Trading the "Big Three"

[wibadgers23]

A thought just crossed my mind.  Let's say we keep Burnes, Woodruff and Adames around and then we end up making a deep run into the playoffs in 2023.  I feel like we'd be stuck in a very awkward position deciding whether to trade these guys next offseason.  Waiting until the 2024 trade deadline would really be pushing it.  I want to run it back with these guys just as much as anyone, but doing a staggered re-set might be the best way to go, which would mean trading at least one of these guys this offseason.  The timing of trading the big three is going to be tricky.

[jay87shot]

I think if there were trades available that we could get a more contollable youmg player with mlb success (like William Contreras, Alejandro Kirk) and prospects that our fo would explore that. My guess is that we explored those deals and the other teams wouldn't give up those guys with high end prospects or really low balled us.

I would still be fine with trading one of those but my guess is that the interesting packages aren't there now. Maybe as the top free agents sign and teams who missed out get worried those will develop.

[Soupbone]

Another point to consider, the money being spent by big market teams. I get it that it doesn't always equate to wins if you spend big. But one of the big spenders will get it right. The Brewers struggled last year, down the stretch, scoring runs. I just don't see that we are in much of a different spot. Two aces head a solid starting group. But our coaching staff doesn't let starters go very deep into games, lessening their overall impact. We still have to score some runs. I am all for a retool and that means trading some of our pitching. What part and when? I have no idea and I'm not in position to make any trades. Frustrating to me because of how good those guys are. We can't seem to increase spending at a time we have the pitchers. So I guess we have only the hope of "many bites of the apple"

[Robocaller]

10 hours ago, wibadgers23 said:

 I want to run it back with these guys just as much as anyone, but doing a staggered re-set might be the best way to go, which would mean trading at least one of these guys this offseason.  The timing of trading the big three is going to be tricky.

I would prefer to bring them all back, and maybe move them at the deadline in 2023 if we're not in the running for the playoffs.

But what you are offering is the worst possible choice. IMO, either you bring them all back or you trade all of them where you can get a good return. If you trade them, you concentrate on collecting players who are close to the majors (ideally players who might be called up in 2023, or 2024 at the latest).

[GAME05]

A staggered re-set with this team would work great. If one of Burnes/Woodruff were gone, you've still got a top-tier rotation but now you can hit a little better.

$40M contracts only highlights the fact that if you're not a big-spender, you better develop-and-trade. Is this Milwaukee team really a World Series contender or is it one of those who would consistently fight for the playoffs (especially being expanded) but never get much further (The Utah Jazz or past Houston Rockets of baseball)?

Or is the trade market for big stars just generally depressed these days because of the money that's out there? A team likely wouldn't trade for Burnes unless they had at least a chance at extending him, and how many teams out there could realistically do so? Five or six? And especially when it's just a few teams competing against each other for the big-time FAs, is it really better to give up your top prospects in a trade or just sign whatever top SP is on the market? 

[superfly]

I don’t really see trades happening at this point unless we have a blowup season. The value you’d get for them won’t really equal just letting them play it out and leave, that’s why nothings been done.

[Robocaller]

6 hours ago, GAME05 said:

Is this Milwaukee team really a World Series contender or is it one of those who would consistently fight for the playoffs (especially being expanded) but never get much further (The Utah Jazz or past Houston Rockets of baseball)?

The Phillies won one more game than us, and they won the WS. With the top of our rotation, it's always a possibility.

[Team Canada]

6 hours ago, Robocaller said:

The Phillies won one more game than us, and they won the WS.

Well, they went to the WS.

[rickh150]

12 hours ago, superfly said:

I don’t really see trades happening at this point unless we have a blowup season. The value you’d get for them won’t really equal just letting them play it out and leave, that’s why nothings been done.

A blowup season or in first place in July…. All bets are off. Anything could happen with these guys once the season starts. Let’s get real here.

[Brewcrew82]

4 minutes ago, rickh150 said:

A blowup season or in first place in July…. All bets are off. Anything could happen with these guys once the season starts. Let’s get real here.

And yet again you can't help but bring up the Hader trade...

[Robocaller]

3 hours ago, Team Canada said:

Well, they went to the WS.

