What to do about 3rd Base ?

[Robocaller]

I predict we don't acquire anyone better than Owen Miller, who we just got.
I'd love for them to sign Turner. I don't expect it.

Maybe sign some has-been or never-was who might compete for a position. Probably on a minor league contract with S.T. invite.

[Robocaller]

6 hours ago, reillymcshane said:

I agree here. I don't think Turner really wants to be here. Just like last time. I'm guessing he ends up back in LA.

That said, I'd probably take Turner over Drury. While Turner is aging, I think he still has some gas left in the tank. I just don't trust Drury. His production has been so erratic. But that's for the front office evaluators to figure out. Not me.

This is where I am. 
I think Turner would rather take a 1-yr $9M contract from the Dodgers than a 2-yr $30M contract from the Brewers. And I don't think the Brewers would go that high.

 

[MNBrew]

For those who look at certain stats & wonder why there's doubt about Urias as our 3B, I'll tell you exactly why:  For as good as some of his overall numbers may look, he ended the season completely horribly and wasn't exactly a clutch hitter.  To wit:

in 47 Aug/Sept/Oct games -- 9 RBIs

w/ RISP for the year -- .168/.263/.337/.600

career .239 hitter w/ a .728 OPS (2022: .239 BA & .729 OPS)

I'm not an advanced stats person, but between watching/listening/following a lot of those games & THOSE numbers, the eyeball test (or the aural equivalent) was fairly ugly.  NONE of those numbers inspire a lot of confidence or strike much fear in opposing pitchers -- let alone indicate with great certainty that that position should be set for this coming year (or beyond).

I'd love a 3B upgrade.  I have NO suggestions about who those realistic/viable/worthwhile upgrades could be (if nothing else, for total lack of thought on the topic).  To me, Urias is plenty serviceable but hardly very compelling.

[Redd Vencher]

2 hours ago, MNBrew said:

For those who look at certain stats & wonder why there's doubt about Urias as our 3B, I'll tell you exactly why:  For as good as some of his overall numbers may look, he ended the season completely horribly and wasn't exactly a clutch hitter.  To wit:

in 47 Aug/Sept/Oct games -- 9 RBIs

w/ RISP for the year -- .168/.263/.337/.600

career .239 hitter w/ a .728 OPS (2022: .239 BA & .729 OPS)

I'm not an advanced stats person, but between watching/listening/following a lot of those games & THOSE numbers, the eyeball test (or the aural equivalent) was fairly ugly.  NONE of those numbers inspire a lot of confidence or strike much fear in opposing pitchers -- let alone indicate with great certainty that that position should be set for this coming year (or beyond).

I'd love a 3B upgrade.  I have NO suggestions about who those realistic/viable/worthwhile upgrades could be (if nothing else, for total lack of thought on the topic).  To me, Urias is plenty serviceable but hardly very compelling.

Mike Moustakas in his time with the Brewers put up a 111 wRC+. Urias has a 111 wRC+ over the last 2 seasons. (112 in 2021 and 110 in 2022.) If you thought Moustakas was good enough for a contender, there's no reason to think differently about Urias.

[Brewcrew82]

4 hours ago, MNBrew said:

For those who look at certain stats & wonder why there's doubt about Urias as our 3B, I'll tell you exactly why:  For as good as some of his overall numbers may look, he ended the season completely horribly and wasn't exactly a clutch hitter.  To wit:

in 47 Aug/Sept/Oct games -- 9 RBIs

w/ RISP for the year -- .168/.263/.337/.600

career .239 hitter w/ a .728 OPS (2022: .239 BA & .729 OPS)

I'm not an advanced stats person, but between watching/listening/following a lot of those games & THOSE numbers, the eyeball test (or the aural equivalent) was fairly ugly.  NONE of those numbers inspire a lot of confidence or strike much fear in opposing pitchers -- let alone indicate with great certainty that that position should be set for this coming year (or beyond).

