Brewers pick up Wong's option.

[SF70]

42 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

Yep, three months out of six in AAA this year, and basically 3 months out of 5 years in the minors. You’re right he’s really shown them!

Seems like there’s a lot of “buts”… His season numbers aren’t great BUT he was awesome for three months. BUT he was young for his league etc. 

Without the BUTs he sure hasn’t forced the Brewers hand.

Turang’s ascension in the box came in the second-half of last season — it’s called prospect development.

[monty57]

4 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

Yep, three months out of six in AAA this year, and basically 3 months out of 5 years in the minors. You’re right he’s really shown them!

Seems like there’s a lot of “buts”… His season numbers aren’t great BUT he was awesome for three months. BUT he was young for his league etc. 

Without the BUTs he sure hasn’t forced the Brewers hand.

There’s some validity to this. Turang is a good prospect, and I look forward to his career with the Brewers. However, the Brewers just picked up Wong’s option rather than handing the job to Turang. 
 

I don’t think Turang has to be on the MLB roster. I’d be fine if he continues to develop in AAA until someone gets hurt, at which time he can start for a couple weeks and then head back down. His real opportunity will be when Adames is gone and he can be the everyday SS. He’s much more valuable there than he is anywhere else. 

[Brewcrew82]

5 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

Yep, three months out of six in AAA this year, and basically 3 months out of 5 years in the minors. You’re right he’s really shown them!

Seems like there’s a lot of “buts”… His season numbers aren’t great BUT he was awesome for three months. BUT he was young for his league etc. 

Without the BUTs he sure hasn’t forced the Brewers hand.

There’s no BUTs at all. He’s a top 100 prospect for a reason. And we sorely could use his elite defense/contact/speed profile on the MLB roster. That he showed significantly more power post June is exciting because lack of power has been the one thing separating him from being an uber elite prospect. Regardless, he’s a good prospect, and we can use him.

[UpandIn]

10 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

Yep, three months out of six in AAA this year, and basically 3 months out of 5 years in the minors. You’re right he’s really shown them!

Seems like there’s a lot of “buts”… His season numbers aren’t great BUT he was awesome for three months. BUT he was young for his league etc. 

Without the BUTs he sure hasn’t forced the Brewers hand.

I mean, it's more just kinda common sense. When you hit AAA at 21 and you hold your own, it's impressive. 

Then when you finish up the last half of the year and you...what was the metric he needed to reach, "take apart" AAA pitching...I wouldn't say there are any buts. 

It's a really tough concept, but it's evidence of GROWTH. 

You said why not bring him up until he's had more success. I showed you he had the success and...now it's moving goalposts. 

Let me ask you a question...seriously. How many months would YOU like to see him..."fortified" in AAA? Also, what do you think fortified means and how does that apply to a shortstop OFFENSIVELY?

[UpandIn]

6 hours ago, monty57 said:

There’s some validity to this. Turang is a good prospect, and I look forward to his career with the Brewers. However, the Brewers just picked up Wong’s option rather than handing the job to Turang. 
 

I don’t think Turang has to be on the MLB roster. I’d be fine if he continues to develop in AAA until someone gets hurt, at which time he can start for a couple weeks and then head back down. His real opportunity will be when Adames is gone and he can be the everyday SS. He’s much more valuable there than he is anywhere else. 

Yeah, sure, there's some validity to the argument that you can leave him down there and let him get stronger...he's only 22(23 to start next year), so it's not like we're talking about a 27 year old prospect.

There's NO validity to his argument. He IS a 22 year old prospect and pointing out that for the last 3 months of the season, he was outstanding simply shows he's developing. It's not about excuses, it's not about the "buts," it's evidence he's a good prospect. 

I'd rather see him playing everyday than play the "super utility" role that's been suggested and I've said that. Jace Peterson was great at it. Young players generally struggle. But Jopal tried to paint Turang's season as unsuccessful and has some WILDLY unrealistic expectations. 

Turang AAA=175 Games 14 HRs(10 in the 2nd half of this past season). 43 Stolen Bases

.277

.365

.391

.756

Adames AAA=196 Games 15 HRs(3 on rehab assignments last year). 

.280

.359

.417

.777

 

So if you want to argue we don't need him with Urias/Brosseau/Adames/Wong, or, as I'd argue, he's better served getting regular ABs, that's a TOTALLY different argument than he needs to..."fortify" himself against the likes of Verlander and Kershaw. 

[Jopal78]

15 hours ago, UpandIn said:

Yeah, sure, there's some validity to the argument that you can leave him down there and let him get stronger...he's only 22(23 to start next year), so it's not like we're talking about a 27 year old prospect.

There's NO validity to his argument. He IS a 22 year old prospect and pointing out that for the last 3 months of the season, he was outstanding simply shows he's developing. It's not about excuses, it's not about the "buts," it's evidence he's a good prospect. 

