Article: Young Third Basemen the Brewers Should Target in a Trade

[jay87shot]

I agree with the idea that Willy should be a great at 3rd defensively, but ultimately this all comes down to Turang. The organization should know well enough if he is going to handle 2B and transition to SS or just take over right away.  I think from Willy perspective SS would be better, he has a chance(s) to win a gold glove at SS but I doubt at 3rd he would win one over Arenado or Hayes. That being said I don't think Willy would be one to make a big stink if it was best for the team.

[Joseph Zarr]

I would propose Zavier Warren is having an incredible career trajectory altering second half to 2022 (ongoing in the AFL) and is a solid 3B and is now expanding his arsenal to 1B. Just a savvy savvy smart baseball player whose advanced hit tool is finally seeing results.

Additionally, I would like to remind people Cam Devanney is the best 3B in the Brewers system. And, if we toss out post-COVID 2021 (87 Games in Double-A Biloxi) he has 189 combined games between 2019 and 2022 hitting an 0.840 OPS while absolutely raking in his 16 game late-season playoff-push promotion to Triple-A (0.306 BA/ 0.928 OPS) . His defense is undeniably elite with an incredible arm. Needs to continue working on K:BB ratio tho it certainly isn't prohibitive. 

Carry on.

 

[Joseph Zarr]

I would propose Zavier Warren is having an incredible career trajectory altering second half to 2022 (ongoing in the AFL) and is a solid 3B and is now expanding his arsenal to 1B. Just a savvy savvy smart baseball player whose advanced hit tool is finally seeing results.

Additionally, I would like to remind people Cam Devanney is the best 3B in the Brewers system. And, if we toss out post-COVID 2021 (87 Games in Double-A Biloxi) he has 189 combined games between 2019 and 2022 hitting an 0.840 OPS while absolutely raking in his 16 game late-season playoff-push promotion to Triple-A (0.306 BA/ 0.928 OPS) . His defense is undeniably elite with an incredible arm. Needs to continue working on K:BB ratio tho it certainly isn't prohibitive. 

Carry on.

 

[Robocaller]

12 hours ago, UpandIn said:

I...I don't know what type of baseball you grew up playing, but we DEFINITELY did not "hide" our our defender at 2B. 

But fine, lets go with that. It's to the left of SS. Turang is an elite defensive SS. Ergo, it's a BIT of a waste. 

 

Also, again, do people remember when we moved TRAVIS SHAW to 2B and he performed well?

Turang hasn't established himself as a better shortstop than Adames yet.

[Robocaller]

12 hours ago, UpandIn said:

I...I don't know what type of baseball you grew up playing, but we DEFINITELY did not "hide" our our defender at 2B. 

But fine, lets go with that. It's to the left of SS. Turang is an elite defensive SS. Ergo, it's a BIT of a waste. 

 

Also, again, do people remember when we moved TRAVIS SHAW to 2B and he performed well?

Turang hasn't established himself as a better shortstop than Adames yet.

[Tim Muma]

I am lost in your debate, but my quick two cents. The best option for success in 2023 & the next few years is Urias at 2B, Adames at SS, young bat at 3B, Turang as Utility. I don't believe in him every day as a hitter, but would be perfect to spell those 3 spots to get semi-regular time.

[Tim Muma]

I am lost in your debate, but my quick two cents. The best option for success in 2023 & the next few years is Urias at 2B, Adames at SS, young bat at 3B, Turang as Utility. I don't believe in him every day as a hitter, but would be perfect to spell those 3 spots to get semi-regular time.

[Brewcrew82]

41 minutes ago, Tim Muma said:

I am lost in your debate, but my quick two cents. The best option for success in 2023 & the next few years is Urias at 2B, Adames at SS, young bat at 3B, Turang as Utility. I don't believe in him every day as a hitter, but would be perfect to spell those 3 spots to get semi-regular time.

Interesting, I think his power surge this season in AAA is for real and that he looks like the second-coming of Nico Hoerner, but with better on-base skills. He's always been a guy about whom it's been said, "If he develops power, look out."

[Brewcrew82]

41 minutes ago, Tim Muma said:

I am lost in your debate, but my quick two cents. The best option for success in 2023 & the next few years is Urias at 2B, Adames at SS, young bat at 3B, Turang as Utility. I don't believe in him every day as a hitter, but would be perfect to spell those 3 spots to get semi-regular time.

Interesting, I think his power surge this season in AAA is for real and that he looks like the second-coming of Nico Hoerner, but with better on-base skills. He's always been a guy about whom it's been said, "If he develops power, look out."

[Tim Muma]

2 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Interesting, I think his power surge this season in AAA is for real and that he looks like the second-coming of Nico Hoerner, but with better on-base skills. He's always been a guy about whom it's been said, "If he develops power, look out."

Hey, I could be wrong and he may have developed just as they hoped/expected. I'm just skeptical.

