Rumor: Arnold says Brewers looking to improve at catcher

[Jopal78]

17 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Vazquez obviously makes the most sense on a two year deal as you wouldn't have to give up prospects and he would be able to help form a bridge to Quero. However, with the markets rumored to be involved and the trajectory of the FA market this offseason, I don't think it'll happen.

Murphy is the top trade candidate. However, the asking price there is enormous, with the A's reportedly having asked for Nootbar, Donovan, Graceffo, plus from the Cards. For the Brewers, that would be like Frelick, Turang, and Gasser as a starting point, with Ashby perhaps having to be included as well. Again, unlikely.

Which brings us back to Toronto and Danny Jansen. He should be about half the cost of Murphy and would likewise be able to manage the C position until Quero arrives. Jansen also carries with him some upside, considering he's been a backup his whole career and has still put up a 123 OPS+ over the past two seasons with above average batted ball metrics. I'd give Toronto an OF not named Chourio or Frelick, along with Eric Lauer and a lottery ticket. That's a fair trade for both sides imo. 

D'Arnaud would also be more than acceptable to me. It's just a question of whether the Braves are going to trade him, or if they want to keep him and play Contreras at DH or in the OF. He should cost around the same or a little less than Jansen, but also has more downside as he's already 33. 

You're right about Jansen, he has been a back up his whole career and prior to this season-certainly didn't turn a lot of heads with his play (.690 OPS). 

As to your hypothetical, 2 years of Lauer, 6 years of say Garrett Mitchell plus another player for 2 years of a part time catcher is a pretty big gamble for Milwaukee.  Moreover, I don't know if that trade even really improves the '23 Brewers as they would then have to find someone to cover the 158 innings Lauer pitched. 

As much as I would like them to wind up with Vazquez,  the money these players are getting is insane and probably makes it unrealistic that Milwaukee signs a front line free agent.

Rather,  I would expect them to be shopping in the bargain aisle (Alfaro, Gary Sanchez, Narvaez), or swinging a trade to get Manny Pina or someone of that ilk to pair with Caratini. The Brewers also have Feliciano who will be using his final option in '23

[sveumrules]

13 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

You're right about Jansen, he has been a back up his whole career

In 2019 Jansen started 94 games for Toronto at catcher after coming into the season ranked #42 (BA), #65 (MLB) and #89 (BPro) on the various preseason Top 100s.

He also started 40 of 60 games in 2020.

He then started 33 of the first 57 games behind the dish in 2021 before going on the DL.

[sveumrules]

13 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

You're right about Jansen, he has been a back up his whole career

In 2019 Jansen started 94 games for Toronto at catcher after coming into the season ranked #42 (BA), #65 (MLB) and #89 (BPro) on the various preseason Top 100s.

He also started 40 of 60 games in 2020.

He then started 33 of the first 57 games behind the dish in 2021 before going on the DL.

[brewmann04]

I am thinking the best asset is getting Vazquez to bride the gap to Felicano and Quero are ready for full time behind the plate.

[brewmann04]

I am thinking the best asset is getting Vazquez to bride the gap to Felicano and Quero are ready for full time behind the plate.

[DR28]

54 minutes ago, brewmann04 said:

I am thinking the best asset is getting Vazquez to bride the gap to Felicano and Quero are ready for full time behind the plate.

I agree but I just dont see us giving him 3-4 years, especially when big market teams are in on him as well.

Would love to add him, just dont see it happening.

[DR28]

54 minutes ago, brewmann04 said:

I am thinking the best asset is getting Vazquez to bride the gap to Felicano and Quero are ready for full time behind the plate.

I agree but I just dont see us giving him 3-4 years, especially when big market teams are in on him as well.

Would love to add him, just dont see it happening.

[Jopal78]

1 hour ago, sveumrules said:

In 2019 Jansen started 94 games for Toronto at catcher after coming into the season ranked #42 (BA), #65 (MLB) and #89 (BPro) on the various preseason Top 100s.

He also started 40 of 60 games in 2020.

He then started 33 of the first 57 games behind the dish in 2021 before going on the DL.