I'd rather see him playing everyday than play the "super utility" role that's been suggested and I've said that. Jace Peterson was great at it. Young players generally struggle. But Jopal tried to paint Turang's season as unsuccessful and has some WILDLY unrealistic expectations. 

Turang AAA=175 Games 14 HRs(10 in the 2nd half of this past season). 43 Stolen Bases

.277

.365

.391

.756

Adames AAA=196 Games 15 HRs(3 on rehab assignments last year). 

.280

.359

.417

.777

 

So if you want to argue we don't need him with Urias/Brosseau/Adames/Wong, or, as I'd argue, he's better served getting regular ABs, that's a TOTALLY different argument than he needs to..."fortify" himself against the likes of Verlander and Kershaw. 

Talk about moving goalposts! Not even Justin Tucker could score on you. Anyways, time will tell. It’s a good problem to have when you have more good players than spots available. As of right now there’s likely not a GM in baseball trying to win, that would hand Turang a spot based on what he’s done to date. 

If Turang hits with an .800 plus OPS in AAA he’ll probably be in the majors sooner than later. But they’re wise to simply not hand a spot to him right now for the reasons articulated previously. 

[Thurston Fluff]

It's better not to have to rely on an unproven player no matter what he's done at that point. Yet at some point that has to happen. Better to have that reliance start as an injury replacement when necessary than as the primary player going into the season. Let him start in AAA and get him some major league time when he's needed.

[UpandIn]

5 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

Talk about moving goalposts! Not even Justin Tucker could score on you

Give me literally ONE example?

5 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

If Turang hits with an .800 plus OPS in AAA he’ll probably be in the majors sooner than later. But they’re wise to simply not hand a spot to him right now for the reasons articulated previously. 

You really didn't articulate any though. He hadn't really hit AAA pitching. I showed you he had...at 22 years old as a Shortstop. 

5 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

As of right now there’s likely not a GM in baseball trying to win, that would hand Turang a spot based on what he’s done to date. 

Ah...yes, the old, "Everyone would agree with me because I say so" argument. 

You miss the part where Tampa Bay "handed" Adames a job based on nearly identical AAA numbers? Ya know, the team we should model ourselves after?

So that's one GM just right off the top of my head. 

[Robocaller]

On 11/12/2022 at 6:14 AM, Jopal78 said:

Yep, three months out of six in AAA this year, and basically 3 months out of 5 years in the minors. You’re right he’s really shown them!

Seems like there’s a lot of “buts”… His season numbers aren’t great BUT he was awesome for three months. BUT he was young for his league etc. 

Without the BUTs he sure hasn’t forced the Brewers hand.

The "buts" are hugely important in prospect evaluation. Recency of production is important. Age of the prospect relative to average age in the league is important. A guy who can strike out 13+ guys per 9IP is going to be a prospect even if he hasn't got good command (or a 3rd pitch) yet.  

[markedman5]

 

[reillymcshane]

37 minutes ago, markedman5 said:

 

Little more on this: https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/11/mariners-trade-rumors-kolten-wong-brewers.html

[jerichoholicninja]

Seattle just made a big trade for a bat and they made a couple big moves last season. Trader Jerry loves to make trades. The Mariners certainly seem like a team that's ripe for the picking, trade wise right now.

[reillymcshane]

I don't know what Wong can net in a trade, but even if the Crew deals him for a low level prospect, they save themselves $2M by picking up the option and making the trade. 

[Jopal78]

On 11/13/2022 at 2:05 PM, UpandIn said:

Ah...yes, the old, "Everyone would agree with me because I say so" argument. 

You miss the part where Tampa Bay "handed" Adames a job based on nearly identical AAA numbers? Ya know, the team we should model ourselves after?

So that's one GM just right off the top of my head. 

You probably shouldn't post things "right of the top of your head" because you're mis-remembering the facts. Adames debuted for the Rays half way through May in '18, played 3 games,  then went back to AAA. Adames didn't come up for good until mid-June in '18, and even then he split time at SS with Adeiny Hechavarria until early August when Hechavarria was traded away. 

Not even Adames was handed a job, and if you take a look at the stat sheet Adames was a significantly better hitter in the minors than Turang has been to this point.

AAA--.777 to .756

AA -- .802 to .715

A+ -- .721 to .615

A -- .790 to . 760

[UpandIn]

4 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

You probably shouldn't post things "right of the top of your head" because you're mis-remembering the facts. Adames debuted for the Rays half way through May in '18, played 3 games,  then went back to AAA. Adames didn't come up for good until mid-June in '18, and even then he split time at SS with Adeiny Hechavarria until early August when Hechavarria was traded away. 