Oops.

 

[rickh150]

2 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

And yet again you can't help but bring up the Hader trade...

And yet again you hall monitor and add nothing. 

I feel like I need to apologize for being negative about the team. Sorry. You seem to need everyone to be positive. Yes, it’s Hader and pretty much every move since then. Bush, Rosenthal, releasing Lamet, keeping Suter for the stretch drive instead of Lamet. It’s also the lack of adding any significant or even insignificant bat at the past few deadlines.

And to the current post, it’s them preaching how we are keeping our core three when all three of them are likely traded and not extended within a year and a half, regardless of how well we are playing.  And the returns of the trades with Renfroe and Wong were very underwhelming to me. It looks like we badly need to cut payroll when I think most fans would like the team to add to it for a couple of seasons IF we are actually trying to make a legitimate push to win the division and advance in the playoffs with a couple of aces in our pocket.

Hoping for some good transactions in the next few months. We’ll see. Getting a solid catcher would be great and an everyday infielder somewhere that can hit dare I say above .260 with a .780+ OPS would be nice. I really want to be positive about the team, but I just don’t see the positive now.

 

[Brewcrew82]

43 minutes ago, rickh150 said:

And yet again you hall monitor and add nothing. 

I feel like I need to apologize for being negative about the team. Sorry. You seem to need everyone to be positive. Yes, it’s Hader and pretty much every move since then. Bush, Rosenthal, releasing Lamet, keeping Suter for the stretch drive instead of Lamet. It’s also the lack of adding any significant or even insignificant bat at the past few deadlines.

And to the current post, it’s them preaching how we are keeping our core three when all three of them are likely traded and not extended within a year and a half, regardless of how well we are playing.  And the returns of the trades with Renfroe and Wong were very underwhelming to me. It looks like we badly need to cut payroll when I think most fans would like the team to add to it for a couple of seasons IF we are actually trying to make a legitimate push to win the division and advance in the playoffs with a couple of aces in our pocket.

Hoping for some good transactions in the next few months. We’ll see. Getting a solid catcher would be great and an everyday infielder somewhere that can hit dare I say above .260 with a .780+ OPS would be nice. I really want to be positive about the team, but I just don’t see the positive now.

 

I don't care about the negativity. I may not agree with it, but that's your right so long as you seek to engage in honest conversation. 

But you do realize that literally every post you make contains a reference to the Hader trade and your hatred of it in one form or another? And that is not an exaggeration....The horse is dead at this point, just let it lie. It's a new season and a new offseason. No need to keep bringing it into every thread you post in. 

[rickh150]

9 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

I don't care about the negativity. I may not agree with it, but that's your right so long as you seek to engage in honest conversation. 

But you do realize that literally every post you make contains a reference to the Hader trade and your hatred of it in one form or another? And that is not an exaggeration....The horse is dead at this point, just let it lie. It's a new season and a new offseason. No need to keep bringing it into every thread you post in. 

I disagree. I bring up the whole pattern of the Brewers not adding/helping the major league team over the last half season and really each deadline since 2020….the last three. And you say it is dead. I do not. I need to see change where we actually are helping the mlb team otherwise I continue to be ticked. Sign or trade for some good mlb players, not minor league projects or bounce back candidates. If we are trying to compete this year, that HAS TO HAPPEN. We will see. 

 

[Brewcrew82]

2 hours ago, rickh150 said:

I disagree. I bring up the whole pattern of the Brewers not adding/helping the major league team over the last half season and really each deadline since 2020….the last three. And you say it is dead. I do not. I need to see change where we actually are helping the mlb team otherwise I continue to be ticked. Sign or trade for some good mlb players, not minor league projects or bounce back candidates. If we are trying to compete this year, that HAS TO HAPPEN. We will see. 

 

I seem to recall them adding to the MLB club at the 2021 deadline by trading for Escobar and a couple of relievers. The relievers may have ultimately flopped, but that was certainly "adding" and Escobar OPSed .800 for us. Not to mention they tried to trade for Bryan Reynolds and Max Scherzer, but were rebuffed and/or outbid. 

