Rule V pickups...

[clancyphile]

With the Rule 5 lists final for this season... is there anyone the Crew should think about grabbing?

Here are a few who are intriguing:

Malcolm Nunez, 3B/1B, Pirates - https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=nunez-002mal

RHP Thad Ward, Red Sox - https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=ward--000tha

LHP Erik Miller, Phillies - https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=miller007eri

LHP Antione Kelly, Rangers - https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=kelly-000ant

IF Tanner Morris, Blue Jays - https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=morris000tan

Three options to fill in the bullpen, not to mention a possible UT guy to replace Peterson, and maybe an outside contender for third base.

[DR28]

I'll take Antoine Kelly back! Just not sure he would be ready to be on ML roster all year.

[clancyphile]

I could see him ready to be a bullpen arm/reliever.

Could buy time for Small to get into form, or I always saw moving him to the pen as a way to rocket him to the majors that much faster.

[UpandIn]

4 hours ago, DR28 said:

I'll take Antoine Kelly back! Just not sure he would be ready to be on ML roster all year.

I loved Kelly. He looked great. But with a limit of 13 pitchers on the roster, this is tough to pull off. 90 days, a few blisters pop up? I don't know, could be a good idea. 

[brewmann04]

I can't see them keeping Kelly for the full season

[clancyphile]

3 hours ago, brewmann04 said:

I can't see them keeping Kelly for the full season

As a 1-2 inning guy, one trip through the order? Makes a nice supplement.

Heck, I think he might even be MLB-ready for late-inning stuff. Think a Hader replacement.

[Brewcrew82]

10 minutes ago, clancyphile said:

 

Heck, I think he might even be MLB-ready for late-inning stuff. Think a Hader replacement.

Are you actually serious???

[clancyphile]

4 minutes ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Are you actually serious???

Yeah. It's a low-risk move ($100,000K), and if it pans out, great. Next-best case, he's a cheap replacement for Milner.

[Brewcrew82]

1 minute ago, clancyphile said:

Yeah. It's a low-risk move ($100,000K), and if it pans out, great. Next-best case, he's a cheap replacement for Milner.

Nothing that Kelly has done in the minor leagues suggests he's even ready to be in the majors, let alone be a late-inning reliever or a "Hader replacement". That's just not living in reality. 

[wntrtxn21]

17 minutes ago, clancyphile said:

As a 1-2 inning guy, one trip through the order? Makes a nice supplement.

Heck, I think he might even be MLB-ready for late-inning stuff. Think a Hader replacement.

The Rangers are looking for pitching. They didn't see him being worth even a spot on their 40 man roster.  I can't imagine having to keep him up all year. 

[Robocaller]

Thanks for starting this thread.

Here's a couple I found reading articles where fans are crying about the players their team left unprotected.

This guy is a RHH 1B/3B (mostly at 3B) who spent 239 ABs on the NYY AA team hitting 19 HR during that time. 
https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=chapar000and

 

This guy is a LHH C (who can play some OF) and made it to Pittsburgh's AAA for 101 AB. Probably not great in the field (17% CS in his minor league career) but has hit great. But could be a third catcher/utility guy.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=sabol-000bla

[Robocaller]

7 hours ago, UpandIn said:

I loved Kelly. He looked great. But with a limit of 13 pitchers on the roster, this is tough to pull off. 90 days, a few blisters pop up? I don't know, could be a good idea. 

I know a guy who could push him down a flight of stairs. Keep him on rehab assignment the whole year.

 

[Robocaller]

12 hours ago, clancyphile said:

With the Rule 5 lists final for this season... is there anyone the Crew should think about grabbing?

Here are a few who are intriguing:

Malcolm Nunez, 3B/1B, Pirates - https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=nunez-002mal

RHP Thad Ward, Red Sox - https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=ward--000tha

LHP Erik Miller, Phillies - https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=miller007eri

LHP Antione Kelly, Rangers - https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=kelly-000ant

IF Tanner Morris, Blue Jays - https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=morris000tan

Three options to fill in the bullpen, not to mention a possible UT guy to replace Peterson, and maybe an outside contender for third base.