I'd love a 3B upgrade.  I have NO suggestions about who those realistic/viable/worthwhile upgrades could be (if nothing else, for total lack of thought on the topic).  To me, Urias is plenty serviceable but hardly very compelling.

He "ended the season horribly"? His September slash line was: .302/.393/.434 (61 PAs), while his October slash line was: .429/.500/.786 (16 PAs). June and August were bad months for him, but overall a 3.1 WAR is good. Not elite, but good. I'm willing to give him a pass for his slight downturn in SLG as he played through a thumb injury for a significant chunk of the season. Plus, he's still only 25 years old. 

I do think he would be better suited for 2B, but other than Turner or maybe Drury, I don't see what options we have. 

[Jake McKibbin]

1 hour ago, Brewcrew82 said:

He "ended the season horribly"? His September slash line was: .302/.393/.434 (61 PAs), while his October slash line was: .429/.500/.786 (16 PAs). June and August were bad months for him, but overall a 3.1 WAR is good. Not elite, but good. I'm willing to give him a pass for his slight downturn in SLG as he played through a thumb injury for a significant chunk of the season. Plus, he's still only 25 years old. 

I do think he would be better suited for 2B, but other than Turner or maybe Drury, I don't see what options we have. 

I think he may have been struggling with a thumb injury for quite a while too, he didnt make a big deal of it, but could have played  apart. A lot of raving about him early last year, and there's definitely still potential, he goes through stretches where he's super clutch too

I likle him and in the 6/7/8 area he's definitely a weapon, plus his fielding and more importantly his throwing was hugely improved last season

[jay87shot]

Urias is passable to slightly above average at 3rd however he isn't shiny, I don't mean by size but by baseball attributes. He has been worth mostly positive defensive grades at 3rd but doesn't have a big arm (I am guessing his range holds his numbers up) or wow the die hard who watches every game, by todays standards he has at best average power, he isn't fast, and he takes walks but his average/contact tool which was his calling card as a prospect hasn't developed. Urias is a solid all-around player but as I watched last year he never felt like an indispensable part of our team/ a long term building block. I do wonder how he was worth 3.1 WAR in 2022 and 3.1 WAR in 2021, where I feel like he was a much better player in 2021 and played more (maybe because he played a lot of SS in 2021).

There really isn't an available option that case can be made for on the free agent market upgrade other than Turner because he can hit 3-5 in the order. There are some trade potential players that could be upgrades but all those players would have flaws.

I know this post is a bit wishy-washy but to me I don't think that Urias at 3B is a weakness, it just at no point is a place you can point to and say 3rd base is locked down and a strength.

[Jpbrew86]

What do you think it would take to get devers from Boston. I know it’s a rental but why not go for it. 

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

21 minutes ago, jay87shot said:

Urias is passable to slightly above average at 3rd however he isn't shiny, I don't mean by size but by baseball attributes. He has been worth mostly positive defensive grades at 3rd but doesn't have a big arm (I am guessing his range holds his numbers up) or wow the die hard who watches every game, by todays standards he has at best average power, he isn't fast, and he takes walks but his average/contact tool which was his calling card as a prospect hasn't developed. Urias is a solid all-around player but as I watched last year he never felt like an indispensable part of our team/ a long term building block. I do wonder how he was worth 3.1 WAR in 2022 and 3.1 WAR in 2021, where I feel like he was a much better player in 2021 and played more (maybe because he played a lot of SS in 2021).

There really isn't an available option that case can be made for on the free agent market upgrade other than Turner because he can hit 3-5 in the order. There are some trade potential players that could be upgrades but all those players would have flaws.

I know this post is a bit wishy-washy but to me I don't think that Urias at 3B is a weakness, it just at no point is a place you can point to and say 3rd base is locked down and a strength.

It should also be noted that Urias is still only 25 years old, and that is is entirely possible that he still has upside that hasn't yet been reached. 

[Jopal78]

2 hours ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

It should also be noted that Urias is still only 25 years old, and that is is entirely possible that he still has upside that hasn't yet been reached. 