[Tim Muma]

2 hours ago, Brewcrew82 said:

Interesting, I think his power surge this season in AAA is for real and that he looks like the second-coming of Nico Hoerner, but with better on-base skills. He's always been a guy about whom it's been said, "If he develops power, look out."

Hey, I could be wrong and he may have developed just as they hoped/expected. I'm just skeptical.

[UpandIn]

10 hours ago, Robocaller said:

Turang hasn't established himself as a better shortstop than Adames yet.

....and where did I suggest otherwise?

[UpandIn]

10 hours ago, Robocaller said:

Turang hasn't established himself as a better shortstop than Adames yet.

....and where did I suggest otherwise?

[UpandIn]

8 hours ago, Tim Muma said:

I am lost in your debate, but my quick two cents. The best option for success in 2023 & the next few years is Urias at 2B, Adames at SS, young bat at 3B, Turang as Utility. I don't believe in him every day as a hitter, but would be perfect to spell those 3 spots to get semi-regular time.

Ok...well, that may be, but the problem is there are VERY few 3B prospects and the MLB ready ones are particularly valuable. But we do have a SS prospect who is an outstanding defensive player. 

So I'd agree. If you could get a true 3B, a young stud, that'd be preferable. But IF you are going to start Adames, Turang and Urias, I think you maximize their values defensively by slotting them in at 3B, SS and 2B. 

The logic being Adames hands and arm will play at 3B. Turang is a excellent defensive SS and Urias has been better at 2B than 3B, but with Wong playing primarily 2B the last couple years, he hasn't gotten as much time there. 

If you add a 3rd player to the mix who's better than the other two, then the equation would change...but I think the best we're going to do at 3B is Brosseau and Jace given who's available in FA and the fact that it would appear we plan on bringing Woodruff and Burnes back(though that was David Stearns who said as much, so that is also subject to change). 
So it's really about getting your best defense on the field.


---The counter argument is that...we don't know if Adames can play 3rd. I get that. I disagree as I think his skill set translates perfectly(Certainly better than anyone else currently under contract next year). But he still hasn't actually played there in a long time...though he has played some 2B showing he can move around a bit.

Additionally, Urias is fine at 3B and the difference between him at 2nd and 3B is negligible. And Turang would be a plus defender at 2B.

Those are pretty much the two opposing views on this.

Oh, also, Adames is going to be a FA in 2 years and would lose value at 3B. Though...again, I don't agree with that as I don't think teams are going to value him less and assume that he can no longer play 3B by the time he's 29. If anything, I think his versatility would help him out. But I understand that POV, Shortstops tend to be more valuable. 

But how much more valuable will they be when you introduce the new shift and the 3B is expected to cover even more ground than he has before the shift was regulated?

 

I THINK we'd all be in agreement that bringing in a guy like...Josh Jung would be preferable. 

[UpandIn]

8 hours ago, Tim Muma said:

I am lost in your debate, but my quick two cents. The best option for success in 2023 & the next few years is Urias at 2B, Adames at SS, young bat at 3B, Turang as Utility. I don't believe in him every day as a hitter, but would be perfect to spell those 3 spots to get semi-regular time.

Ok...well, that may be, but the problem is there are VERY few 3B prospects and the MLB ready ones are particularly valuable. But we do have a SS prospect who is an outstanding defensive player. 

So I'd agree. If you could get a true 3B, a young stud, that'd be preferable. But IF you are going to start Adames, Turang and Urias, I think you maximize their values defensively by slotting them in at 3B, SS and 2B. 

The logic being Adames hands and arm will play at 3B. Turang is a excellent defensive SS and Urias has been better at 2B than 3B, but with Wong playing primarily 2B the last couple years, he hasn't gotten as much time there. 

If you add a 3rd player to the mix who's better than the other two, then the equation would change...but I think the best we're going to do at 3B is Brosseau and Jace given who's available in FA and the fact that it would appear we plan on bringing Woodruff and Burnes back(though that was David Stearns who said as much, so that is also subject to change). 
So it's really about getting your best defense on the field.


---The counter argument is that...we don't know if Adames can play 3rd. I get that. I disagree as I think his skill set translates perfectly(Certainly better than anyone else currently under contract next year). But he still hasn't actually played there in a long time...though he has played some 2B showing he can move around a bit.

Additionally, Urias is fine at 3B and the difference between him at 2nd and 3B is negligible. And Turang would be a plus defender at 2B.

Those are pretty much the two opposing views on this.

Oh, also, Adames is going to be a FA in 2 years and would lose value at 3B. Though...again, I don't agree with that as I don't think teams are going to value him less and assume that he can no longer play 3B by the time he's 29. If anything, I think his versatility would help him out. But I understand that POV, Shortstops tend to be more valuable. 

But how much more valuable will they be when you introduce the new shift and the 3B is expected to cover even more ground than he has before the shift was regulated?

