite a bit because I highly doubt the Brewers put Burnes “at the forefront” for any of their problems.

[Brewcrew82]

15 minutes ago, homer said:

Did they do that publicly? That was just in the arbitration hearing right? That is par for the course. 

No not publicly. In the arbitration hearing. But still insulting and so unnecessary being said outright to your best player. 

[Jopal78]

33 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Probably. It's just the badmouthing him and outright blaming of him for us missing the playoffs last season that's a bridge too far imo. I really hope this is as far as it goes, and Corbin proceeds to channel his frustrations into another Cy Young-caliber season. 

I mean they have to make a persuasive argument, at the hearing, to the panel in support of their offer of less money. How you do that without being critical of the player "bad mouthing" is beyond me. If a team cannot talk about their players critically, then there is no point to going to a hearing in the first place. 

[Brewcrew82]

20 minutes ago, wiguy94 said:

You’re also taking everything Burnes said at face value and assuming his side is the total truth. 
 

If the Brewers said Burnes 3.97 ERA post all-star game was a contributing factor in them not making the playoffs, would you disagree with it? If Burnes continues pitching how he did pre all-star game then we probably would have made the playoffs over the Phillies. 
 

I’m sure that was what was said but Burnes is dressing it up saying that they said he was the biggest issue not just part of the overall issue. 

Of course, Burnes may be playing things up a bit as he's clearly frustrated with how the process played out. But the fact of the matter is that Corbin was the biggest reason why we were in postseason contention to begin with given how injuries decimated the rest of our pitching staff. It shouldn't have been said, because it's a ridiculous notion. There were a dozen bigger contributing factors to why we missed the playoffs, whereas Corbin's performance on the season as whole was probably the biggest reason we finished as close as we did.