Justin Turner to Red Sox; 2 years, $22 Mil (player option)

[Brewcrew82]

 

[Brewcrew82]

Old news. But no thread to discuss. 

I would have been fine with that price, but Turner is still 38, and he could fall off a cliff at anytime. Wonder if Cain, McCutchen, and JBJ might have scared the Brewers off here. Or if this was a case of Turner simply preferring to play in Boston over Milwaukee. Oh well, relief pitching and a right-handed OF/1B option are more pressing needs imo. 

Meanwhile, what in the world are the Red Sox doing???

[homer]

That is not a lot of money but apparently he turned down a decent sized deal with the Marlins because he thought they weren't committed to winning. Which is weird if true because the Red Sox haven't seemed too committed to winning the last two or three off seasons.

[Brewcrew82]

Just now, homer said:

That is not a lot of money but apparently he turned down a decent sized deal with the Marlins because he thought they weren't committed to winning. Which is weird if true because the Red Sox haven't seemed too committed to winning the last two or three off seasons.

I don't think we were as interested as we were last time. Again, wonder if Cain, McCutchen, and JBJ scared the Brewers off here...Or maybe the FO thinks we have more pressing needs in the bullpen? 

[Hopper]

This is the latest:

Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic confirms that the Red Sox agreement with Justin Turner is for one-year and $15 million guaranteed.

There had been conflicting reports as to the actual terms of the deal, but it sounds like Turner will get one year and $15 million if he does not exercise his player option for 2023 -- and two-years, $21.7 million in total if he exercises his option. Rosenthal also notes that Turner can earn up to an additional $1 million in incentives for plate appearances ($200,000 each for 480, 500, 520, 540 and 560) in 2023.

[wallus]

28 minutes ago, Hopper said:

This is the latest:

Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic confirms that the Red Sox agreement with Justin Turner is for one-year and $15 million guaranteed.

There had been conflicting reports as to the actual terms of the deal, but it sounds like Turner will get one year and $15 million if he does not exercise his player option for 2023 -- and two-years, $21.7 million in total if he exercises his option. Rosenthal also notes that Turner can earn up to an additional $1 million in incentives for plate appearances ($200,000 each for 480, 500, 520, 540 and 560) in 2023.

Up to 16 million for a 38 year old Turner is pretty steep. It likely would have been our "one major" move of the offseason. With all of that said, I wouldn't have hated it.

[MrTPlush]

The Red Sox will reportedly only use him at 1B and DH….mostly.

I never really understood so many wanting him. Luis Urias put up 50% more WAR while being dang near a decade and half younger. 
 

I think many, myself included often times, really underrate how decent Urias is. With the boom of Dominican players, 3B is the new SS…even passable production seems to be good.

[wallus]

5 minutes ago, MrTPlush said:

I never really understood so many wanting him. Luis Urias put up 50% more WAR while being dang near a decade and half younger. 

You do know that Urias can play 2nd right?

[UpandIn]

4 hours ago, MrTPlush said:

The Red Sox will reportedly only use him at 1B and DH….mostly.

I never really understood so many wanting him. Luis Urias put up 50% more WAR while being dang near a decade and half younger. 
 

I think many, myself included often times, really underrate how decent Urias is. With the boom of Dominican players, 3B is the new SS…even passable production seems to be good.

WAR doesn't always tell you how a player fits in with your team. It also depends on which you're using.

Urias 2.3 FWar
Turner 2.4 FWar

But he also doesn't have to play 3B(in the event he would have signed here) on an everyday basis. Vs lefties, Urias to 2B. Vs RHPers, days off, DH/1B. Or if Turang can handle lefties, he could platoon with Winker and Tellez.

Definitely not worth 1/15M and then a player option, but 2/22...that he'd have been worth. Throw his bat into the lineup, gives you flexibility.

He's a good hitter. He'd have fit into the lineup pretty well. It's not always about one player vs another and WAR can be misleading when you're trying to round out a lineup. 

