Guess who made MLB.com's All-Underrated Team?

[clancyphile]

As if we didn't want to turn up the heat for some hot stove discussion, the center fielder for the All-Underrated Team is...

Tyrone Taylor.

https://www.mlb.com/news/mlb-all-underrated-team-2023

Quote

So why highlight Taylor here? Well, because, when you add it all up, his .748 OPS over the last two seasons is identical to that of recent, touted Toronto trade acquisition Daulton Varsho. Taylor logged that while playing a majority of his innings in center field, where last season he was worth the same number of OAA (5) as 2021 Gold Glove winner Michael A. Taylor. The Brewers’ Taylor also rated in the 80th percentile in sprint speed last year.

 

[DR28]

I'm not surprised... TT is gonna have a breakout season in 23 playing every day.... Everyday RF, while moving to CF vs LHP.

[Jake McKibbin]

13 minutes ago, DR28 said:

I'm not surprised... TT is gonna have a breakout season in 23 playing every day.... Everyday RF, while moving to CF vs LHP.

I think if he maintains those numbers he'll be very happy. I'd say currently he's maximising his potential, I certainly didn't expect him to be THAT good defensively in CF but it was great to watch

He was however in the 33rd and 34th percentile for average exit velocity and hard hit rate, and none of his background number really scream a breakout. He does have a good barrel rate, but I'd say that's more indicative of him having a good average launch angle (16.9 degrees last season) and just a 38% ground ball rate.

Still he's a valuable player, especially against lefties and with his + defense. His expected stats would've produced a .236/.300/.412 which is very serviceable.

It'll be interesting to see if there's something behind the monthly form mentioned in the article, but I can't really investigate that too closely other than saying small sample sizes and a streaky player

[MrTPlush]

He is a nice 4th OF...but that is about all I would want him to be. Doesn't know what a walk is, his favorite letter is 'K', and he tries to either trot around the bases or go back to the dugout when he is batting.

It is like Wily Adames, but way less talented. 

[Brewin]

I just don't see it with TT as an everyday player. The guys a solid 4th OFer but not an above average player IMO

I know some of the defensive metrics like his defense, but to me is average, at best

[DR28]

If TT isnt in RF everyday, then who is? Won't be Frelick, he said he'll be in AAA to start the year.

Pretty sure we didnt sign Anderson to be our RF, unless they plan to go with Anderson in RF, Urias at 3B and Turang at 2B... But Anderson was told he'll be at 3B more than RF.

So has to be Taylor in RF.

[Brock Beauchamp]

A fair choice for the list, as I personally have a tendency to undervalue Taylor. He's a really nice swingman in the outfield.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

14 minutes ago, DR28 said:

If TT isnt in RF everyday, then who is? Won't be Frelick, he said he'll be in AAA to start the year.

Pretty sure we didnt sign Anderson to be our RF, unless they plan to go with Anderson in RF, Urias at 3B and Turang at 2B... But Anderson was told he'll be at 3B more than RF.

So has to be Taylor in RF.

I think this will be the case, at least to start the year, unless they are planning on giving Winker more time in the OF than anyone is expecting.

[MrTPlush]

43 minutes ago, Brewin said:

I just don't see it with TT as an everyday player. 

I mean, I am sure he will be. I don't think the Brewers really want him starting nor do I think they plan on him doing so very long. The Brewers are probably like most fans and plan on Mitchell/Frelick manning CF/RF a matter of weeks into the season. 

If one of Mitchell/Frelick suck...Taylor isn't the worst emergency starter to have. They could find someone else at the deadline if need be. 

[DR28]

41 minutes ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

I think this will be the case, at least to start the year, unless they are planning on giving Winker more time in the OF than anyone is expecting.

Agreed, with the Anderson acquisition I see both Frelick and Turang both starting in Nashville.

Yelich - LF

Adames - SS

Winker - DH

Contreras - C

Tellez - 1B

Urias - 2B

Anderson - 3B

Taylor - RF

Mitchell - CF

[DR28]

17 minutes ago, MrTPlush said:

I mean, I am sure he will be. I don't think the Brewers really want him starting nor do I think they plan on him doing so very long. The Brewers are probably like most fans and plan on Mitchell/Frelick manning CF/RF a matter of weeks into the season. 

If one of Mitchell/Frelick suck...Taylor isn't the worst emergency starter to have. They could find someone else at the deadline if need be. 

Does Frelick have the arm for RF tho? I thought his arm isnt strong.

[Brock Beauchamp]

48 minutes ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

I think this will be the case, at least to start the year, unless they are planning on giving Winker more time in the OF than anyone is expecting.

I really hope this isn't the case. I don't see much upside in giving Winker OF reps when Mitchell, Taylor, and Frelick are options.

[Brock Beauchamp]

5 minutes ago, DR28 said:

Does Frelick have the arm for RF tho? I thought his arm isnt strong.

I think the CF range will more than offset any potential arm weakness. Arm just doesn't play into RF all that often while range is consistently tested.

Obviously, you want a guy with a good arm to throw to third but I'd rank it a far distant second to speed and range.

[MrTPlush]

8 minutes ago, DR28 said:

Does Frelick have the arm for RF tho? I thought his arm isnt strong.

Could always flip them if that is the concern as Mitchell has a strong arm. 

[MrTPlush]

4 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

I think the CF range will more than offset any potential arm weakness. Arm just doesn't play into RF all that often while range is consistently tested.

Obviously, you want a guy with a good arm to throw to third but I'd rank it a far distant second to speed and range.

Getting an out and guy advances to third > Guy gaps it and a run scores. 