Yep, depends how you want to define it I suppose. Suffice to say Toronto has played someone else at catcher most of the time since '20

In 2022--Kirk had 74 starts at catcher, Moreno made 19, and Zack Collins made 14...107 games started by someone besides Jansen. 

In 2021--Reese McGuire had 69 starts at catcher, Kirk made 41... 110 starts made by someone besides Jansen.  

As you pointed out in 2020, Jansen started most the games with Reese McGuire making 12 starts, Kirk with 7 starts and Caleb Joseph with 2. 

In 2019 - Luke Maile made 41 starts and Reese McGuire with 25 starts, Jansen getting the rest

In 2018 Maile made 57 starts, Reese McGuire with 10, and Russell Martin with 70, with Jansen third on the depth chart this season. 

For comparision sake... Manny Pina and Martin Maldonado would typically  make about 75 starts a year for Milwaukee when they were the #2 catcher. 

[Jopal78]

1 hour ago, sveumrules said:

In 2019 Jansen started 94 games for Toronto at catcher after coming into the season ranked #42 (BA), #65 (MLB) and #89 (BPro) on the various preseason Top 100s.

He also started 40 of 60 games in 2020.

He then started 33 of the first 57 games behind the dish in 2021 before going on the DL.

Yep, depends how you want to define it I suppose. Suffice to say Toronto has played someone else at catcher most of the time since '20

In 2022--Kirk had 74 starts at catcher, Moreno made 19, and Zack Collins made 14...107 games started by someone besides Jansen. 

In 2021--Reese McGuire had 69 starts at catcher, Kirk made 41... 110 starts made by someone besides Jansen.  

As you pointed out in 2020, Jansen started most the games with Reese McGuire making 12 starts, Kirk with 7 starts and Caleb Joseph with 2. 

In 2019 - Luke Maile made 41 starts and Reese McGuire with 25 starts, Jansen getting the rest

In 2018 Maile made 57 starts, Reese McGuire with 10, and Russell Martin with 70, with Jansen third on the depth chart this season. 

For comparision sake... Manny Pina and Martin Maldonado would typically  make about 75 starts a year for Milwaukee when they were the #2 catcher. 

[clancyphile]

Why not roll with Caratini/Feliciano? Mario's not hit poorly, and if we have young pichers, he's worked with them to some degree in the past, the familiarity could help.

I'd be willing to go three eyars for Vasquez as the bridge to Quero and Darrien Miller. 

One other thought... how about offering Atlanta Hedbert Perez or Joe Gray Jr. for Manny Pina?

[clancyphile]

Why not roll with Caratini/Feliciano? Mario's not hit poorly, and if we have young pichers, he's worked with them to some degree in the past, the familiarity could help.

I'd be willing to go three eyars for Vasquez as the bridge to Quero and Darrien Miller. 

One other thought... how about offering Atlanta Hedbert Perez or Joe Gray Jr. for Manny Pina?

[StearnsFTW]

I'm a little surprised at the Feliciano love.  There is absolutely no indication that he will ever be a big-leaguer.

 

And if they give up Hedbert Perez for Manny freaking Pina I will not be a happy camper.

 

[StearnsFTW]

I'm a little surprised at the Feliciano love.  There is absolutely no indication that he will ever be a big-leaguer.

 

And if they give up Hedbert Perez for Manny freaking Pina I will not be a happy camper.

 

[wibadgers23]

35 minutes ago, StearnsFTW said:

I'm a little surprised at the Feliciano love.  There is absolutely no indication that he will ever be a big-leaguer.

 

And if they give up Hedbert Perez for Manny freaking Pina I will not be a happy camper.

 

Yeah I get the feeling the Brewers aren’t all that high on Feliciano. They had many opportunities last season to call him up due to injuries and non-productive play from the catching position and he was up once for two whole games.

[wibadgers23]

35 minutes ago, StearnsFTW said:

I'm a little surprised at the Feliciano love.  There is absolutely no indication that he will ever be a big-leaguer.

 

And if they give up Hedbert Perez for Manny freaking Pina I will not be a happy camper.