Sure he’s just 25, but he has a lot of MLB experience including the last three years in Milwaukee and parts of a couple seasons in San Diego.

Admittedly,  any player can work on their game and improve, but unless you mean he’s going to pack on 20 lbs of muscle he’s probably very close to his ceiling as a .330/.420 player. 

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

4 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

Sure he’s just 25, but he has a lot of MLB experience including the last three years in Milwaukee and parts of a couple seasons in San Diego.

Admittedly,  any player can work on their game and improve, but unless you mean he’s going to pack on 20 lbs of muscle he’s probably very close to his ceiling as a .330/.420 player. 

I don't think his amount of MLB experience has much to do with physical maturity, though. Most MLB players reach their peak performance when they are roughly 27-28 years old, and that has much to do with physical maturity combined with ample experience.  

[jerichoholicninja]

Don't sleep on Evan Longoria. He's the classic over the hill, former star the Brewers love to sign to a one year deal. And he overlapped with Arnold in Tampa so there's familiarity.

[Jopal78]

57 minutes ago, jerichoholicninja said:

Don't sleep on Evan Longoria. He's the classic over the hill, former star the Brewers love to sign to a one year deal. And he overlapped with Arnold in Tampa so there's familiarity.

I don't know if Longoria is over the hill, the last two years he's hit .252/.333/.466 and was an okay defender. Longoria's problem is he can't stay healthy, In 2022 he missed all of April with an injury then most of July. In '21 he missed all of June, July and nearly all of August with injuries. In '19 he missed half of July with an injury, and he missed over a month in '18 with injuries. 

I like his chances at producing in '22 better than I like Justin Turner's, but it's pretty much a given Longoria will a chunk of the season with an injury too. 

[SRB]

13 hours ago, MNBrew said:

For those who look at certain stats & wonder why there's doubt about Urias as our 3B, I'll tell you exactly why:  For as good as some of his overall numbers may look, he ended the season completely horribly and wasn't exactly a clutch hitter.  To wit:

in 47 Aug/Sept/Oct games -- 9 RBIs

w/ RISP for the year -- .168/.263/.337/.600

career .239 hitter w/ a .728 OPS (2022: .239 BA & .729 OPS)

I'm not an advanced stats person, but between watching/listening/following a lot of those games & THOSE numbers, the eyeball test (or the aural equivalent) was fairly ugly.  NONE of those numbers inspire a lot of confidence or strike much fear in opposing pitchers -- let alone indicate with great certainty that that position should be set for this coming year (or beyond).

I'd love a 3B upgrade.  I have NO suggestions about who those realistic/viable/worthwhile upgrades could be (if nothing else, for total lack of thought on the topic).  To me, Urias is plenty serviceable but hardly very compelling.

I remember many instances of Urias seeming like the most clutch hitter on the team. In his career he has a 96 wRC+ with the bases empty, a 109 wRC+ with men on base, and a 105 wRC+ with RISP

[sveumrules]

1 hour ago, jerichoholicninja said:

Don't sleep on Evan Longoria. He's the classic over the hill, former star the Brewers love to sign to a one year deal. And he overlapped with Arnold in Tampa so there's familiarity.

147 wRC+ vs LHP over 211 PAs from 2021-22 too.

[tmwiese55]

I'm whatever on Turner as I'm assuming he's just gonna talk to us to set the price for LA.  But to some comments above, I would trust him still generally hit well when healthy next year.  I had him in fantasy so there was some quirks to his season. He started super slow and had some injuries, numbers were really bad.  Then he came back and hit really well but had to sit out small stretches here or there.  Not unlike Longoria, it'll depend on health. But he could get some DH abs to stay fresh vs lefties.   I guess I'm just saying his line 278/350ish but after that brutal start he hit way above it (unless my memory is way off, I didn't double check)

[MNBrew]

18 hours ago, jakedood said:

