Club wins Burnes' arbitration case (source)

[Brewermania101]

https://www.mlb.com/brewers/news/corbin-burnes-loses-arbitration-case-with-brewers

 

“He means a ton to our team and regardless of the outcome, we want to treat our players exceptionally well,” Brewers GM Matt Arnold said Wednesday afternoon as the sides awaited a ruling. “Corbin has been a leader for our franchise. He has been a pillar for the community. He has done everything you could possibly ask and beyond.

 

 

Are you kidding me. Both sides negotiated  till the  deadline assuming they must have known each sides numbers.  So for a $740,000 difference you going to upset a top 3 player on the  

team. ( I understand finances can be tight when settling numbers overall , but a top 3 player on the team over that amount ?????) 

If he is a leader of the team as Arnold stated above. Then way to show the clubhouse how you will treat one of the best players on the team and leader let alone them over such a small amount in the grand scheme of things.  To verbal dress him down in an arby hearing (where he is sitting right there)  over less than a million difference???

Goodluck having him take a club friendly pay structure deal with salary deferments.

If I were Corbin, I'd tell the Brewers to pound sand on any future extensions unless they paid top starter price, play out my arby years waiting to be traded or get out  ASAP afterwards

[wiguy94]

Why are you under the assumption Corbin would have ever accepted a club friendly pay structure? You are also making a huge assumption that the Brewers "verbal dressed him down in an arby hearing". 

The Atlanta Braves immediately following a WS last year went to arbitration with their ace Max Fried over $200K. This isn't the Brewers disrespecting Burnes. This is just how the arb process works. Honestly seeing the Brewers fan reaction to this has been exhausting. 

 

[MVP2110]

It shouldn't be a surprise that the Brewers won their arb case vs Burnes. The MKE Tailgate guys laid this out on their pod a few weeks ago in good detail. The key thing to remember here is that arbitration isn't just specific player vs specific team but rather every player vs every team. The Brewers put in 10.01 mil because that's exactly what Shane Bieber got in a nearly identical situation to the current Burnes case. There is immense pressure from other MLB teams to not set new precedents as those will compound across the sport and end up costing all 30 teams millions, in fact before teams send their proposals to the specific player all 29 teams in MLB get to see that proposal first. The arb system sucks, obviously Corbin deserves more than $10.01 mil, but it's a system that the players originally fought for and won and it isn't going anywhere anytime soon. 

[brewmann04]

Now it only time before the we hear the Brewers are going to move Burnes because they can;t afford him like they did with Hader.

[Brock Beauchamp]

44 minutes ago, MVP2110 said:

It shouldn't be a surprise that the Brewers won their arb case vs Burnes. The MKE Tailgate guys laid this out on their pod a few weeks ago in good detail. The key thing to remember here is that arbitration isn't just specific player vs specific team but rather every player vs every team. The Brewers put in 10.01 mil because that's exactly what Shane Bieber got in a nearly identical situation to the current Burnes case. There is immense pressure from other MLB teams to not set new precedents as those will compound across the sport and end up costing all 30 teams millions, in fact before teams send their proposals to the specific player all 29 teams in MLB get to see that proposal first. The arb system sucks, obviously Corbin deserves more than $10.01 mil, but it's a system that the players originally fought for and won and it isn't going anywhere anytime soon. 

All of this. Arbitration is archaic and complicated. I doubt there are many hurt feelings about this given that both sides are fully aware of how the system works.

Its a dumb system but it’s the system we have. 

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

6 hours ago, Brewermania101 said:

https://www.mlb.com/brewers/news/corbin-burnes-loses-arbitration-case-with-brewers

 

“He means a ton to our team and regardless of the outcome, we want to treat our players exceptionally well,” Brewers GM Matt Arnold said Wednesday afternoon as the sides awaited a ruling. “Corbin has been a leader for our franchise. He has been a pillar for the community. He has done everything you could possibly ask and beyond.

 

 

Are you kidding me. Both sides negotiated  till the  deadline assuming they must have known each sides numbers.  So for a $740,000 difference you going to upset a top 3 player on the  

team. ( I understand finances can be tight when settling numbers overall , but a top 3 player on the team over that amount ?????) 

If he is a leader of the team as Arnold stated above. Then way to show the clubhouse how you will treat one of the best players on the team and leader let alone them over such a small amount in the grand scheme of things.  To verbal dress him down in an arby hearing (where he is sitting right there)  over less than a million difference???