[brewcrewdue80]

Well there goes that final piece I was hoping for.  If Boston is going to use at DH/1b, he'd have made a nice platoon with Tellez besides DH&3b starts. Not sure his bat will see the HRs he would have here.

[MrTPlush]

7 hours ago, wallus said:

You do know that Urias can play 2nd right?

No, I actually thought he was legally obligated to only play 3B. Anything else and his contract would have been void and we would have lost draft picks. Thanks for the clarification. 

In that scenario I would have just kept Wong and still left Urias at 3B. Or put Turang at 2B and Urias at 3B. Spending 10mil+ on Justin Turner never really made a ton of sense. Once we weren't willing to keep Wong (or even Renfroe for that matter) it should have been pretty obvious the Brewers weren't going to go out and sign Justin Turner for similar or even more money. 

[Jopal78]

1 hour ago, MrTPlush said:

No, I actually thought he was legally obligated to only play 3B. Anything else and his contract would have been void and we would have lost draft picks. Thanks for the clarification. 

In that scenario I would have just kept Wong and still left Urias at 3B. Or put Turang at 2B and Urias at 3B. Spending 10mil+ on Justin Turner never really made a ton of sense. Once we weren't willing to keep Wong (or even Renfroe for that matter) it should have been pretty obvious the Brewers weren't going to go out and sign Justin Turner for similar or even more money. 

I don’t know if that’s true. Renfroe is gone because of the organizational depth they have who will play for the league minimum, as opposed to 11+ million dollars. 
 

Wong was reportedly shopped at the deadline in ‘22, which tells me he was no longer in Milwaukee’s plans but had some value based on a favorable contract situation. 
 

Those trades are re-allocating financial resources more than anything. I sure hope the Brewers go out and sign a quality veteran hitter and a couple of relief pitchers because otherwise they’re kind of spinning their wheels.

[Outlander]

It has been mentioned by other posters but getting rid of Wong indicates nothing regarding their willingness to pay because they ended up with Winker and paying part of Wong's salary. Certainly could make a case regarding Renfroe but in my opinion they will still spend that money. Time will tell.

[wallus]

3 hours ago, MrTPlush said:

No, I actually thought he was legally obligated to only play 3B. Anything else and his contract would have been void and we would have lost draft picks. Thanks for the clarification. 

In that scenario I would have just kept Wong and still left Urias at 3B. Or put Turang at 2B and Urias at 3B. Spending 10mil+ on Justin Turner never really made a ton of sense. Once we weren't willing to keep Wong (or even Renfroe for that matter) it should have been pretty obvious the Brewers weren't going to go out and sign Justin Turner for similar or even more money. 

You needed the clarification because you mentioned that Turner made no sense because of Urias. Wong was traded to get our starting DH so it's not like he was given away for nothing.

The Brewers were reportedly interested in Turner so that makes it much less than pretty obvious. In fact, it makes it obvious they are looking to upgrade at 3rd.

[brewerfan82]

3 hours ago, MrTPlush said:

Spending 10mil+ on Justin Turner never really made a ton of sense. Once we weren't willing to keep Wong (or even Renfroe for that matter) it should have been pretty obvious the Brewers weren't going to go out and sign Justin Turner for similar or even more money. 

If they had signed Justin Turner I think it'd be pretty easy to make the whole series of transactions make a ton of sense...

Instead of Wong at 2B (proj. 108 wRC+, 2.5 WAR, $10M) and Renfroe in RF (proj. 116 wRC+, 2.0 WAR, $11.2M proj.) for about $21.2M in 2023, they would have had Urias slide into 2B (proj. 110 wRC+, 3.0 WAR, $4.3M), Frelick slide into RF (proj. 111 wRC+, 0.7 WAR in only 131 ABs, $0.7M) for about $6.75M (incl. the $1.75M sent to SEA).

