J.P. Feyereisen and Drew Rassmussen for Wily Adames

[Hacksaw Jim Duggan]

The trade is two years old now and hindsight can be applied to the trade.  I was wondering posters evaluation of the trade.  Rassmussen is pitching like an ace.  Can you imagine the Brewers trotting out Burnes, Woodruff, Rassmussen, Peralta, and Lauer.  Plus, a Hader at the back end.  Talk about pitching heavy, also a lot easier to acquire bats than controllable pitchers on the market today. 

 

Personally, I think this trade doesn't look good to me.  Rassmussen is controllable for a couple more years.

[Hacksaw Jim Duggan]

Don't forget Ashby and Houser can be spot starters making the bullpen stronger.

 

[sveumrules]

It’s been a win win for both teams.

Brewers don’t win the division in 2021 or just miss out on the wild card last year without Willy’s 8.0 WAR.

Rays had Wander ready in the wings so the 7.7 rWAR they’ve gotten from Drew/JPF has been more useful to them.

JPF just had shoulder surgery too so he’s likely to have an abbreviated 2023 after his 2022 was also injury shortened. 

[CheeseheadInQC]

The Rays are one of the last teams you should trade with if you are looking to clearly “win” the trade, but this turned out fine for both teams.

Two things to consider:

1. There is a good chance the Brewers, because of Rasmussen’s injury history, would have never moved him into the rotation. He might be getting ready to slot into the eighth inning role this year if he was with the Brewers.

2. If you look at Rasmussen’s stats with the Brewers vs. the Rays you would think you were looking at two different pitchers. Maybe going from a high strikeout, high walk guy to a low strikeout, low walk guy was a byproduct of the move to the rotation, but there is no guarantee that this version of Rasmussen is who he would have been with the Brewers.

[Brewcrew82]

Rasmussen is interesting because he's turned into a low strikeout guy and the Rays almost never let him pitch beyond the fifth inning. Which is why he only threw 146 innings this season despite making 28 starts. So, despite an ace-like ERA, I probably wouldn't call him an ace as the innings and strikeout numbers just aren't there.

I also doubt he even becomes a starter if he remains a Brewer, as the Brewers just didn't seem to have any interest in moving him to that role a la Josh Hader. The Rays obviously thought he could have success as a starter if they carefully managed his innings, and he's ended up proving them right for the most part.

At this point, you have to call it a win-win for both teams, with maybe an ever so slight advantage to the Brewers...

[82brewcrew82]

Specifically with regard to the return Milwaukee got in this trade, it reminds me of the Winker trade (and maybe the Tellez trade to a lesser extent).  They seem to be able to identify undervalued talent.

[jay87shot]

Don't forget we also got Trevor Richards in this deal, whom we traded for Rowdy like a month later. If you look at it as Willy and like 3/4 Rowdy (gave up Bowden Francis as well), it becomes more of a win in my mind. I think health will truly end up deciding this trade, if Rasmussen/JP can stay healthy (I think JP just had a shoulder surgery) the Rays can win. If not Willy's value alone is a plus for us. For now I say win/win.

[Jopal78]

23 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Rasmussen is interesting because he's turned into a low strikeout guy and the Rays almost never let him pitch beyond the fifth inning. Which is why he only threw 146 innings this season despite making 28 starts. So, despite an ace-like ERA, I probably wouldn't call him an ace as the innings and strikeout numbers just aren't there.

I also doubt he even becomes a starter if he remains a Brewer, as the Brewers just didn't seem to have any interest in moving him to that role a la Josh Hader. The Rays obviously thought he could have success as a starter if they carefully managed his innings, and he's ended up proving them right for the most part.

 

Or...maybe because he has never pitched more than 75 innings in any season as a pro, and has had two Tommy John procedures, they're simply trying to protect the arm of a 26 year old front of the rotation starter whom they control for another four seasons....sheesh.

Rasmussen was a 2.9 WAR pitcher last year in 28 starts,...Woodruff was a 2.7 WAR pitcher across 27 starts

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

The Rays obviously liked Rasmussen, as he is a former 1st round pick of theirs. The Brewers took the chance on him when they drafted him hoping he'd get over his arm issues, and that chance obviously paid off, as they were able to turn a 7th round flyer into an All-Star level SS. Rasmussen would be a great arm to still have around, but I'd take an every day All-Star level SS capable of hitting 30 HRs a season over nearly any pitcher. 

[Brewcrew82]

55 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

Or...maybe because he has never pitched more than 75 innings in any season as a pro, and has had two Tommy John procedures, they're simply trying to protect the arm of a 26 year old front of the rotation starter whom they control for another four seasons....sheesh.