A strong arm is nice...but I think it gets overrated how many of those situations really exist where a difference would be made. Many guys have a strong arm and a have the accuracy of a 10 year old. Then a lot of the deficiency is offset when a team runs on them and get out. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

1 minute ago, MrTPlush said:

Getting an out and guy advances to third > Guy gaps it and a run scores. 

Exactly.

[sveumrules]

Since 2020 Tyrone’s 3.6 WAR ranks 61st among OF ahead of Conforto (3.5), Haniger (3.3), Profar (3.1), Castellanos (3.0), Avisail (2.8), Joc (2.2), Bellinger (2.1), etc.

Considering all those guys (minus Jurickson) are making $13M+ and they all (minus Conforto) needed hundreds more PAs to accrue their WAR, I’d say TT is an incredible value at less than $1M still.

The Varsho comp is an interesting one, looking at 2020-22 they are pretty even in wRC+ (104 vs 101), TT slugs more (131 vs 123 ISO+), DV walks more (98 vs 70 BB%+), they strike out about the same (105 vs 106 K%+).

Both hit the ball in the air a lot (120 vs 119 FB%+) with TT being more all fields at 106 Pull+ | 100 Mid+ | 89 Oppo+ vs DV being more of a dead pull hitter at 117 Pull+ | 94 Mid+ | 80 Oppo+.

Main advantages for DV are being three years younger, being catcher capable, better on the bases (+8.3 vs +1.5 BSR) and being a notch above as an outfielder at +26 DRS | +26.4 UZR | +23 OAA compared to +14 DRS | +7.5 UZR | +11 OAA for TT. 

[brewcrewdue80]

3 hours ago, DR28 said:

I'm not surprised... TT is gonna have a breakout season in 23 playing every day.... Everyday RF, while moving to CF vs LHP.

.206/.264/.404 was Taylor's split vs LH SPs last season.   .217/.270/.410 vs LH SP for his career.  He's done better vs. LH relievers. 4th or even 5th OF not a Starter over a full season.

[umphrey]

I'm hoping he can find a way to boost his obp a little bit. I see him as an every day starter for a team that finishes 3rd in their division. So either he needs to improve a bit or the Brewers are going to be chasing an upgrade. 

[DR28]

For those that dont believe in TT, make more sense to roll with Anderson in RF, Urias at 3B and Turang at 2B? Thus pushing TT to that 4th OF role.

[Thurston Fluff]

It's really easy to like Taylor. He's done a lot with the talent he has and made himself into a legit major league player. If I'm being honest though if TT is your fourth outfielder you have a pretty good outfield. If he's your starter you should probably be looking for an upgrade.

[wiguy94]

1 hour ago, umphrey said:

I'm hoping he can find a way to boost his obp a little bit. I see him as an every day starter for a team that finishes 3rd in their division. So either he needs to improve a bit or the Brewers are going to be chasing an upgrade. 

The best hope for the OBP to improve is the articles saying Taylor will be one of the biggest beneficiaries of the shift ban are correct. He's just never going to be a guy with a good walk rate, so the only way to improve the OBP will be through improving the BA.

[monty57]

I was always a proponent of giving Taylor a chance to start. Then last year happened and he got his chance to start, only to post a 58 wRC+ in 24 games in June, got hurt in July (130 wRC+, but only played in 9 games), and then posted a 67 wRC+ in 23 games in August, which had people hoping for a call-up of one of the prospects. After Mitchell got called up, Taylor posted a 151 wRC+ in Sept/Oct.

It very well could be a small-sample anomaly, but in the one chance he had as a starter he didn't do well (at least at the plate). His career numbers still look like he should be a capable starter, and I think he'll get the starting nod in RF this year. I don't think it'll be a long-term gig, as the Brewers are probably just going to keep Frelick down long enough to gain another year's service time, at which point Taylor will go back to being the primary backup at all three OF positions, which will still net him a decent number of PAs.

I hope he does great, as that would help the Brewers regardless of their plans for him. Last year just left a bad taste in my mouth, and has me believing he's probably best suited as a 4th OF. I really want him to prove me wrong.

[clancyphile]

6 hours ago, monty57 said:

I was always a proponent of giving Taylor a chance to start. Then last year happened and he got his chance to start, only to post a 58 wRC+ in 24 games in June, got hurt in July (130 wRC+, but only played in 9 games), and then posted a 67 wRC+ in 23 games in August, which had people hoping for a call-up of one of the prospects. After Mitchell got called up, Taylor posted a 151 wRC+ in Sept/Oct.

It very well could be a small-sample anomaly, but in the one chance he had as a starter he didn't do well (at least at the plate). His career numbers still look like he should be a capable starter, and I think he'll get the starting nod in RF this year. I don't think it'll be a long-term gig, as the Brewers are probably just going to keep Frelick down long enough to gain another year's service time, at which point Taylor will go back to being the primary backup at all three OF positions, which will still net him a decent number of PAs.

I hope he does great, as that would help the Brewers regardless of their plans for him. Last year just left a bad taste in my mouth, and has me believing he's probably best suited as a 4th OF. I really want him to prove me wrong.

Taylor is only 29 years old, and his power rate went up from 2021 to 2022. So, could he really put things together? Not outside the realm of possibility, and in some ways, he did heat up at the end of the 2022 season. Also, over his career, he's hit better as a RF than a CF (https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.fcgi?id=tayloty01&year=Career&t=b), although his career performance in center isn't too shabby.

[MrTPlush]

In a land long long ago, Tyrone Taylor was our #2 prospect for two years straight.