Brewerfan.net martyrdom?

[Ralph Wiggum]

After reading through last night's game thread, I feel like poking my eyes out with a shish-kabob skewer. Among the typical IGT posts, including "Go 'Lil Ben" and "Prince definitely doesn't suck" was the return of a certain Mr. Negativity, who had seemingly made like "Joey" and went into hiatus during this past winning streak. However, as Benny began getting shelled, there was our favorite poster, ready to annoit Chris Capuano as the staff savior, and vehimently defending his stance to anyone who questioned it.

 

I'm all for freedom of speech, but there are a few posters here who have been given multiple chances to clean up their acts, and they have refused. When questioned, they continue to repeat that they are standing up for the realist. That argument only goes so far...

[Brian the Automator]

I'm just against posters with agendas. If people don't take an even-handed approach to posting, their credibility is zero, and it results in beating topics to death.

[SenatorShriv]

Brian

 

I encourage you to start banning people like this more frequently. It adds way too much time and stress to the lives of the moderators, and annoys the heck out of everyone else.

 

Brewerfan would be much better off with a shorter leash on combative posters. It would free up the staff to spend more time talking baseball (that's what you guys are best at) and allows the website to avoid being cluttered up with a bunch of garbage.

 

I admire your restraint, but it has grown into a problem.

 

Who cares if there are a handful of people out there in cyber space who have grudges against this place. I couldn't see it doing much damage to the overall popularity of the place.

[Brian the Automator]

[ Who cares if there are a handful of people out there in cyber space who have grudges against this place. ]

 

Hey, you're not the guy they email constantly. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[valpocrewsader]

The poster in question does nothing wrong. He is overly-passionate about the Brewers. He expects a win every day. He's super hard on Brewer players when they look awful.

 

98% of us might think it's ridiculous to say something like "Cappy is the new ace, no doubt about it" at this point of the season. It's still just someone's opinion.

 

Generally, I'm more disappointed in the responses (quantity and quality) to said poster than I am to the poster himself. I went back and looked at the evolution of the thread. The senseless drama starts with him posting his reasoned opinions (be them unpopular) about wins being more important than ERA, and quickly turns into him being insulted, ganged up on, and having his fandom questioned.

 

You're trying to reach out to casual fans to turn them into die-hard fans? Maybe no one here knows what it's like to be a casual fan anymore. Some casual fans are going to get mad and reactionary when the team loses or a player looks bad. That calm notion of "marathon-not-sprint" and stat-based, long-term evaluation isn't there.

 

Looking back at the IGT, I think there's a better way to talk to a guy who's obviously a huge Brewer fan but is just frustrated with and reactionary to the team's perforamance that night. I think the other posters failed by calling him out and forcing him to be defensive rather than just openly discussing his opinions with an open mind (or ignoring his thoughts altogether).

 

And I really don't care if he posts only on losing days. So what if on winning days he's happy and doesn't feel like typing at a computer with trivial, "go team!" thoughts, but on losing days he's ticked and feels like venting about how bad he thinks a player is? How can you tell a guy how to live his life? "Please log on to this site and post both on winning days and losing days, not just losing days."

 

My 45 cents...

[Brian the Automator]

[ He expects a win every day. ]

 

I think this is the key phrase. No team goes 162-0. As a result, I hope expectations of fans would reflect that. Knee-jerk reactionism leads to really bad conversation.

[brewers19]

Generally, I'm more disappointed in the responses (quantity and quality) to said poster than I am to the poster himself. I went back and looked at the evolution of the thread.

 

It streches back farther than the beginning of the thread though. He is responsible for his own credibility (or some may argue the lack thereof) through what he has posted in the past. It's not like he's some innocent first-time poster who suggests an unpopular idea and gets ganged up on. He has a history of this crap and people are fed up with it.

He's made his bed, and it's not unreasonable that others demand that he lie in it.

[brewerjamie15]

What would happen if I started to post only negative points about the Brewers from now on?

 

With our increasing membership brings more personalities and more views that may differ from your own. I agree, some people only post negative things. Such is life. It was brought up in the IGT that "untill you start showing up for wins too, you have no credibility here." Sorry, but that's a load of trash and I can not stand an attitude like that.

 

Just because someone only posts when things are bad does not make him/her unwanted. I'm not defending bucksman, I am however defending an idea. I'm defending the idea that everyone here has a right to say what they want and should not fear harsh judgement.

 

Let's for a minute pretend that any one at all came down the lane and just said things he thought should be improved with the team. Is he/she no longer wanted around here?

 

I would like to commend bucksman for his willingness to stick to his guns with his debate, no matter how easily defeatable his points were.

 

In that IGT bucksman -did- come along and state his opinions, took on the counterpoints and tried to answer them. He never took a shot at anyone to that point, but was fired upon be several. I think that is rather sad. That's not what this site is about.

 

I'd like to ask that if you feel someone is so horrid that they are just looking for trouble you inbox a moderator and state your case. I'd also ask that we all refrain from getting childish and sticking our tongues out at eachother. If someone bugs you, do not give them the satisfaction of showing it. Ignore them.

[Brian the Automator]

[ I'm defending the idea that everyone here has a right to say what they want and should not fear harsh judgement. ]

 

Sounds anti-American of me, but they DON'T have a right to say what they want when a privately owned site requests it of them.