Goodluck having him take a club friendly pay structure deal with salary deferments.

If I were Corbin, I'd tell the Brewers to pound sand on any future extensions unless they paid top starter price, play out my arby years waiting to be traded or get out  ASAP afterwards

The arbitration process sucks. But it is what it is. The Brewers are not shafting Burnes. It's simply the way the system works.

[Hacksaw Jim Duggan]

3 hours ago, wiguy94 said:

Why are you under the assumption Corbin would have ever accepted a club friendly pay structure? You are also making a huge assumption that the Brewers "verbal dressed him down in an arby hearing". 

The Atlanta Braves immediately following a WS last year went to arbitration with their ace Max Fried over $200K. This isn't the Brewers disrespecting Burnes. This is just how the arb process works. Honestly seeing the Brewers fan reaction to this has been exhausting. 

Lots of fans are of the opinion that money grows on trees and everyone should always get what he/she wants.  The Brewers are in financial straights given an impending bankruptcy and there are fans who are oblivious and think the Brewers should be spending hundreds of millions of dollars.

[areacodes]

44 minutes ago, brewmann04 said:

Now it only time before the we hear the Brewers are going to move Burnes because they can;t afford him like they did with Hader.

Now?  We’ve been talking about when we’ll need to move Burnes or let him walk due to cost since before he won the Cy Young.

[MVP2110]

Burnes was never going to extend with us, this 750k has nothing to do with it. Burnes might get the largest deal ever for a pitcher and the Brewers were never going to give that out

[CheeseheadInQC]

2 hours ago, MVP2110 said:

It shouldn't be a surprise that the Brewers won their arb case vs Burnes. The MKE Tailgate guys laid this out on their pod a few weeks ago in good detail. The key thing to remember here is that arbitration isn't just specific player vs specific team but rather every player vs every team. The Brewers put in 10.01 mil because that's exactly what Shane Bieber got in a nearly identical situation to the current Burnes case. There is immense pressure from other MLB teams to not set new precedents as those will compound across the sport and end up costing all 30 teams millions, in fact before teams send their proposals to the specific player all 29 teams in MLB get to see that proposal first. The arb system sucks, obviously Corbin deserves more than $10.01 mil, but it's a system that the players originally fought for and won and it isn't going anywhere anytime soon. 

It works both ways, and it wouldn’t shock me if Burnes and his agent were under pressure to set a new precedent. Like everyone said, the system sucks but no one can agree on an alternative.

[MVP2110]

7 minutes ago, CheeseheadInQC said:

It works both ways, and it wouldn’t shock me if Burnes and his agent were under pressure to set a new precedent. Like everyone said, the system sucks but no one can agree on an alternative.

Absolutely it does. I forget which article I read it in but it talked about how players in general were asking for more this year in arbitration in an attempt to push up precedents for everyone.

[Outlander]

Burnes losing in arbitration seems to have gotten a lot of attention beyond Brewers boards like here. For the most part I think posters here know Burnes time here is coming to an end but for other more casual fans it seems like they are now first coming to the realization that the end is near for Burnes and the Brewers. The $750,000 wasn't going to change anything.

[monty57]

This just showcases what we all know. Burnes is a fantastic pitcher who is worth a lot of money, and he is going to try to maximize his earnings which is well within his rights as a person and a player.

As long as he stays healthy and performs to the level he has been at for several years, he will get one of the largest contracts an MLB pitcher has ever received. The Brewers will not be the team giving him that contract, so they have to determine how to get the most value from Burnes. 

I look forward to seeing him pitch for the Brewers this year, and I hope they are able to get a king's ransom in return when they trade him away next offseason. It's a business for both sides, so it's best not to get too emotional over any one player. 

[homer]

37 minutes ago, MVP2110 said:

Absolutely it does. I forget which article I read it in but it talked about how players in general were asking for more this year in arbitration in an attempt to push up precedents for everyone.

I think in years past, they would meet in the middle. So the players would ask for more so the "middle" would be more. I can't blame the players for that. System is screwy.

[jerichoholicninja]

I love/hate watching all the Brewer fans freaking out over how this will make Burnes not want to resign here. As if 1) this has never happened to any other player on any other team in the history of baseball and 2) there was even a snowball's chance in hades he was going to resign here anyway.