Nunez is a possibility, though he'd probably be a wasted roster spot in 2023 (He's a baby). I don't think any of the pitchers could be kept on the roster all season. I think Kelley might eventually be a solid #2 starter, but he won't be ready for even limited use in 2023. Morris is far worse than Cam Devanney, whom the Brewers exposed in the rule 5 draft, so they're certainly not keeping Morris on the 26 man roster.
 

 

[Outlander]

8 hours ago, Robocaller said:

I know a guy who could push him down a flight of stairs. Keep him on rehab assignment the whole year.

 

But then he would have to be in the majors in 2024. I think there is the possibility a bad team could take him but the cost/benefit isn't there for the Brewers, a team trying to win in 2023.

[Robocaller]

4 hours ago, Outlander said:

But then he would have to be in the majors in 2024. I think there is the possibility a bad team could take him but the cost/benefit isn't there for the Brewers, a team trying to win in 2023.

I don't think so, unless they changed the rule--he only has to stay in the majors in 2023. He has options. He could be kept on the 40 man in 2024 and spend it in the minors.

And I hope you know I wasn't serious about pushing him down the stairs. 

[UpandIn]

23 minutes ago, Robocaller said:

I don't think so, unless they changed the rule--he only has to stay in the majors in 2023. He has options. He could be kept on the 40 man in 2024 and spend it in the minors.

And I hope you know I wasn't serious about pushing him down the stairs. 

He's gotta spend 90 days up I believe. Unless it's changed. 

It seems like there are a lot of talented players are exposed. But a lefty who can hit triple digits and has a plus slider? Better risk than Wang. Plus, we've already had him in the system. 

I didn't like the Bush trade at the time because I didn't want to get rid of him, so it'd be cool to get him back. There's also 2-3 40 man spots that we could realistically open up. I'll definitely swap out Antoine for Trevor Kelly. 

[UpandIn]

17 hours ago, wntrtxn21 said:

The Rangers are looking for pitching. They didn't see him being worth even a spot on their 40 man roster.  I can't imagine having to keep him up all year. 

I hate this argument. Lots of teams make mistakes. The Rangers had half a year to evaluate him after he came back from two years of not pitching in live games and struggled after moving up to AA. 

Lots of players get picked in the later rounds, players are not protected and go on to be extremely successful. Even the Padres looking for closers have traded Clase and Bednar.

Quote

Nothing that Kelly has done in the minor leagues suggests he's even ready to be in the majors, let alone be a late-inning reliever or a "Hader replacement". That's just not living in reality. 

It'd be silly to select him with the expectation that he's going to contribute to the team this year. 

BUT...he does have the type of stuff where he could eventually turn into that type of role. It's more likely than the Ethan Small->Josh Hader comp or...I don't know, Clancy has projected a lot of future Hader's, but as someone you just try and get through the year with, he could be interesting. 

It's also not that crazy that if could become an asset out of the pen if he's just throwing his FB/Slider and not worrying about trying to hold his stuff for 5-6 innings and throw a 3rd pitch. But he hasn't had success above A+, so...again, that shouldn't really be a factor this year.

 

[Robocaller]

1 hour ago, UpandIn said:

He's gotta spend 90 days up I believe. Unless it's changed. 

It seems like there are a lot of talented players are exposed. But a lefty who can hit triple digits and has a plus slider? Better risk than Wang. Plus, we've already had him in the system. 

I didn't like the Bush trade at the time because I didn't want to get rid of him, so it'd be cool to get him back. There's also 2-3 40 man spots that we could realistically open up. I'll definitely swap out Antoine for Trevor Kelly. 

Having Kelly on the 40 man is malfeasance in office for Arnold. Particularly if we lose Devanney.

 

[UpandIn]

5 minutes ago, Robocaller said:

Having Kelly on the 40 man is malfeasance in office for Arnold. Particularly if we lose Devanney.

 

Yeah, I don't really get it. A plus defender at SS and 3B, hit for power...

Hopefully we don't...and then we can call him up or send him down depending on what we need.

[wntrtxn21]

1 hour ago, UpandIn said:

He's gotta spend 90 days up I believe. Unless it's changed. 

It seems like there are a lot of talented players are exposed. But a lefty who can hit triple digits and has a plus slider? Better risk than Wang. Plus, we've already had him in the system. 