I think he may have been struggling with a thumb injury for quite a while too, he didnt make a big deal of it, but could have played  apart. A lot of raving about him early last year, and there's definitely still potential, he goes through stretches where he's super clutch too

I likle him and in the 6/7/8 area he's definitely a weapon, plus his fielding and more importantly his throwing was hugely improved last season

That "weapon" had in 9 RBIs in the last 2 months of the season when a playoff spot was there for the taking -- 17 RBIs total in the 2nd half -- and hit .168 for the season with RISP -- from a guy whose lineup role was more than anything about driving in runs.  He hit decently those two months but after following so many games so closely, the seemingly strong numbers others have cited seem more hollow than meaningful because he sure sucked most of the time when it mattered.  Counsell would often "go righty-vs-left formula" & bring him in as a PH for Jace Peterson to face a LHP and most of the time he was a total dud, a sure out.

More than anything, I'd love for Urias to prove he can be the lineup mainstay and strong contributor he looked like he could become when we traded for him.  Maybe it'll happen.  He's 25, strong hit tool & success in the minors, and could still improve -- I agree with all that -- but his performance overall is more in the realm of "just a guy" than anything compelling.

[UpandIn]

47 minutes ago, MNBrew said:

That "weapon" had in 9 RBIs in the last 2 months of the season when a playoff spot was there for the taking -- 17 RBIs total in the 2nd half -- and hit .168 for the season with RISP -- from a guy whose lineup role was more than anything about driving in runs.  He hit decently those two months but after following so many games so closely, the seemingly strong numbers others have cited seem more hollow than meaningful because he sure sucked most of the time when it mattered.  Counsell would often "go righty-vs-left formula" & bring him in as a PH for Jace Peterson to face a LHP and most of the time he was a total dud, a sure out.

More than anything, I'd love for Urias to prove he can be the lineup mainstay and strong contributor he looked like he could become when we traded for him.  Maybe it'll happen.  He's 25, strong hit tool & success in the minors, and could still improve -- I agree with all that -- but his performance overall is more in the realm of "just a guy" than anything compelling.

And he had a .162 BABIP with RISP. You can make some stats say whatever you want. 

His slash line the last two months tells you he was anything but horrible over that period of time. And we should all be cognizant of how bad the eye test can be. 

I'd say the 6.2 WAR the last two seasons proves he...can and is that mainstay and strong contributor he looked like...just not at SS where we upgraded. 

Urias 2021-22  269 Games 6.2 WAR
Turner 2021-22 279 Games 5.6 WAR

I think one problem with Brewers fans is that we're so fixated on our own teams(understandably so) that we're ignoring offense around MLB. Offense was down everywhere, not just Milwaukee. Urias has been a very solid player.

 

Unless you can acquire a player like Devers(which...the cost would be astronomical) I don't see a big upgrade. I think the best lineup would be Adames at 3B, Turang at SS and Urias at 2B, but...short of that, I don't know that we're going to get significantly better at 3B.

The most obvious area's to improve this team would be the BP or a RHH 1B/DH/RF named Myers...if he could be had for a 1/8.5M type deal. And that's probably a little light.

I would absolutely sign Justin Turner if he'd sign for a reasonable deal. But I also think he's a Dodger for life. As an aside, I really don't get what the Dodgers are doing. I get they want to reset the luxury tax, but they generate insane revenue and they haven't really been in on any of the top FAs. Again they've watched an elite SS leave. 

[Jopal78]

6 hours ago, UpandIn said:

As an aside, I really don't get what the Dodgers are doing. I get they want to reset the luxury tax, but they generate insane revenue and they haven't really been in on any of the top FAs. Again they've watched an elite SS leave. 

one must look at the history to get a full perspective. How many mega contracts have the Dodgers given out recently to players from outside their organization? 
 

Bauer and Freeman. And in both cases each player just won the top award for their position.  Bauer the Cy Young and Freeman the MVP. Also, Freeman is deferring a ton of money into the future so they’re only paying him 20 million per year now and it drops down to 15 million in 2025 giving the Dodgers plenty of flexibility. 