 

Now, i'm not saying that certain types of opinions should censored, but when you have a guy who only comes in during losses and spouts off about how horrible the team is, that's disingenous. I'm certainly not insisting that you must have a 1:1 ratio of positive:negative opinions, but when you have a guy coming in only when things are bad, saying "See? See?", that's gutless.

[mothershipconnection]

Brian, I got your back homie.

If people want a site where they can discuss the Brewers with absolutely no censorship and permission for all posts and ideas to be shared, they can start their own. That's what EZBoard is for.

[Team Canada]

I would like to commend bucksman for his willingness to stick to his guns with his debate, no matter how easily defeatable his points were.

 

Sticking to your guns at all costs is a recipe for looking like a fool.

 

Unless you know everything, then you're safe.

 

 

If someone bugs you, do not give them the satisfaction of showing it. Ignore them.

 

I *would* actually like to see this tried.

[Brian the Automator]

[ I *would* actually like to see this tried. ]

 

The problem with ignoring someone is that it really only works if everyone ignores them... and even that takes time.

[mothershipconnection]

Intermittent reinforcement makes a behavior more resistant to extinction than reinforcing every response. Thus, an occasional response to trolling is more poweful than attending to every stupid comment.

[dadofandrew]

Why doesn't he just write a blog? He can write whatever crap he wants, and no one will read it...and I speak from experience.

[SenatorShriv]

This was my post in the other thread about Cappy v Sheets... I'll post it here too. Note that I'm only apologizing if his intentions are not to be a troll.

 

Bucksman:

 

I apologize for calling your arguments stupid, accusing you of being a troll, implying that Brian should consider banning posters like yourself. Again I am sorry.

 

Valpo and a couple of others made it clear that I was ganging up on you and participating in the some of the arrogance that I used to hate that was associated with this site.

 

I guess I was seemingly under the wrong impression of your intentions. I have seen several users over the years who come to brewerfan simply to cause fights and instigate bickering. Apparently they get enjoyment out of riling people up over the internet. Although part of me does giggle at the thought of all these "cyber geeks" bickering on some fansite for the Milwaukee Brewers, overall I've always found it childish and annoying.

 

If those were not your intentions, I am sorry that I jumped to a conclusion about you.

 

I'll let the moderators handle calling activity like this out and dealing with it in the future.

[mothershipconnection]

Why doesn't he just write a blog? He can write whatever crap he wants, and no one will read it...and I speak from experience.

I did just that after Brewerfan did away with political discourse. The scary thing is, sometimes I get 15 hits a day, which seems like way more than it deserves.

[Brian the Automator]

[ I apologize for calling your arguments stupid, accusing you of being a troll, implying that Brian should consider banning posters like yourself. Again I am sorry. ]

 

Yeah, I should have probably handled it a little better myself. I just want to see everyone take an even-handed approach to posting. I think people take comments more seriously if they think you're willing to "eat your own dog food".

[strawbossisevil]

Quote:

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Who are you, just take the comments and move on respect is earned not given.

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Quote:

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Be a man who cares what you said if people are that sensitive to comments they should not be in the chat rooms. Who cares if someone rips you welcome to free speech. If you want to make fun of someone make fun of me because I dont care

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This is taken from today's game thread. I really think this attitude needs to end. You respect people on this site, you don't talk down to people because they "haven't earned your respect." People acting in this way really stir things up far more then they ought to be. Yeah negativity and trollish behavior is a definite problem. But threating one another like trash seems far worse. Respect the rules of the board. If people want to talk down to others and treat others with disrespect there are boards where that is permitted (MB.com, ESPN).

 

Brian, I don't envy your job one bit. It must be hard to deal with all of this and you are far more experienced than I am when it comes to this kind of thing. Would giving short term (a week) suspensions help get the message across to some people? It seems the all or nothing approach (either kicking them off permanently or letting them stay) isn't really getting the message across. I know this is hard on you and you probably never imagined having to deal with all this stuff when you started the board. Its really a shame that this awesome thing you've put together has to have so many people who treat it with such disrespect.

[Brian the Automator]

[ I know this is hard on you and you probably never imagined having to deal with all this stuff when you started the board. ]

 

Tell me about it....

 

...I don't know, I think i've made my points pretty clear, and i'm just going to let things play out for a while. I saw some self-apologies for bad behavior in the IGT tonight, and that was encouraging.

[Katuluu]

I say apathy for some and Branyan bobbleheads for others!

[PeaveyFury]

Brian has done the short-term banning thing in some situations. I think it's a good tool to use to get people to cool off sometimes, thoug most people, even the most obscene offenders that are banned have been given a 2nd chance.

 

But it works with some and they get the message, others are enraged by it and they come back with somewhat of a vengeance.

[strawbossisevil]

Ok thanks for the info. This is why I'm glad you guys are handling things and not me. Thanks for all the work you do, the life of a Moderator isn't as glamourous as some think it is.

[Brian the Automator]

[ the life of a Moderator isn't as glamourous as some think it is ]

 

I know, the paparazzi and the groupies get old after a while.

[berniebrewer4life]

Quote:

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but they DON'T have a right to say what they want when a privately owned site requests it of them.

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QTF.

 

Too many people don't understand this.

[DHonks]

what annoys me in the In Game Threads isn't the comments like "Prince with a great play," but rather "and Prince makes an out." And that's the entire post. There's one name of a poster that comes to mind, and it seems he likely posts 90% of the time in the IGT's. I'm not sure if it annoys me that he's stating simple facts, or if he's posting and refreshing OVER and OVER while still not taking the time to become an EZ Supporter