What to do about 3rd Base ?

[DR28]

1 hour ago, Jopal78 said:

824 MLB plate appearances would suggest you're wrong about being a good hitter with some pop. I don't put too much stock into minor league numbers with a player who is 26 and has about two seasons worth of bad MLB stats to his name. 

He is a switch hitter and plays both 2B and 3B; thus if he puts up a .700 OPS as a utility guy,  I'm sure the Brewers would be pleased. 

26 career HR isnt some pop?

In the 2 full MLB seasons he's played 11 and 10 HR... Isnt that Wong territory? That's some pop to me, maybe not... Idk

[CheezWizHed]

I think if we signed a FA that could play 3B, hit 750 OPS (or 110 OPS+) and good defense, there would be much rejoicing.  There aren't too many 3B that do better than that in the league. 

Yet we have that in Urias and people want to see more?  Signing him to an extension is risky...all of them are.  But once you "see more" the price is out of our range.  Sometimes the grass is not always greener. 

[DR28]

14 hours ago, CheezWizHed said:

I think if we signed a FA that could play 3B, hit 750 OPS (or 110 OPS+) and good defense, there would be much rejoicing.  There aren't too many 3B that do better than that in the league. 

Yet we have that in Urias and people want to see more?  Signing him to an extension is risky...all of them are.  But once you "see more" the price is out of our range.  Sometimes the grass is not always greener. 

I would love to add Brian Anderson to play 3B, moving Urias to 2B... But probably doesnt happen, MA views our infield as complete.

[wallus]

1 hour ago, DR28 said:

MA views are infield as complete.

Where'd you see him say that? I must have missed it.

[Robocaller]

Anyone want to try Moustakas on a minimum contract? 

[DR28]

11 hours ago, wallus said:

Where'd you see him say that? I must have missed it.

He's said they like the infield group they have... It was awhile back now.

[CheezWizHed]

4 hours ago, Robocaller said:

Anyone want to try Moustakas on a minimum contract? 

Not really. I liked Moose a few years back, but if he can't hit in the Great American Bandbox, I think he is done. 

[nate82]

5 hours ago, Robocaller said:

Anyone want to try Moustakas on a minimum contract? 

No thanks he is done.

[MrTPlush]

If Toro is our everyday 2B, I may have to give up on this franchise. The ban of the shift (the shift isn't being banned anyway) is not going to make Toro a passable bat offensively. 

 

[brewmann04]

I rather try Turang

[DR28]

18 minutes ago, MrTPlush said:

If Toro is our everyday 2B, I may have to give up on this franchise. The ban of the shift (the shift isn't being banned anyway) is not going to make Toro a passable bat offensively. 

 

I know projections dont mean much... But if Toro puts up his 23 ZIPS line, I'll be damn happy.

Abraham Toro

B

26

2B

481

428

61

106

21

3

14

60

42

82

5

2

Abraham Toro

481

.248

.324

.409

100

.161

.277

-4

1.6

.319

Not sure how that isnt passable?? I'll take .324 OBP and 14 HRs 60 RBIs all day from our 2B.

[wallus]

4 hours ago, DR28 said:

He's said they like the infield group they have... It was awhile back now.

Saying they like the infield group they have (GM speak) and saying it is complete is definitely not the same thing...

[wibadgers23]

2 hours ago, MrTPlush said:

If Toro is our everyday 2B, I may have to give up on this franchise. The ban of the shift (the shift isn't being banned anyway) is not going to make Toro a passable bat offensively. 

 

As of today, it'll either be Toro or Turang.  I guess it could be Brosseau too but that's just gross to think about.  I imagine Urias is penciled in at 3B.  

[wallus]

Keep Toro away from LHP and things look slightly better. (career stats, not 2022 as much)

[MrTPlush]

9 minutes ago, wibadgers23 said:

As of today, it'll either be Toro or Turang.  I guess it could be Brosseau too but that's just gross to think about.  I imagine Urias is penciled in at 3B.  

Brosseau is gross? He has a 117 OPS+ last year. That is nearly double what Toro managed last year.

Brosseau has never really gotten a lot of playing time in a season to really know how his splits would be in a starting role...but over his career they do lean more favorable against lefties. 

If I was a betting man I think they go with a Toro/Brosseau platoon to start the season. After the Super 2 concern passes then they can make Turang the lefty side of the platoon.  Because more than likely, Toro won't be any better than a rookie Turang can do with way better defense.

In my opinion, a Brosseau/Turang platoon is likely Top 5 2B production in baseball...easily. For all the talk about 2B/3B, we were already Top 10 according to B-ref for both positions (#9)

[wibadgers23]

1 minute ago, MrTPlush said:

Brosseau is gross? He has a 117 OPS+ last year. That is nearly double what Toro managed last year.

Brosseau has never really gotten a lot of playing time in a season to really know how his splits would be in a starting role...but over his career they do lean more favorable against lefties. 

If I was a betting man I think they go with a Toro/Brosseau platoon to start the season. After the Super 2 concern passes then they can make Turang the lefty side of the platoon.  Because more than likely, Toro won't be any better than a rookie Turang can do with way better defense.