[rickh150]

Escobar was a nice add. I forgot about him. That was a positive.

[UpandIn]

21 hours ago, rickh150 said:

And the returns of the trades with Renfroe and Wong were very underwhelming to me. It looks like we badly need to cut payroll when I think most fans would like the team to add to it for a couple of seasons IF we are actually trying to make a legitimate push to win the division and advance in the playoffs with a couple of aces in our pocket.

.288

.385

.504

.888

Winker's career line heading into last year.

What would you possibly have considered overwhelming in return for Wong? A player we were likely to buyout for 2 million and nothing in return until he had a 3HR game and went on a small late season run and is now...Winker and a former top prospect who can play all over the IF.

Renfroe...I hated that trade...because it makes us worse vs LHed pitchers. But how was Wong underwhelming? 

[Robocaller]

2 hours ago, UpandIn said:

.288

.385

.504

.888

Winker's career line heading into last year.

What would you possibly have considered overwhelming in return for Wong? A player we were likely to buyout for 2 million and nothing in return until he had a 3HR game and went on a small late season run and is now...Winker and a former top prospect who can play all over the IF.

Renfroe...I hated that trade...because it makes us worse vs LHed pitchers. But how was Wong underwhelming? 

The Brewers could have refused the option and paid Wong $2M.
Instead, they paid the Mariners $1.75M and got two players who were at least worth taking a shot on. Viewed that way, it won't take much for the Brewers to have come out ahead on this trade. Now, if they're paying Winker $8+M and he hasn't recovered from his surgeries, that makes things different.

 

[brewmann04]

I sure the brewers did their medical on Jesse 

[Robocaller]

1 hour ago, brewmann04 said:

I sure the brewers did their medical on Jesse 

How could they? I read he couldn't start baseball activities until January, and that was just an estimate.

[UpandIn]

10 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

I seem to recall them adding to the MLB club at the 2021 deadline by trading for Escobar and a couple of relievers. The relievers may have ultimately flopped, but that was certainly "adding" and Escobar OPSed .800 for us. Not to mention they tried to trade for Bryan Reynolds and Max Scherzer, but were rebuffed and/or outbid. 

Also...2020? The 16-19 Brewers. Not sure that's a strong point. 

We added Escobar, made maybe our worst trade yet by dealing Reece Olson for Norris(but he had been good) and...pretty sure we added at least one other pitcher. Didn't work out.

Last year Bush, Rosenthal, Rogers for Hader, then two good prospects doesn't seem like selling. I don't buy the whole, "it ruined the clubhouse," and it was such a bad move. That seems like it's done to appease the fan base. 

 

[LouisEly]

Back to the Big Three... a small market team can't let assets expire.   They either have to extend them or trade them; a comp pick is likely the worst case scenario as far as future team success.  See where they are on July 20th, 2023 and then decide to move any of them then or in the following offseason if they are far apart in extension talks.

[MrTPlush]

I love Winker’s career line and all…but if teams actually thought he could get remotely close to that, we wouldn’t have been swapping Wong for Winker…plus they had to add another player to even get it done.

Maybe he can surprise everyone around the league…but clearly there isn’t any confidence in that actually happening.

[82brewcrew82]

10 hours ago, Robocaller said:

How could they? I read he couldn't start baseball activities until January, and that was just an estimate.

What does that have to do with the Brewers doing their medical due diligence? The Brewers have doctors that talk to other doctors and review medical information independently.  Based on those reviews the Brewers either have a high degree of confidence he will be fine.  I mean, this really is baseball 101 stuff.

[82brewcrew82]

2 hours ago, MrTPlush said:

I love Winker’s career line and all…but if teams actually thought he could get remotely close to that, we wouldn’t have been swapping Wong for Winker…plus they had to add another player to even get it done.

Maybe he can surprise everyone around the league…but clearly there isn’t any confidence in that actually happening.

If I remember correctly the rumors were that the Mariners were after Wong, not that the Brewers were after Winker.  Aside from the fact that we don't know if other teams were after Winker or not, it is equally possible the Brewers were their preferred match.  Or, maybe the Brewers just made a shrewd move before another team could.  Your premise makes a lot of debatable assumptions.