Attanasio Nixed Wong Trade to BOS?

[Brewcrew82]

According to Red Sox reporter/podcaster/fan, Jared Carrabis, the Brewers had agreed to trade Wong to Boston, but Attanasio stepped in and vetoed the deal. Speculation that the Brewers would only have received prospects in return and that Attanasio instead preferred to receive win-now type of pieces...

IMO, for all the hate he has received recently, Attanasio may have done some good here, IF this report is true. Can't imagine we would've received anything special prospect-wise for Wong, and Winker could be a huge boost to the middle of the order if he hits like he has aside from 2022. 

 

[Brewcrew82]

Here's the specific podcast (47:50)...

[MVP2110]

Not a fan of Mark A vetoing a deal that Arnold might have preferred 

[brewmann04]

depends who that prospect was too

[Brock Beauchamp]

I'm generally against ownership stepping in and killing specific baseball deals. The baseball people were hired for a reason, let them do their jobs.

Of course, it's perfectly within rights of ownership to (strongly) suggest a direction to go but I don't really like drilling down to an individual deal unless it's a franchise-altering deal, like trading Juan Soto or something.

[jay87shot]

I would have loved to have gotten prospects if it was 1 good one not 3 meh guys like Renfroe. Then we could have used the money to get a 1B and put Rowdy at DH. 

Say Wong for Blaze Jordan and then sign Bell or Abreu depending on the timing of the trade and if either were willing to come to MIL. Maybe even an OF and Yeli to DH

I am OK with the trade we made, but between 1 year of Winker and Toro there are a bunch of question marks $10 mil and a high upside prospect could solve.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Yeah, I'm not generally a fan of owners getting involved in specific deals. It's obviously his team, and he's (obviously) well within his rights to do so. You hire baseball guys to run your baseball business. I think the owners should lay out their expectations and guidelines and budgets and by all means, be involved, but let the baseball guys do their baseball things. 

Maybe it's more common than we're made aware of, but I can't imagine a general manager likes an owner stepping in and throwing paprika in the brownie batter. 

[nate82]

19 minutes ago, DuWayne Steurer said:

Yeah, I'm not generally a fan of owners getting involved in specific deals. It's obviously his team, and he's (obviously) well within his rights to do so. You hire baseball guys to run your baseball business. I think the owners should lay out their expectations and guidelines and budgets and by all means, be involved, but let the baseball guys do their baseball things. 

Maybe it's more common than we're made aware of, but I can't imagine a general manager likes an owner stepping in and throwing paprika in the brownie batter. 

For trades it goes GM and then the owner approves or denies the trade.  Most of the time the owner approves the trade and it is normally trades that are going to impact the MLB roster for the most part.

[sveumrules]

Don’t think Blaze Jordan would have been the target, intriguing bat for sure who put up nice numbers at A/A+ as a 19 year old, but looks like defensive profile is maybe 3B/likely 1B.

Looking at the Red Sox prospects at FanGraphs guessing they would have been after some combination of Brandon Walter, Bryan Mata, Thad Ward, Franklin German, Eduardo Bazardo and Jacob Wallace as upper level depth arms.

[Brock Beauchamp]

3 minutes ago, sveumrules said:

Don’t think Blaze Jordan would have been the target, intriguing bat for sure who put up nice numbers at A/A+ as a 19 year old, but looks like defensive profile is maybe 3B/likely 1B.

I mean, maybe. But his 80-grade baseball name has to count for something. 

[sveumrules]

2 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

I mean, maybe. But his 80-grade baseball name has to count for something. 

I still dream of the Brewers acquiring both Riley Pint and Seth Beer.

[Robocaller]

Impossible to comment intelligently without knowing what Boston offered. 

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

If they had dealt Wong to Boston for some low-level prospects, it would have looked like a straight salary dump, which would have reflected poorly on a team trying to maintain a competitive window. They may have gotten a decent lottery ticket type back, but to the average fan, it wouldn't have looked good. But by taking back Winker's salary, they get a guy who could very well turn it around and be a solid middle of the order power bat, plus a young guy in Toro who was once a very highly thought of prospect, but flamed out after the Mariners acquired him. They are two guys with pretty big upside, but who the Mariners sold extremely low on.

[homer]

Kind of impossible to know what to think without specifics. 

[DuWayne Steurer]

58 minutes ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

If they had dealt Wong to Boston for some low-level prospects, it would have looked like a straight salary dump, which would have reflected poorly on a team trying to maintain a competitive window. They may have gotten a decent lottery ticket type back, but to the average fan, it wouldn't have looked good. But by taking back Winker's salary, they get a guy who could very well turn it around and be a solid middle of the order power bat, plus a young guy in Toro who was once a very highly thought of prospect, but flamed out after the Mariners acquired him. They are two guys with pretty big upside, but who the Mariners sold extremely low on.

Sold low on? Wong's coming off back to back 3+ WAR seasons, even with his defense taking a bit of a down-turn.  Winker had a trash season, and Toro hasn't been able to hit his way out of a wet paper bag. I know we tend to look at trades with rose colored glasses, but saying the Mariners sold low isn't fair. They got a guy who should still be a 2-3 WAR guy for them this season for a guy who may or may not bounce back from an injury plagued season and a former prospect who hasn't hit a lick yet. 