 

Yeah I get the feeling the Brewers aren’t all that high on Feliciano. They had many opportunities last season to call him up due to injuries and non-productive play from the catching position and he was up once for two whole games.

[DR28]

Curious if Rangers would deal Mitch Garver? Seems like Heim is their everyday C.

[CheeseheadInQC]

Maybe I will be wrong, and there have been some absurdly long contracts given out this year, but recent history would suggest Vasquez isn’t going to get the long term deal he is seeking. It has been almost a decade since a catcher of Vasquez’s age and caliber got more than two years.

Maybe the weak catching market gets him three, but I would wager it is more likely he settles for two than gets four.

[Robocaller]

1 hour ago, StearnsFTW said:

I'm a little surprised at the Feliciano love.  There is absolutely no indication that he will ever be a big-leaguer.

 

well, other than that he has been on the 26 man major league roster, and has hit well in the minors.

his defense is (supposedly) the only thing holding him back.

 

[StearnsFTW]

42 minutes ago, Robocaller said:

well, other than that he has been on the 26 man major league roster, and has hit well in the minors.

his defense is (supposedly) the only thing holding him back.

 

Eh.  His hitting in the minors has been OK.  Certainly not anything to get excited about.

 

Yeah, he's been on the roster.  I think you know what I meant when I said major leaguer.  6 PA isn't really a thing.

 

[JohnBriggs12]

21 hours ago, reillymcshane said:

Vasquez makes the most sense to me. Probably take a three year deal. 

Vasquez said playing time will be a key in his decision. He doesn't want to be a part timer. The Brewers could probably offer that - giving him 110-120 starts a year. 

There is no one in the system knocking on the door right now. Quero is at least a couple of years away - so three years would probably work all right for Milwaukee's purposes. 

If it takes a four year deal to get Vasquez, I doubt we go there. But someone else might. 

I definitely think it will take a 3 year deal and the Brewers are so in need of an upgrade that I think they'd agree to that.  It's going to come down to money and with all the suitors out there, Vazquez is in a very strong position.  That's likely part of the reason the Brewers aren't looking at mid level FA veteran types for 3B.  They know they'll need to pay more than they want to for Vazquez and even that may not be enough.  

[Jopal78]

1 hour ago, StearnsFTW said:

I'm a little surprised at the Feliciano love.  There is absolutely no indication that he will ever be a big-leaguer.

 

And if they give up Hedbert Perez for Manny freaking Pina I will not be a happy camper.

 

I don't know if there is Feliciano "love" per se. Rather, he's a player the Brewers added to the 40 man roster when was in A+ ball and have not taken back his 40 man spot, despite other curious moves. Him getting a shot at the major league roster would at least make the other moves seem logical (trading a player for Alex Jackson, then Jackson is outrighted off the roster, Severino being sent packing, outrighting Luke Maile, etc. )

[Outlander]

I think Ashby and one of Mitchell/Taylor/Turang is fair for Murphy. If the Brewers are out of their window after year 2 could trade him for some pretty decent prospects too.

Of course the Brewers are not going to offer Hedbert Perez for Pina, the Braves will be lucky to have somebody take him for nothing.

Also agree on Feliciano, not a lot of love, just that this is his last option year so he needs to show he can be a major league caliber player.

[wntrtxn21]

6 hours ago, DR28 said:

Man Gary Sanchez would be interesting... Would give us RH power bat.

How's his D?

I don't see Sanchez in any way.  2020; .147/.253/.618 OPS -- 2021: .204/.307/.730 OPS -- 2022: .205/.282/.659. He made $9M last year.  Aren't those numbers very similiar to the reason they dumped Narvaez? 

[wntrtxn21]

1 hour ago, DR28 said:

Curious if Rangers would deal Mitch Garver? Seems like Heim is their everyday C.

I think you're right about Heim, the Rangers seem to like him. I wonder about Huff from the Rangers.  Younger guy with lots of control. Looks to be a MLB average or slightly above average catcher. Garver is going to be 32 and hit (.207/.298) last year. He is in the final year of his contract and going to make approx. $4.5M. 

[StearnsFTW]

Love in this thread.

 

I thought that was clear.