Just because LA runs a huge payroll doesn’t mean they’re the Phillies or Mets building nearly half a team with high priced free agents. 

[MVP2110]

For those who want Urias as a super utility guy that's basically what he is. He starts every day but not at the same position. Last year he started 54 games at 3b, 33 at 2b, and 22 at SS. With Turang on the roster I don't expect Urias to get much time at SS this year but I fully expect him to bounce between 2b & 3b depending who else is starting that day. But he'll most likely be in the lineup most days and he's a good enough bat to justify that

[tmwiese55]

Seems to me the Dodgers are being cheap, relatively of course, this year to get under the tax in order to give a mega deal to Ohtani next year.  Basically choice of give out one of the ridiculous SS contracts now or give out a bit more next year for a P and hitter in one. Getting under the tax one year will save them tons of money down the line.   That said, I'm still surprised they let Trea Turner go and that they didn't just sign both a SS and Ohtani and pay out the tax. 

[sveumrules]

Dodgers offseason is more or less on hold until they find out the ruling on Bauer’s appeal.

If they have to pay him back they could be done making any real moves in FA if they want to reset their luxury tax.

If they don’t have to pay him back they’ll could sign Turner and more without crossing the tax line.

[LakeshoreLarry]

Two players I'd like to see the Brewers trade for is Luis Arraez from the Twins and Anthony Santander from the Orioles.  Easier said than done of course but both are rumored to be available. Arraez would play 2B and then I'm okay with Urias at 3B and Turang as our super utility player. Owen Miller and Toro would be backup if Turang has problems with MLB pitching.  Arraez would be excellent top of the order hitter.  Santander would play RF and he is a switch hitter that hits left-handed pitching very well.  He would give us the production that we lost when we traded Renfroe and would probably hit in the 6th, 7th, or 8th spot.  I expect one of Lauer or Houser would have to be traded and probably Tyronne Taylor would also be included.  I'm sure prospects would also be included.

Realistically, Matt Arnold would have to pull off some magic again to get both players.  However, if possible, I believe that lineup along with the Brewer pitching would be very competitive for the NL Central title at a reasonable team salary.

[Playing Catch]

2023 Steamer Projections ranked by WAR at 3B:

Ramirez
Arenado
Bregman
Machado
Devers
Riley
Witt Jr.
Gunnar H
Y Diaz
Chapman
Rendon
Hayes
Luis Urias
Jose Miranda
Isaac Paredes
Bohm
(+8 more players)
Justin Turner

Can we PLEASE stop with the Justin Turner love. And for everyone that wants an upgrade, which of the guys above Urias are you wanting to trade for? Also, Urias is younger than all of the players above him other than Henderson and Witt Jr. (two guys that may end up at SS). The reality is, as other posters have pointed out, that 3B is really, really top heavy.

I'm all about discussing Devers, who would be a clear and obvious upgrade. With that said, Urias still has room to grow as a player.

[wallus]

1 hour ago, Playing Catch said:

2023 Steamer Projections ranked by WAR at 3B:

Ramirez
Arenado
Bregman
Machado
Devers
Riley
Witt Jr.
Gunnar H
Y Diaz
Chapman
Rendon
Hayes
Luis Urias
Jose Miranda
Isaac Paredes
Bohm
(+8 more players)
Justin Turner

Can we PLEASE stop with the Justin Turner love. And for everyone that wants an upgrade, which of the guys above Urias are you wanting to trade for? Also, Urias is younger than all of the players above him other than Henderson and Witt Jr. (two guys that may end up at SS). The reality is, as other posters have pointed out, that 3B is really, really top heavy.

I'm all about discussing Devers, who would be a clear and obvious upgrade. With that said, Urias still has room to grow as a player.

I think the vast majority of people wanting a new third baseman has the idea of moving Urias to 2nd base....