[MVP2110]

I do agree it's hard to judge the specifics in this instance without knowing what the full deal was but I think it's perfectly fine to judge that in an ideal world Mark A would let Matt Arnold make decisions and not intervene

[Soupbone]

MA probably nixed it because of the bad results of the Hader trade. Can't have the fans mad or our payroll is going to be like the Pirates.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

7 hours ago, DuWayne Steurer said:

Sold low on? Wong's coming off back to back 3+ WAR seasons, even with his defense taking a bit of a down-turn.  Winker had a trash season, and Toro hasn't been able to hit his way out of a wet paper bag. I know we tend to look at trades with rose colored glasses, but saying the Mariners sold low isn't fair. They got a guy who should still be a 2-3 WAR guy for them this season for a guy who may or may not bounce back from an injury plagued season and a former prospect who hasn't hit a lick yet. 

Umm ... I'm not sure you understand what I meant by "sold low". What I meant is that Winker, based on his past MLB success, and Toro, based on his prospect pedigree, both have a high upside and solid ceiling, and that their down seasons caused the Mariners to sell them off for Wong, who has a pretty high salary for his production, whhich should probably be solid but not spectacular. 

[clancyphile]

23 hours ago, sveumrules said:

Don’t think Blaze Jordan would have been the target, intriguing bat for sure who put up nice numbers at A/A+ as a 19 year old, but looks like defensive profile is maybe 3B/likely 1B.

Looking at the Red Sox prospects at FanGraphs guessing they would have been after some combination of Brandon Walter, Bryan Mata, Thad Ward, Franklin German, Eduardo Bazardo and Jacob Wallace as upper level depth arms.

I'd have gone for LHP Chris Murphy, C Nathan Hickey, and SS David Hamilton for Wong. 

[Jopal78]

11 hours ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

If they had dealt Wong to Boston for some low-level prospects, it would have looked like a straight salary dump, which would have reflected poorly on a team trying to maintain a competitive window. They may have gotten a decent lottery ticket type back, but to the average fan, it wouldn't have looked good. But by taking back Winker's salary, they get a guy who could very well turn it around and be a solid middle of the order power bat, plus a young guy in Toro who was once a very highly thought of prospect, but flamed out after the Mariners acquired him. They are two guys with pretty big upside, but who the Mariners sold extremely low on.

I don’t disagree with your premise but “pretty big upside” isn’t a term I’d use.
 

Winker has a pretty long track record in the major leagues. He didn’t play well in ‘22, then was injured; and frankly has been injured a lot in his career. I think the Brewers will be  giddy if they get 475 PAs out of Winker at close to his career norms of production. Not really upside. 

Toro could have “upside” based upon minor league hitting stats and being 27. The  again, after 1000 PAs in the majors, most players are who they are after that much experience, which  (like Hiura) doesn’t bode well for him or the Brewers either.

 

 

[wiguy94]

16 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

I don’t disagree with your premise but “pretty big upside” isn’t a term I’d use.
 

Winker has a pretty long track record in the major leagues. He didn’t play well in ‘22, then was injured; and frankly has been injured a lot in his career. I think the Brewers will be  giddy if they get 475 PAs out of Winker at close to his career norms of production. Not really upside. 

Toro could have “upside” based upon minor league hitting stats and being 27. The  again, after 1000 PAs in the majors, most players are who they are after that much experience, which  (like Hiura) doesn’t bode well for him or the Brewers either.

 

 

I think there’s some hope that Winker primarily playing DH will keep him healthier this year. Most of his injuries have come while playing in the field. Plus Winker has always crushed NL pitching. Even last year he raked when playing NL teams. 

[brewmann04]

Think Winkler will

have a good season for the crew 

[Brewcrew82]

2 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

I don’t disagree with your premise but “pretty big upside” isn’t a term I’d use.
 

Winker has a pretty long track record in the major leagues. He didn’t play well in ‘22, then was injured; and frankly has been injured a lot in his career. I think the Brewers will be  giddy if they get 475 PAs out of Winker at close to his career norms of production. Not really upside. 

Toro could have “upside” based upon minor league hitting stats and being 27. The  again, after 1000 PAs in the majors, most players are who they are after that much experience, which  (like Hiura) doesn’t bode well for him or the Brewers either.

 

 

Winter’s 145 wRC+ from 2020-2021 seems like pretty big upside to me. Thats between guys like Jose Ramirez and Paul Goldschmidt…

[Jopal78]

8 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Winter’s 145 wRC+ from 2020-2021 seems like pretty big upside to me. Thats between guys like Jose Ramirez and Paul Goldschmidt…

That’s not upside, that’s his career average. Like I said, if he hit at his career average and have the Brewers 450+ PAs they would probably be very happy. 

[MrTPlush]

Wonder if it was:

1) Both offers happened to be on the table at the same time and that’s how he got to decide he was getting traded for win-now players.

or 

2) Attanasio shot it down and told Arnold he can find win-now talent for Wong or Wong is on the 2023 roster.