Drury to Angels, 2 yrs $17 M

[Robocaller]

3 hours ago, sveumrules said:

Yeah, for a team like the Brewers, I take spending zero (or close to it) on free agency as a sign of organizational health.

It means they are developing enough players to fill out the majority of the roster through graduation or trades.

No it doesn't. You can't look at our bullpen and think that will do. And we're throwing crap against the wall to see what sticks with our infield mob. Not signing FA simply means you don't want to spend money, not that you couldn't spend some money well.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

9 hours ago, DR28 said:

Well we do have to spend money on some MLB signings.

Is there a mandate?

[DR28]

20 minutes ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

Is there a mandate?

Arent we required by MLB to spend $ on FAs? I thought that was a requirement of the revenue sharing or w/e.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

2 minutes ago, DR28 said:

Arent we required by MLB to spend $ on FAs? I thought that was a requirement of the revenue sharing or w/e.

No, not at all.

[monty57]

4 hours ago, Robocaller said:

No it doesn't. You can't look at our bullpen and think that will do. And we're throwing crap against the wall to see what sticks with our infield mob. Not signing FA simply means you don't want to spend money, not that you couldn't spend some money well.

I agree that we should look to find a guy or two for the ‘pen that we can insert in the setup role. 
 

As to the infield, we have Adames (109 wRC+, gold glove defense), Urias (110 wRC+), Tellez (110 wRC+), and Contrares (138 wRC+) who have MLB experience (numbers are for ‘22), along with our top infield prospect Turang who Fangraphs lists as a 60 fielder, and Steamer projects for a 94 wRC+. 
 

Then there are three guys fighting for bench spots in Toro, Miller and Hiura. Is that where you see “crap,” or are you saying Turang, Adames, Urias, Contreras, and Tellez are crap?

Some don’t want to see so much reliance on rookies, and (I think) most think Urias is better defensively at second than third, but I wouldn’t call our guys “crap.”  
 

Personally, I wouldn’t trade Urias or Turang for Drury straight-up. 

[monty57]

6 minutes ago, DR28 said:

Arent we required by MLB to spend $ on FAs? I thought that was a requirement of the revenue sharing or w/e.

No, we’re required to field a 26 man roster, with league minimum being $700,000 per player. 
 

Spending money can help you improve, but it doesn’t always work that way. For instance, I love the Contreras trade, and I’d take him at league minimum pay over whoever we could have signed as a free agent for a lot more money. 
 

To topic, we possibly could have spent $8.5M per year for Drury, who may not outperform Toro and Miller as a bench player over the next two years, and probably won’t outperform any of our starters over that time frame. 
 

We have a team full of slightly-above-average position players. It’s hard to improve at any position without spending a lot of money in free agency, which is something the Brewers can’t do. 

[clancyphile]

8 hours ago, areacodes said:

Do you feel the A’s have improved more than the Brewers have so far this off-season?

I'd say they improved, but not as much as the Brewers for the price they paid.

The A's got some good, if not great, pitching prospects and a CF with a nice speed/OBP package. Not bad, but they had to deal Murphy to get that upgrade.

The Brewers upgraded at C and DH over Narvaez/McCutcheon with Contreras/Winker, the team cleared space for Frelick and Turang by dealing Renfroe and Wong, and they also got some more pitching depth and a potential replacement for Jace Peterson in the process.

[clancyphile]

1 hour ago, monty57 said:

I agree that we should look to find a guy or two for the ‘pen that we can insert in the setup role. 
 

As to the infield, we have Adames (109 wRC+, gold glove defense), Urias (110 wRC+), Tellez (110 wRC+), and Contrares (138 wRC+) who have MLB experience (numbers are for ‘22), along with our top infield prospect Turang who Fangraphs lists as a 60 fielder, and Steamer projects for a 94 wRC+. 
 

Then there are three guys fighting for bench spots in Toro, Miller and Hiura. Is that where you see “crap,” or are you saying Turang, Adames, Urias, Contreras, and Tellez are crap?

Some don’t want to see so much reliance on rookies, and (I think) most think Urias is better defensively at second than third, but I wouldn’t call our guys “crap.”  
 

Personally, I wouldn’t trade Urias or Turang for Drury straight-up. 

This.

I also saw a very interesting post on Twitter about two OFs, one of whom is already a Brewer, the other who is highly coveted by some on this board:

 

[DR28]

And who are the players ^?

[Hopper]

2 minutes ago, DR28 said:

And who are the players ^?

Apparently it's a secret.

[sveumrules]

3 minutes ago, DR28 said:

And who are the players ^?

Players are Wil Myers & Tyrone Taylor.