You'd have Turner at 3B (proj. 115 wRC+, 1.5 WAR, ~$12M) basically pushing Turang either to AAA or UT (proj. 94 wRC+, 1.3 WAR. $0.7M), 

You'd also have Winker at DH (proj. 122 wRC+, 1.5 WAR, $8.25M). Not sure who we'd have for DH if not him, but he's definitely an improvement on last year's McCutchen ('22 98 wRC+, 0.3 WAR)

And then you still also add Toro (proj. 102 wRC+, 0.6 WAR in only 153 ABs, $1.4M), Janson Junk ($0.7M if not in minors), Elvis Peguero (minors) and Adam Seminaris (minors).

So in all you're paying about $29.1M for 8 players and a fairly solidly upgraded roster instead of $21.2 for just Wong and Renfroe. I think it makes quite a bit of sense.

That said, at this point I think they're still pretty ahead of the game. Just take out the Turner line above and you still have all those upgraded positions and you save $12M going with Turang at 2B and Urias at 3B. I'm guessing they're somewhat content with how things are now, however, the fact that they seemed to be in on Turner indicates they're likely open to upgrading that 3B/2B spot still if the right deal presents itself and likely putting Urias at whichever spot the newcomer doesn't fill.

[MrTPlush]

36 minutes ago, wallus said:

You needed the clarification because you mentioned that Turner made no sense because of Urias. Wong was traded to get our starting DH so it's not like he was given away for nothing.

The Brewers were reportedly interested in Turner so that makes it much less than pretty obvious. In fact, it makes it obvious they are looking to upgrade at 3rd.

Well, yah, it really doesn't make a ton of sense. I see the argument why we could have done it, but that doesn't mean I think it made a ton of sense. I am not denying the Brewers had interest at some point. 

Of course, this is ignoring the fact Justin Turner likely had zero interest coming to Milwaukee. I remember the last time we had interest in him and we were rumored to be the runner-up. A Dodgers player went to twitter to laugh at Brewers fans thinking Justin Turner would ever pick the Brewers over the Dodgers. I don't think Turner ever said anything about it...but that player probably was not wrong. He has played in New York and LA his entire career. At 38 years old and over $100mil in earnings I am betting he would retire if his only option was to play in Milwaukee.

[Brock Beauchamp]

13 hours ago, homer said:

That is not a lot of money but apparently he turned down a decent sized deal with the Marlins because he thought they weren't committed to winning. Which is weird if true because the Red Sox haven't seemed too committed to winning the last two or three off seasons.

That's... a weird decision. I'd much rather be on the Mariners for the next two seasons than the Red Sox.

[wibadgers23]

4 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

That's... a weird decision. I'd much rather be on the Mariners for the next two seasons than the Red Sox.

Marlins...not the Mariners.

[CheezWizHed]

18 minutes ago, MrTPlush said:

Well, yah, it really doesn't make a ton of sense. I see the argument why we could have done it, but that doesn't mean I think it made a ton of sense. I am not denying the Brewers had interest at some point. 

Of course, this is ignoring the fact Justin Turner likely had zero interest coming to Milwaukee. I remember the last time we had interest in him and we were rumored to be the runner-up. A Dodgers player went to twitter to laugh at Brewers fans thinking Justin Turner would ever pick the Brewers over the Dodgers. I don't think Turner ever said anything about it...but that player probably was not wrong. He has played in New York and LA his entire career. At 38 years old and over $100mil in earnings I am betting he would retire if his only option was to play in Milwaukee.

That seems a bit over the top.  Turner got far more money with LA and a better chance at a WS ring by staying with the Dodgers (which obviously happened in 2020).  That doesn't mean he'd hate to play for Milwaukee.  

Yes, there are people that wouldn't touch Milwaukee, but I didn't see any indications Turner was one of them. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

2 minutes ago, wibadgers23 said:

Marlins...not the Mariners.

Ah, that makes way more sense. I guess I saw "Mar" and stopped reading.

[wallus]

1 hour ago, CheezWizHed said:

That seems a bit over the top.  Turner got far more money with LA and a better chance at a WS ring by staying with the Dodgers (which obviously happened in 2020).  That doesn't mean he'd hate to play for Milwaukee.  