I didn't like the Bush trade at the time because I didn't want to get rid of him, so it'd be cool to get him back. There's also 2-3 40 man spots that we could realistically open up. I'll definitely swap out Antoine for Trevor Kelly. 

The Rule 5 player has to spend the entire season in the majors or placed on outright waivers. If he clears waivers he has to be offered back to the original club for 1/2 the p/u price. The 90 days refers to any injury claim. If the club claims he's injured and he hasn't been on the roster for at least 90 day, he is subject to unrevokable waivers. 

[UpandIn]

11 minutes ago, wntrtxn21 said:

The Rule 5 player has to spend the entire season in the majors or placed on outright waivers. If he clears waivers he has to be offered back to the original club for 1/2 the p/u price. The 90 days refers to any injury claim. If the club claims he's injured and he hasn't been on the roster for at least 90 day, he is subject to unrevokable waivers. 

So you're saying if the Brewers pick up a player in the Rule 5 and he...injuries his arm or has an oblique(whatever) before he's been on the active roster for 90 days, then he has to be offered back to the original club?

That has to be a very recent change...

[Redd Vencher]

39 minutes ago, UpandIn said:

So you're saying if the Brewers pick up a player in the Rule 5 and he...injuries his arm or has an oblique(whatever) before he's been on the active roster for 90 days, then he has to be offered back to the original club?

That has to be a very recent change...

A Rule 5 player has to spend 90 days on the active roster before the Rule 5 waiver requirements are up. Putting Kelley on the IL for 2023 to avoid having him on the active roster doesn't exhaust that requirement for 2024.

[UpandIn]

6 hours ago, Redd Vencher said:

A Rule 5 player has to spend 90 days on the active roster before the Rule 5 waiver requirements are up. Putting Kelley on the IL for 2023 to avoid having him on the active roster doesn't exhaust that requirement for 2024.

Yes, I know that. That was the first sentence in my post.

8 hours ago, UpandIn said:

He's gotta spend 90 days up I believe. Unless it's changed. 

They altered it slightly in '20...obviously given the 60 game season, so it was 40 days. 

However, this comment made me wonder if they'd changed the process somehow;

7 hours ago, wntrtxn21 said:

The 90 days refers to any injury claim. If the club claims he's injured and he hasn't been on the roster for at least 90 day, he is subject to unrevokable waivers. 

This reads to me that if...hypothetically, Antoine Kelly was claimed in the rule 5 and was on the OD roster, and after 30 days on the active roster, he had an injury, an oblique, fatigue, whatever, then he is subject to waivers(there is no longer revokable waivers since '19, so just waivers). 

 

I was simply suggesting they could, depending on the time of the year, us the IL when they need another arm. This obviously goes for any pitcher, but this just so happens to be a lefty that was in our system and who's stuff is objectively elite(albeit raw and his command hasn't developed...though he did miss 2 years of his development). 

On 11/16/2022 at 5:45 PM, UpandIn said:

I loved Kelly. He looked great. But with a limit of 13 pitchers on the roster, this is tough to pull off. 90 days, a few blisters pop up? I don't know, could be a good idea. 

So when someone tells me if you claim a pitcher is injured, they're subject to waivers. That doesn't sound right...but perhaps it's in place to discourage teams from stashing players. I don't know...seems unlikely, but a lot changed the last couple years. 

[Robocaller]

I went to the MLB.com site and the wording of the rule is not clear to me. However, this caught my attention: 

Quote

Rule 5 Draft picks are assigned directly to the drafting club's 26-man roster and must be placed on outright waivers in order to be removed from the 26-man roster in the subsequent season

That seems like a change that greatly limits the utility of making a rule 5 selection; effectively they have no options left because you have to waive them to send them back to the minors (in perpetuity, or at least the next season). So it only makes sense for players you feel you'll never demote (or you can work out a trade with the original team).

[jay87shot]

I can't see us using a roster spot on any of these guys. If we're rebuilding sure take the biggest arm or toolsy-ist bat. We have better AAA arms like Hobie Harris who deserve a shot and some utility type bats like Cam Devanney who wouldn't cost anything and can stay in the organization if they need to be sent down.