Clicking on the tweet, it appears the good doctors additional context is that Myers isn’t an upgrade over Taylor.

Don’t think anyone wants Wil to replace Tyrone though, it would be to play him alongside TT against LHP (128 wRC+ for Myers over 240 PA from 2021-22) in place of Rowdy at 1B, Winker at DH or one of Frelick/Mitchell in RF while Taylor is in CF.

[Soupbone]

By Sveum's assessment we need to become more like Tampa Bay if we haven't already. When does the average fan of teams in our position decide to look elsewhere for entertainment?

[StearnsFTW]

9 hours ago, areacodes said:

Do you feel the A’s have improved more than the Brewers have so far this off-season?

I do not.  Clearly I didn't understand you.  I truly wasn't sure if you were serious.  The internet can be hard to interpret.

Edit:  After re-reading the thread, I'm just dumb.

 

 

[adambr2]

4 minutes ago, Soupbone said:

By Sveum's assessment we need to become more like Tampa Bay if we haven't already. When does the average fan of teams in our position decide to look elsewhere for entertainment?

Was this meant to be a slight of Tampa Bay? Yes, we absolutely should have a similar business model to Tampa Bay, who are a wildly successful small market franchise. To have their success while also having the fan support here that Tampa Bay doesn't have would put us in a great position to be successful. 

Would you rather become more like the Pirates? Because if you're expecting us to become more like the Mets or Dodgers, then yes, you might as well look elsewhere for entertainment.

[Soupbone]

No. Not a slight at all. Tampa Bay has been really good at what they do. But when Hader was traded Brewer fans went berserk. While I might have waited till the off season this is what Tampa Bay does a lot. We can't have it both ways. If that is our model we have to accept that we don't keep guys long term. Constant roster churn and losing players we like. But I'm not talking about people on this site because we are baseball junkies. The people who I think would become disinterested are the people who look at a Brewer game as a different way to spend an evening with the family.

[CheezWizHed]

Players coming and going is the nature of all sports these days.  It is pretty rare for one player to remain on a team his whole life.  Even then, they age and retire.  

I was devastated when Molitor left in FA so many years ago..as were many.  But people move on.  The average fan is more a fan of the game than individual players.  As long as the average fan can come to the BP and see a competitive game with a fun team, they keep coming. 

[monty57]

3 hours ago, Soupbone said:

No. Not a slight at all. Tampa Bay has been really good at what they do. But when Hader was traded Brewer fans went berserk. While I might have waited till the off season this is what Tampa Bay does a lot. We can't have it both ways. If that is our model we have to accept that we don't keep guys long term. Constant roster churn and losing players we like. But I'm not talking about people on this site because we are baseball junkies. The people who I think would become disinterested are the people who look at a Brewer game as a different way to spend an evening with the family.

The Brewers need to do what they’ve been doing, which is offering good prospects extensions within their first year or two. That will give them eight years instead of six. They risk the player not working out, but don’t risk a franchise-crippling contract money-wise.  
 

And yes, they will often trade players when they’re a year or two out from free agency…especially the good ones who will bring back a lot of young talent. Small revenue teams have to maintain a lot of young talent, and trading away “proven” guys is one way to bring in that talent. 

[Outlander]

4 hours ago, sveumrules said:

Players are Wil Myers & Tyrone Taylor.

Clicking on the tweet, it appears the good doctors additional context is that Myers isn’t an upgrade over Taylor.

Don’t think anyone wants Wil to replace Tyrone though, it would be to play him alongside TT against LHP (128 wRC+ for Myers over 240 PA from 2021-22) in place of Rowdy at 1B, Winker at DH or one of Frelick/Mitchell in RF while Taylor is in CF.

Agreed, Myers would be a good fit for the team, obviously not at the $20 million Myers was previously earning. The Brewers need quality hitters against left handed pitching and Myers can fill in there at DH/1B/OF. Taylor can also be one of those key guys against left handed pitching even though he was somewhat of a disappointment in that regards during 2022. Maybe they can have a wait and see approach and get somebody like Myers at the trade deadline, but they needed that last trade deadline as well and couldn't acquire that type of player.

[clancyphile]

4 hours ago, sveumrules said:

Players are Wil Myers & Tyrone Taylor.

Clicking on the tweet, it appears the good doctors additional context is that Myers isn’t an upgrade over Taylor.

Don’t think anyone wants Wil to replace Tyrone though, it would be to play him alongside TT against LHP (128 wRC+ for Myers over 240 PA from 2021-22) in place of Rowdy at 1B, Winker at DH or one of Frelick/Mitchell in RF while Taylor is in CF.