In my opinion, a Brosseau/Turang platoon is likely Top 5 2B production in baseball...easily. For all the talk about 2B/3B, we were already Top 10 according to B-ref for both positions (#9)

I guess I'm just not a big Brosseau guy, which probably has more to do with his horrid defense than anything.  Just please keep him away from 3B at all costs.

[brewcrewdue80]

Not big on a Urias extension.  He's a small guy with below ML avg Exit velocities. Already showing signs of speed decline. He's not flashing spikes where he has bust put potential. Not a strong arm.  Maybe if your intents were 2b usage the bat/defense would linger beyond next 3 years. It appears to me this may be his ceiling. Not capable to exceed 800 OPS. His floor is extremely high. Has the proper launch angle, K pct, BB pct, where he sits in the 725-765 OPS.  If his EV avg touched 90+ this season everything jumps for him. 87s at 5'9" just keeps him around 240BA. Slower running as ages decreases his BA unless his K rate drops in to 14-17pct for some time.  This year probably fits perfectly to see if healthy and jumps that EV to project higher future value, or he remains where he is and trade him next offseason while having some value.

 

[Robocaller]

12 hours ago, MrTPlush said:

In my opinion, a Brosseau/Turang platoon is likely Top 5 2B production in baseball...easily. For all the talk about 2B/3B, we were already Top 10 according to B-ref for both positions (#9)

Brosseau hasn't played one inning at 2B for the Brewers. I suspect he will be the platoon 3B against LHP. Urias will play both 3B and 2B.

 

[Robocaller]

2 hours ago, brewcrewdue80 said:

Not capable to exceed 800 OPS. 

He had a .789 OPS as a 24 year old. It's reasonable to think he can improve upon that as a 26-28 year old.

 

[brewcrewdue80]

5 hours ago, Robocaller said:

He had a .789 OPS as a 24 year old. It's reasonable to think he can improve upon that as a 26-28 year old.

 

It's all dependent that his average EV improves by more than 1MPH than his best season or he drops his K pct below 15pct(career 21.4%) I just dont think he has that with his body type. Certainly not speed. It'd be great if I was wrong. He's shown consistent numbers that statcast expected and what he finished the season were about spot on.  So again the way to better is harder hit balls or lower k pct. 

[Robocaller]

19 hours ago, brewcrewdue80 said:

It's all dependent that his average EV improves by more than 1MPH than his best season or he drops his K pct below 15pct(career 21.4%) I just dont think he has that with his body type. Certainly not speed. It'd be great if I was wrong. He's shown consistent numbers that statcast expected and what he finished the season were about spot on.  So again the way to better is harder hit balls or lower k pct. 

so you're telling me it's good if a batter doesn't strike out and if he does hit the ball harder.

Amazing. I never woulda guessed that.

 

[brewcrewdue80]

9 minutes ago, Robocaller said:

so you're telling me it's good if a batter doesn't strike out and if he does hit the ball harder.

Amazing. I never woulda guessed that.

 

What I'm telling you is via statcast that Urias for multiple seasons now hasn't done either significantly. To expect someone his frame to hit the ball harder for multiple seasons and immediately is setting urself up for failure when you extend him. Calling him a 725-760OPS future is realistic since to be higher than that, he'd have to do 1 or both of those things.  This is in reference to his Career high OPS 2 years ago and your saying he can be 800 OPS when I said it wasn't likely he'd become one to be worth an extension. 2B his bat profile would be fine. But 3b The thread topic, his bat and arm strength/defense leave him as just meh when seeing him as a 3b long term. If the bat doesn't stick at least at/above 725OPS with his defense he's a borderline AAAA player there. 

[umphrey]

I would be happy to extend Urias on the right deal. He was a middle of the road offensive 3b last year and that is probably pretty close to his floor, I think he has some upside still too. He can play 3 infield positions. An extension is not committing to him as our long term 3b it would just be committing to him as an infielder or tradable asset. 
 

Players like Urias are great to have on long term contracts because if frees up trade or FA options. For example if the right 3b is available we could add him and send Urias to 2b and trade away 2b prospects. Or he can just stay as an affordable 3b or if they are really daring they could try him at SS again. 

[Robocaller]

14 hours ago, brewcrewdue80 said:

What I'm telling you is via statcast that Urias for multiple seasons now hasn't done either significantly. To expect someone his frame to hit the ball harder for multiple seasons and immediately is setting urself up for failure when you extend him. Calling him a 725-760OPS future is realistic since to be higher than that, he'd have to do 1 or both of those things.  This is in reference to his Career high OPS 2 years ago and your saying he can be 800 OPS when I said it wasn't likely he'd become one to be worth an extension. 2B his bat profile would be fine. But 3b The thread topic, his bat and arm strength/defense leave him as just meh when seeing him as a 3b long term. If the bat doesn't stick at least at/above 725OPS with his defense he's a borderline AAAA player there. 

Your fundamental error is thinking that Urias needs to make a significant change in a couple of his batted ball stats to make a minuscule improvement in his performance (OPS of .800). In fact, he can do that by staying healthy and the gods of fate allowing his BABIP to be league average. That doesn't even consider the improvement that is expected (it will be his age 26 season and his third full season in the majors).

And you're way off on what it means to be a AAAA player.

[Robocaller]

9 hours ago, umphrey said:

if they are really daring they could try him at SS again. 

You went too far. He shouldn't play SS outside of an emergency.