Yes, there are people that wouldn't touch Milwaukee, but I didn't see any indications Turner was one of them. 

Yes, it was really over the top honestly. You can't fault Turner for staying with the Dodgers when he was a nobody in New York and they took a chance on him. On top of that, they are a desirable market and a great team. With all of that said, saying Turner had a zero percent interest in playing for Milwaukee without any real evidence is a dumb thing to say.

[MrTPlush]

36 minutes ago, wallus said:

Yes, it was really over the top honestly. You can't fault Turner for staying with the Dodgers when he was a nobody in New York and they took a chance on him. On top of that, they are a desirable market and a great team. With all of that said, saying Turner had a zero percent interest in playing for Milwaukee without any real evidence is a dumb thing to say.

It really isn't over the top. He is 38 and has plenty of money. Wishful thinking he would come to a crappy Midwest city when he likely has a year or two left in his career. I don't fault him for staying with the Dodgers...I would have done the same. I know a lot of people live or grew up close to Milwaukee...but reality is, most people in the country would think of it as a dump...especially compared to many of the MLB cities. 

Also, I said likely zero interest...I didn't say it definitively, because yes...no one really knows. 90% of the conversation on this forum is about total hypotheticals and stuff we have no idea about...we have to assume. Maybe he would have had interest, I suppose there is a chance we can extend Corbin Burnes too...but you know, unlikely. Sorry my opinion does not match yours, doesn't make it dumb though. 

[CheezWizHed]

23 minutes ago, MrTPlush said:

It really isn't over the top. He is 38 and has plenty of money. Wishful thinking he would come to a crappy Midwest city when he likely has a year or two left in his career. I don't fault him for staying with the Dodgers...I would have done the same. I know a lot of people live or grew up close to Milwaukee...but reality is, most people in the country would think of it as a dump...especially compared to many of the MLB cities. 

Also, I said likely zero interest...I didn't say it definitively, because yes...no one really knows. 90% of the conversation on this forum is about total hypotheticals and stuff we have no idea about...we have to assume. Maybe he would have had interest, I suppose there is a chance we can extend Corbin Burnes too...but you know, unlikely. Sorry my opinion does not match yours, doesn't make it dumb though. 

We don't actually have to assume anything.  If there isn't evidence of it... don't bother spouting it.  

Also, it seems that quite often people think Milwaukee is a dump until they come and live here... then actually like it.  No not everyone, but many.

But silly to just assume Justin thinks it because "everyone" thinks it? 

[wallus]

21 minutes ago, CheezWizHed said:

We don't actually have to assume anything.  If there isn't evidence of it... don't bother spouting it.  

Also, it seems that quite often people think Milwaukee is a dump until they come and live here... then actually like it.  No not everyone, but many.

But silly to just assume Justin thinks it because "everyone" thinks it? 

Yep, zero evidence that Turner doesn't like Milwaukee or wouldn't consider signing here. All speculative with absolutely nothing beyond what amounts to a  "gut feeling".

Milwaukee in the summer isn't a bad place to be and most players don't live in Wisconsin in the offseason so this does not want to play here stuff is overblown. Spring Training is in Arizona and you are on the road half the time. The amount that you actually live in Milwaukee isn't even that much.

[MrTPlush]

38 minutes ago, CheezWizHed said:

We don't actually have to assume anything.  If there isn't evidence of it... don't bother spouting it.  

Also, it seems that quite often people think Milwaukee is a dump until they come and live here... then actually like it.  No not everyone, but many.

But silly to just assume Justin thinks it because "everyone" thinks it? 

Lol what? Alright, you might else well shut down the forum. 

As far as someone saying city location is overblown. I mean, I don't really think it is. Plenty of players, especially ones in Turner's situation most certainly will consider location. No reason to take it personally that Milwaukee isn't that great and not a preferred destination to many. Sometimes we get lucky and we are a preferred location. Ramirez picked us based on location and Greinke wanted to go to a smaller market team. 

I don't think Turner would have ever considered playing here, if you think he would have. Cool, that is your opinion on it.