 

I THINK we'd all be in agreement that bringing in a guy like...Josh Jung would be preferable. 

[Robocaller]

1 hour ago, UpandIn said:

....and where did I suggest otherwise?

That's literally the only reasonable reason for displacing Adames--if Turang would be significantly better.

[Robocaller]

1 hour ago, UpandIn said:

....and where did I suggest otherwise?

That's literally the only reasonable reason for displacing Adames--if Turang would be significantly better.

[UpandIn]

17 hours ago, SF70 said:

Turang is not an elite defensive SS, BA has him graded at 50 field and 50 arm, while MLB pipeline has him at 60 field and 55 arm. My eye-test from watching him play approximately 10 games in-stadium is above average field with a slightly above average arm, so no Adames.

Keep Adames at SS, put Turang at 2B and have Urias at 3B. Turang’s range at 2B and better arm than Urias will payoff with the shift limitations, and should also payoff with more DP’s with Turang having a must faster release than Urias.

Both fangraphs and MLB pipeline grade him as a 60 in the field. He plays SS. I'd say that's elite. 

Also...again, didn't say he was Adames(who...incidentally was graded as a 50 grade in the field and a 60 arm due to questions about his range...which would provide more credibility to him being more than capable of playing 3B FWIW). 

AGAIN...I'm talking about the cumulative effect.

Turang=Very good defensive SS. 
Adames-SHOULD be an elite 3B with his hands and his arm...which is obviously very strong.
Urias-Clearly best suited to play 2B.

So you're probably/possibly downgrading at SS a little bit and you're upgrading at both 3B and 2B. You could be well above average at all 3. 

 

They probably won't do it and nobody agrees...so this is probably just a dead subject at this point. 

[UpandIn]

17 hours ago, SF70 said:

Turang is not an elite defensive SS, BA has him graded at 50 field and 50 arm, while MLB pipeline has him at 60 field and 55 arm. My eye-test from watching him play approximately 10 games in-stadium is above average field with a slightly above average arm, so no Adames.

Keep Adames at SS, put Turang at 2B and have Urias at 3B. Turang’s range at 2B and better arm than Urias will payoff with the shift limitations, and should also payoff with more DP’s with Turang having a must faster release than Urias.

Both fangraphs and MLB pipeline grade him as a 60 in the field. He plays SS. I'd say that's elite. 

Also...again, didn't say he was Adames(who...incidentally was graded as a 50 grade in the field and a 60 arm due to questions about his range...which would provide more credibility to him being more than capable of playing 3B FWIW). 

AGAIN...I'm talking about the cumulative effect.

Turang=Very good defensive SS. 
Adames-SHOULD be an elite 3B with his hands and his arm...which is obviously very strong.
Urias-Clearly best suited to play 2B.

So you're probably/possibly downgrading at SS a little bit and you're upgrading at both 3B and 2B. You could be well above average at all 3. 

 

They probably won't do it and nobody agrees...so this is probably just a dead subject at this point. 

[UpandIn]

Just now, Robocaller said:

That's literally the only reasonable reason for displacing Adames--if Turang would be significantly better.

It's "literally" not. I "literally" articulated the reasons probably a dozen times now...

They're all readily available...it just requires reading almost any of my posts in this thread. 

[UpandIn]

Just now, Robocaller said:

That's literally the only reasonable reason for displacing Adames--if Turang would be significantly better.

It's "literally" not. I "literally" articulated the reasons probably a dozen times now...

They're all readily available...it just requires reading almost any of my posts in this thread. 

[Robocaller]

3 minutes ago, UpandIn said:

It's "literally" not. I "literally" articulated the reasons probably a dozen times now...

They're all readily available...it just requires reading almost any of my posts in this thread. 

I said reasonable. There are an infinite number of bad reasons one could conceive.

 

[Robocaller]

3 minutes ago, UpandIn said:

It's "literally" not. I "literally" articulated the reasons probably a dozen times now...

They're all readily available...it just requires reading almost any of my posts in this thread. 

I said reasonable. There are an infinite number of bad reasons one could conceive.

 

[UpandIn]

17 minutes ago, Robocaller said:

I said reasonable. There are an infinite number of bad reasons one could conceive.

 

Improving your IF defense as a whole while maybe or MAYBE not improving your SS defense...is very reasonable. 

21 minutes ago, UpandIn said:

this is probably just a dead subject at this point.

But AGAIN as I said(a few times now)...this has been discussed ad nauseum and I'm...pretty much done with it.  

[UpandIn]

17 minutes ago, Robocaller said:

I said reasonable. There are an infinite number of bad reasons one could conceive.

 

Improving your IF defense as a whole while maybe or MAYBE not improving your SS defense...is very reasonable. 

21 minutes ago, UpandIn said:

this is probably just a dead subject at this point.

But AGAIN as I said(a few times now)...this has been discussed ad nauseum and I'm...pretty much done with it.