Rasmussen was a 2.9 WAR pitcher last year in 28 starts,...Woodruff was a 2.7 WAR pitcher across 27 starts

And Woodruff put up a 3.5 fWAR, compared to a 2.9 fWAR for Rasmussen. Woodruff also with far better strikeout and peripheral numbers. bWAR, which you reference, is the worst source for measuring pitchers. Case in point, it gave Wade Miley a higher WAR than Corbin Burnes in 2021...Sheesh 

You can offer whatever explanation you want, but fact of the matter is that the innings totals aren't there at this point for Rasmussen as they are for other sure-fire ace pitchers. He averaged just over 5 innings per start, whereas a guy like Corbin Burnes averaged well over 6 innings per start. That may change going forward if they do decide to stretch Rasmussen out and he keeps his ERA below 3, but right now, he's more of a middle of the rotation starter than a top of the rotation one.

[brewcrewdue80]

Was torn on the trade when it happened, because you knew Rasmussen was high ceiling.  The team definitely needed a pick me up from SS and got it, which is exactly what me/you would hope for.  Both sides winning on the trade.  The Rays will very likely win in the end value because they flip their talents consistently to stock talents and compete yearly.  If Feyereisen wasn't struggling with injuries, Tampa would have this locked down for win trade.  While it's a loss for Milw in the end, it isn't a bad loss as we did find production from SS position.

[DR28]

We could get J.P. back... Rays just DFA'd him... They except to find deal for him.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

9 minutes ago, DR28 said:

We could get J.P. back... Rays just DFA'd him... They except to find deal for him.

Just had labrum surgery. He's out till probably August. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

This is a nice win for both teams and that's okay... but I'd rather be on the Brewer side of this deal. Getting Adames for 3.75 seasons, which could see him end up somewhere in the ~15 win range, is worth the price of a good pitcher for a contending team that already has lots of pitching.

[DR28]

26 minutes ago, Ron Robinsons Beard said:

Just had labrum surgery. He's out till probably August. 

Ahh got it, wasnt aware... Thanks man!

[StearnsFTW]

No interest in anyone who's had shoulder surgery for me.

 

 

 

[jay87shot]

I would still rather release Trevor Kelley or Tyson Miller, sign and keep JP on the 40 man until the season starts and then add him to the 60 day DL. We can easily pick up a Trevor Kelley quality arm once the season starts and the 40 man spot opens up (or promote someone who had a camp invite or Frelich).

[sveumrules]

Dodgers trade for JPF because of course they do.

Still kinda boggles the mind that the Brewers have become so good at identifying and developing pitchers recently that the Dodgers keep jumping on them.

[brewcrewdue80]

8 hours ago, sveumrules said:

Dodgers trade for JPF because of course they do.

Still kinda boggles the mind that the Brewers have become so good at identifying and developing pitchers recently that the Dodgers keep jumping on them.

Essentially Jimmy Nelson part 2 isn't this attempt by LA?

 

[Robocaller]

10 hours ago, sveumrules said:

Dodgers trade for JPF because of course they do.

Still kinda boggles the mind that the Brewers have become so good at identifying and developing pitchers recently that the Dodgers keep jumping on them.

Can we trade Small to them?

 

[UpandIn]

On 12/14/2022 at 8:22 PM, brewcrewdue80 said:

Essentially Jimmy Nelson part 2 isn't this attempt by LA?

 

Or Phil Bickford or Corey Knebel or...I feel like there's another one we're missing. 

But the shoulder injury makes Nelson a good comp. Then again, Nelson was on his way to becoming a workhorse TOR type pitcher when he was injured. 

[UpandIn]

On 12/11/2022 at 8:57 AM, Hacksaw Jim Duggan said:

The trade is two years old now and hindsight can be applied to the trade.  I was wondering posters evaluation of the trade.  Rassmussen is pitching like an ace.  Can you imagine the Brewers trotting out Burnes, Woodruff, Rassmussen, Peralta, and Lauer.  Plus, a Hader at the back end.  Talk about pitching heavy, also a lot easier to acquire bats than controllable pitchers on the market today. 

 

Personally, I think this trade doesn't look good to me.  Rassmussen is controllable for a couple more years.

No...not really. I can imagine Rassmussen working out of the pen for the Brewers, MAYBE becoming a swing man. 

Can you imagine the Brewers winning the division in 2021 or being competitive in '22 or trying to be in '23 without Adames?

Loved Rassmussen and was rooting for him during his long, arduous comeback. But he'd thrown ~115 innings in professional baseball and it seems like they sold him for about as much as they could have getting back a 25 year old SS who put up more WAR this past year than Rassmussen has in his entire career thus far.

Also, Rasssmussen is primarily a 2 pitch pitcher who throws 5 innings. VERY valuable. Less valuable as a reliever(how we'd have used him) than an elite defensive SS who's put up a 122 OPS+  the past two years...and it doesn't feel particularly close.

Sometimes things just works out for both sides. The Rays saw Rassmussen as a starter despite the TJ, subsequent TJ, then the 3rd surgery and thought he was worth the risk. The Brewers...who were scuffling, saw a team with a former top 20 prospect who could not hit well at the Trop and they had depth in their rotation. 

I'd love to have him as our 8th inning reliever. Not sure how much value that would have had without Adames though.