[MrTPlush]

I am probably on an island, but I like the arbitration system. Not sure how you really could do something better, that both sides would realistically accept. 

It gives teams a few years for the player to prove themselves. Which does a pretty good job making sure guys don't get overpaid too early in arby. Then the player gets steady raises for 3-4 years. It is great for players because the system is able to follow baseball salaries and trends in real time. So the system is consistent and fair from CBA start to end. 

It is basically a rookie contract based on performance the first 6 years instead of based on draft position like other leagues. The only problem is when it takes a guy till he is 27+ to become an established MLB player...then arbitration eats into your 30s. But those cases aren't overly common and that's on you for taking so long.

 

[Jopal78]

6 minutes ago, MrTPlush said:

I am probably on an island, but I like the arbitration system. Not sure how you really could do something better, that both sides would realistically accept. 

It gives teams a few years for the player to prove themselves. Which does a pretty good job making sure guys don't get overpaid too early in arby. Then the player gets steady raises for 3-4 years. It is great for players because the system is able to follow baseball salaries and trends in real time. So the system is consistent and fair from CBA start to end. 

It is basically a rookie contract based on performance the first 6 years instead of based on draft position like other leagues. The only problem is when it takes a guy till he is 27+ to become an established MLB player...then arbitration eats into your 30s. But those cases aren't overly common and that's on you for taking so long.

 

That's right, and I'd add the only players who really complain are those who feel they got jobbed in the process by not getting a large of a raise as they wanted,. To be sure those same players are but a handful out of those who are arbitration eligible. 

Anyone think Hiura is upset that his salary increased nearly triple fold, despite being a part time player with mediocre numbers? Rowdy Tellez's production in '22 took a step back from his run with the Brewers in '21 yet his pay doubled anyways. 

[Thurston Fluff]

30 minutes ago, MrTPlush said:

I am probably on an island, but I like the arbitration system. Not sure how you really could do something better, that both sides would realistically accept. 

It gives teams a few years for the player to prove themselves. Which does a pretty good job making sure guys don't get overpaid too early in arby. Then the player gets steady raises for 3-4 years. It is great for players because the system is able to follow baseball salaries and trends in real time. So the system is consistent and fair from CBA start to end. 

It is basically a rookie contract based on performance the first 6 years instead of based on draft position like other leagues. The only problem is when it takes a guy till he is 27+ to become an established MLB player...then arbitration eats into your 30s. But those cases aren't overly common and that's on you for taking so long.

 

You're not alone. It's not perfect but it works well enough in a league without a salary cap and minimal revenue sharing. The only bad thing about it is the team is sort of forced to trash the player in the hearing.

[monty57]

7 minutes ago, Thurston Fluff said:

You're not alone. It's not perfect but it works well enough in a league without a salary cap and minimal revenue sharing. The only bad thing about it is the team is sort of forced to trash the player in the hearing.

That and it still uses "antiquated" methods of determining value. For instance, wins and saves are very important in arbitration. They could keep the system while updating the valuation matrices, but that would probably have to be done through the CBA, and it's probably not high on either side's list.

[homer]

6 minutes ago, monty57 said:

That and it still uses "antiquated" methods of determining value. For instance, wins and saves are very important in arbitration. They could keep the system while updating the valuation matrices, but that would probably have to be done through the CBA, and it's probably not high on either side's list.

Yeah that's partly why Hader only wanted to pitch the 9th. 

[Matt]

Yikes.

[markedman5]

 

[jerichoholicninja]

4 minutes ago, Matt said:

Yikes.

Meh, whatever. He can pout about it or go and pitch like he deserves the half a billion dollars he's going to be getting in a couple years.

[wibadgers23]

The Brewers look really, really stupid right now.  Taking your best player to a hearing over $750K and then bad-mouthing him during the hearing and saying he was one of the reasons they didn't make the postseason.  This is just a horrible look for management.  

[MVP2110]

2 minutes ago, wibadgers23 said:

The Brewers look really, really stupid right now.  Taking your best player to a hearing over $750K and then bad-mouthing him during the hearing and saying he was one of the reasons they didn't make the postseason.  This is just a horrible look for management.  

As explained earlier this isn't just over 750k, the precedent would cost owners millions in the long run. It's also worth noting MLB teams often hire outside lawyers to make the case for them so the team doesn't actually have to bad mouth the player. The system sucks and often leads to feelings getting hurt, there really isn't a way around that