Not even Adames was handed a job, and if you take a look at the stat sheet Adames was a significantly better hitter in the minors than Turang has been to this point.

AAA--.777 to .756

AA -- .802 to .715

A+ -- .721 to .615

A -- .790 to . 760

Dude...seriously? You're back now 4 days later to harp on this again?

I'm not arguing the semantics over getting "handed" a job. Adames produced, the Rays...as they do, didn't wanted to ensure he didn't get a full year of service time. He was made their starting SS. 

 

Also...you factoring in the rehab stints in those AAA numbers since you want to nit pick the hell out of this?

Or that Turang WOULD have spent 2020 in AA, but...ya know, Covid?

How about we just go with a more Apples to Apples comp. Production in AAA before they were called up;

Adames Numbers his LAST year in AAA before he was deemed ready

.286

.353

.412

.765

Turang this past year in AAA when he hasn't performed well enough.

 

.286

.360

.412

.772

LOL...what are you arguing right now?

I don't care what Turang DIDN'T do in AA in the year he DIDN'T play there because there WASN'T a minor league season.
I care a WHOLE lot less about what they did in A ball and I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make at this point, but...it's not landing and this is just getting old and repetitive. 

Turang has performed well in AAA. He performed better than Adames did immediately before Adames was called up and that was for the organization we should be modeling ourselves after, right?

So what's the problem?

 

 

[Jopal78]

2 minutes ago, UpandIn said:

Dude...seriously? You're back now 4 days later to harp on this again?

I'm not arguing the semantics

But yet you do, and it's hilarious to tweak you. 

[UpandIn]

4 minutes ago, Jopal78 said:

But yet you do, and it's hilarious to tweak you. 

[Axman59]

I don't think Wong will be on the Brewers roster come opening day.

[UpandIn]

6 hours ago, Axman59 said:

I don't think Wong will be on the Brewers roster come opening day.

I agree. When he had that 3 HR game and his OPS jumped 30 points, I wondered if that might be enough for us to save 2M by picking up the option and then dealing him. Teams are interested, we have Turang. It depends on what the offer is or what we could get back for him, but...kinda feels like an obvious place to go with the young guy and save 10M while also getting maybe a nice reliever back. 

Brice Miller would be an outstanding option and for that reason, a very unlikely one. BUT the Mariners are also looking for corner OF help to go with newly acquired Hernandez and Rodriguez(though...they seem set to me). 

I don't know what else we could offer, so he's probably off the table, but Matt Brash+Isaiah Campbell? That could be interesting...
Two power relievers with a second plus pitch, both are cheap? 

Who knows...seemed like this guy was gone when he had the yips in the field and was not hitting, but the final line still looks good and there aren't a lot of 2B options. And we have one of our own. 

 

[Robocaller]

13 hours ago, Jopal78 said:

But yet you do, and it's hilarious to tweak you. 

People should just ignore you.

 

[JosephC]

Wong's value should be higher than what is listed on the Trade Values site, but he's on a one-year deal at 10 million and while his numbers with the bat were way up last year, the defensive numbers were way down (actually a negative in both DRS and UZR/150).

My guess is that Wong has something like 6-8 million of surplus value on my board, and if going to the Mariners, the return would be something like RHP-Michael Morales (#23 on the MLB pipeline, 3rd round pick in 2021) and SS-Josh Hood (#29 on the MLB pipeline, 6th round pick in 2022).  As reilly already pointed out, they also save 2 million from not having to pay the buyout.

[wildcat2237]

I wouldnt be surprised if they trade Wong for a bag of balls. Saves the $2 million buyout and gets $10 million off the payroll. Likely a good move by Arnold. 

[Axman59]

10 hours ago, wildcat2237 said:

I wouldnt be surprised if they trade Wong for a bag of balls. Saves the $2 million buyout and gets $10 million off the payroll. Likely a good move by Arnold. 

 

That's what I was thinking. Andrew Friedman of the Dodgers probably has $2 million lost in his couch, but to a Matt Attanasio owned, cash-strapped team that's real money.

And with the non-tender list just out the Brewers can go dumpster diving.

[beekay414]

We'll find out the true direction of the team after we know what happens with Wong and Renfroe. If they trade Wong to save $2 Million and then move off Renfroe's ~$11 Million, they're cost cutting everywhere they can. Got a ways to go before we find out but my cost cutting spidey senses are tingling. 

[rickh150]

23 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

We'll find out the true direction of the team after we know what happens with Wong and Renfroe. If they trade Wong to save $2 Million and then move off Renfroe's ~$11 Million, they're cost cutting everywhere they can. Got a ways to go before we find out but my cost cutting spidey senses are tingling. 

Right. Will we spend more this season, having veteran avg players, to compete better this season with aces in the hole?