Part of me thinks it might not be a bad idea to give Wiemer a NRI to spring training and see how he does. Maybe look for a late FA if wiemer struggles... nbut if he is as good as he's looked for most of the last two seasons... why not have him in the mix?

[monty57]

6 minutes ago, Outlander said:

Agreed, Myers would be a good fit for the team, obviously not at the $20 million Myers was previously earning. The Brewers need quality hitters against left handed pitching and Myers can fill in there at DH/1B/OF. Taylor can also be one of those key guys against left handed pitching even though he was somewhat of a disappointment in that regards during 2022. Maybe they can have a wait and see approach and get somebody like Myers at the trade deadline, but they needed that last trade deadline as well and couldn't acquire that type of player.

I completely agree… then I go back to the McCutchen signing where everyone was saying the same thing. I don’t trust that if we sign a former “name” player to fill a specific role that he won’t be given far more playing time than he should. 
 

If used correctly, a veteran like Myers would be a good addition to the team for the right price. I’m just skeptical about his being used correctly. 

[areacodes]

5 hours ago, clancyphile said:

I'd say they improved, but not as much as the Brewers for the price they paid.

The A's got some good, if not great, pitching prospects and a CF with a nice speed/OBP package. Not bad, but they had to deal Murphy to get that upgrade.

The Brewers upgraded at C and DH over Narvaez/McCutcheon with Contreras/Winker, the team cleared space for Frelick and Turang by dealing Renfroe and Wong, and they also got some more pitching depth and a potential replacement for Jace Peterson in the process.

Yup - and that was my point. DR28 was saying it was sad that Oakland has spent more money this off-season than the Brewers.  

It isn’t about how much money you spend, it is about improving your ball club. The Brewers have done thru trades/internal promotion and not buying free agents right now.  I still expect them to go out and sign some relievers and possibly someone like Brian Anderson/Jean Segura if the price is reasonable.

[areacodes]

5 hours ago, StearnsFTW said:

I do not.  Clearly I didn't understand you.  I truly wasn't sure if you were serious.  The internet can be hard to interpret.

Edit:  After re-reading the thread, I'm just dumb.

 

 

Sorry - I was trying to be cute with my response to DR28 and probably could have been a little more clear.

[Brock Beauchamp]

7 hours ago, DR28 said:

Arent we required by MLB to spend $ on FAs? I thought that was a requirement of the revenue sharing or w/e.

*looks at Pirates and A’s*

*sighs*

Nope, no requirements of any kind on payroll or spending. 

[Robocaller]

8 hours ago, monty57 said:

As to the infield, we have Adames (109 wRC+, gold glove defense), Urias (110 wRC+), Tellez (110 wRC+), and Contrares (138 wRC+) who have MLB experience (numbers are for ‘22), along with our top infield prospect Turang who Fangraphs lists as a 60 fielder, and Steamer projects for a 94 wRC+. 
 

Then there are three guys fighting for bench spots in Toro, Miller and Hiura. Is that where you see “crap,” or are you saying Turang, Adames, Urias, Contreras, and Tellez are crap?

I expect Toro and Miller to be on the O.D. roster. I expect Turang to be held in AAA until super 2 has passed, and maybe not then, if those other guys made significant improvement.  The past performance of Toro and Miller has been crap, and Turang hasn't played in the majors yet.  I can't see how to be confident with that infield mob (along with Brosseau, whom we can expect to hit OK, but not help us in the field).

[monty57]

3 hours ago, Robocaller said:

I expect Toro and Miller to be on the O.D. roster. I expect Turang to be held in AAA until super 2 has passed, and maybe not then, if those other guys made significant improvement.  The past performance of Toro and Miller has been crap, and Turang hasn't played in the majors yet.  I can't see how to be confident with that infield mob (along with Brosseau, whom we can expect to hit OK, but not help us in the field).

I’m definitely not confident in Toro and Miller being anything special. You may be right that Turang is held down through the Suoer 2 cutoff, but I don’t expect the Brewers to spend any significant money on a stopgap who will start for several weeks. Even most big market clubs who are holding back a top prospect wouldn’t normally do that. 
 

If they keep Turang down to save a year’s service time, we’ll probably just have to hope that Toro/Miller/Brosseau can hold the fort adequately for a few weeks. We did that last year in CF with Taylor and Davis until Mitchell’s rookie status was secured for this season, so we’d probably do it again. 
 

I’ve said in the past that I’d be alright with them making a move that would keep Turang in AAA until an injury hit, but at this point I don’t really see anyone who would be a clear upgrade for us unless we make a big trade. Signing one of the “scrap heap” free agent guys seems like it would be spending money for at best a lateral move.